Okay, just about every thing I've read about restaurants where people eat - it's like "Very reasonable, $100 for two" Or really inexpensive - $50 for two. Never in my life have I spent $25 for a meal and sorry I don't believe I've missed out. I've eaten very well. Even if I have been deprived, it is just not in me to spend that kind of money on one meal even if I had it, which I don't.
For me, $12 to $15 a meal is a RARE, expensive treat. $8-$10 is what we usually spend when we go to eat.
Am I going to be stuck eating sandwhiches and pizza the whole time I'm in Italy if I'm not prepared to spend $20 on a meal (forget about $50)
Are there any resources for what I consider "reasonable" eating?
Joelle
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Posts: 119 | Location: Iowa, USA | Registered: 06 March 2003
Hi I just read your post and was wondering if you have looked at any of the Rick Steves books. He seems to have places to stay and eat, that have good food, and are reasonable. You do have to realize that you are in Italy and things are more expensive there. We also have chain restuarants here and you don't see that very much in Italy. If you haven't looked at any of his books, he does have a website, I think it's Ricksteves.com I hope this helps! kam1
I think that people who post about special dining experiences on the board don't necessarily eat expensive meals all the time, but write about those which are memorable to them. In cities or resorts, of course, restaurants tend to be more expensive, although not always. Eating in Italy is perhaps taken more seriously than it is in the U.S., although this is a generalization which certainly isn't universal. But as a statistic, Italians spend more of their budgets on food than we do, don't eat frozen or microwaved foods (though things are changing, unfortunately), and are more attentive to fresh ingredients and well-prepared food. Having said that, throughout Italy there are many opportunities to eat well without spending a lot of money. Most restaurants post their menus in the front window, with prices, and you can eat well in simple places. The euro/dollar exchange rate has made everything more expensive for non-euro visitors, but having accepted that, in most restaurants and trattorias, you can order a primo, or first course, and a dessert, or whatever you want, and pace your pocketbook that way. You'll notice also that in general Italians are not overweight. That is because they eat well but sanely and they walk a lot.
Posts: 2054 | Location: Suburban Philadelphia | Registered: 08 July 2002
In first place, Italy has lived through a wild inflactive season for the past couple of years, which has mainly involved the food. This means that both self-catering and cheap meals prices have been raising. As a funny paradox, medium and high priced places have been keeping their prices more or less fixed or even lowered them a bit. Also, any place that offers full meals for 25-30 euro will happily also offer a primo and a water bottle for much less: you don't have to eat full meals at every meal (or you will end up nicely rounded by the end of the first week in italy) everywhere you go. For instance, one of the places I have reviewed is Baja Sardinja in Milano, where a full meal with a primo, a fish secondo, a dessert and wine costs 25 euro, in average. Yet, their portions are really huge and one can be very satisfied with just a primo, or a couple could share a primo and a secondo and not feel hungry (last time I went there I was served a 30 cm fish all for myself... BURP!). Also, food prices are not even. Usually touristic cities have the highiest prices, Milano is very costly, but Rome is much cheaper as long as you keep off the "bus tours" area where a panino or a slice of bad pizza may cost you like a regular lunch of primo and contorno in a cheap off-the-beaten-track area! Quite obviously, you may even go for cheaper meals. Good palces where to find cheap food are bakeries. There are bakeries everywhere, and they usually offer a selection of pizza, quiches and other "torte salate", focaccia (plain or topped with vegetables) and also sweets (cakes, pies, etc.). Bars usually offer panini and, sometimes, small meals called "piattini", but for the most part these are more costly and worse than those you can have fixed yourself by first buying bread at a bakery and than looking for a "salumiere" or "salumeria" and have the bread filled with whatever kind of prosciutto or salame or cheese you want. Supermarkets do not yet have the huge selection of picnic foods offered in the UK, where self-catering the lunch is a habit, but you can easily buy salads deady to garnish with oil and salt or other foods (this is usually my meal when I am at the office). Than there are rosticceria that offer handheld foods like "panzerotti" (bread filled with mozzarella, tomato sauce and prosciutto), supplì (in Rome, fried rice balls with a selection of fillings) or even panini with lampredotto (tripe, traditional in Florence), which all grant you a filling meal for 3-4 euro. Yet another nice option are the several kebab places that you can find in the large cities. Finally, there are fast-foods. You can obviously hit a MacDonalds, soince they are ubiquitous. Than there are the pizza-serving Spizzico and a few others. Yet, a more tasty (although not high quality) option are the self-service chains like "Ciao" or "Brek", where you can arrange a meal for 8-10 euro (be careful with the extras!). My usual solution, when I am on holiday in a non-self-catering place is to limit full meals to dinner, and have a breakfast (at home I usually skip it: eating early in the morning makes me feel kinda sick!) and a light lunch (a slice of focaccia and a fruit will do). In any case, make sure you visit at least a couple of decent restaurants during your stay.
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There are usually good tourist menu's or Prix fix.. often cheaper for lunch! some places near my house are 9 Euro! for first course, main course water and coffee.
I also agree, pastry shops/forno's...have sweet and savory items.
Self service buffets, allow you to take what you want ( usually pre portioned, not help yourself! Often more expensive that restaurants but you can order one thing, still not looked upon well in most places...
I agree with you that many of the reviews I've read rate a restaurant as "moderate" or "quite reasonable" when it looks like a budget buster to me! For instance, I took a look at the NYC restaurants recommended by other Slow Travellers, and had to laugh -- I've lived in NYC for 15 years, and my fiancé has lived here all his life, and neither of us has ever eaten in most of these places. If we spent this kind of money going out to dinner, we'd never have any money to travel with!
On the other hand, people are probably more likely to splurge on a "once in a lifetime" meal when they are on vacation, than when they are looking for dinner out on Friday night in their hometown.
Overall, I think there are two things to keep in mind here: location and culture.
Of course there are exceptions to the location rule, but in general, things are less expensive away from large cities and/or major tourist attractions.
For instance, I notice you live in Iowa, where it is doubtless quite possible to eat well for under $10 per person. In New York City, where I live, this is also possible, but requires quite a bit more creativity if you want table service, don't want just sandwiches and pizza, and if you are planning to stay in the more touristed areas of Manhattan (as opposed to travelling to some of the residential neighborhoods away from the city center). (I assume for the sake of argument that we are staying away from fast food and chain restaurants altogether.)
Assume that any restaurant sitting conveniently next to any large tourist attraction is going to be way more expensive than a similar restaurant located even a few streets away on a less-travelled block.
Restaurants in mostly residential areas away from the city center will usually (though not always) have lower prices than similar establishments in the tourist/business district.
Restaurants where you share tables with others, where there are no tablecloths, and where the menu is limited to a few local dishes, are USUALLY much less expensive than the places where you have a table with a tablecloth all to yourselves, and an extensive menu from which to choose. (The exception is where such a restaurant is touted as "tourist experience".)
Given two restaurants that are in other ways absolutely equal, the one that doesn't have English-speaking staff or translated menus is likely to be less expensive.
In each of the above cases, eating in the less expensive restaurant does NOT mean sacrificing food quality, though you may be sacrificing convenience, service, and/or ambience.
There are cultural differences to consider, too:
In Italy, the price of your meal also includes, for lack of a better term, the rental of your table. For example, an outdoor table at a cafe will be more expensive than an indoor table, which in turn will be more expensive than sitting at a bar. Also, in many places, they EXPECT you to spend 2 - 3 hours at your table, so many establishments will have only one seating for lunch or dinner. This will make the prices higher than at a place where the tables are turned over 3 and 4 times a night.
In many places in Italy, service and tax are included in the bill -- items that, at least in NYC, would add 25 - 30% to the final tab. If the prices seem a little higher to begin with, you can at least console yourself with the thought that there are no hidden extras.
Pizza in Italy is different from pizza in the U.S. -- and I don't mean the flavor or style, though that is different, too. In New York, if you ask for a pizzeria, you will be directed to a place where you order a slice or a pie at the counter, and then either take your food out, or go and sit at a formica table and pull your napkins from a little aluminum dispenser. In Italy, take-out pizza can be had from a tavola calda or pizza rustica, but a pizzeria is usually an informal restaurant (with table service and wine glasses) that also serves pastas and salads and inexpensive (often local) wines. You can eat quite well at a pizzeria in Italy and never actually eat pizza, if that is your aim (but you'll be missing out on something special if you don't at least try some, especially south of Rome!!)
Final tips:
As some others have already mentioned, you can always share meals ("uno per due" or "uno per tre"). If you don't want to share, you could ask if it's possible to order a half-portion ("una mezza porzione") -- a good tactic for children, too.
You could also eat your "big" meal at lunchtime, and go lighter for dinner. Some (not all) restaurants have less expensive lunch menus.
Finally, we had good luck finding inexpensive and tasty dining options by asking locals for recommendations. In our experience, asking high school/college students and/or older people (like 65+) produced the best results. Here are a couple of useful phrases (using my grade-school Italian!):
Dov'e un buon pizzeria? (Where's a good pizzeria?)
Dov'e un buon ristorante economico qui vicino? (Where's a good cheap restaurant nearby?)
Dov'e un buon ristorante non per turisti? (Where's a good non-touristy restaurant?)
If your experience is anything like ours, everywhere you go, the food will be great, no matter the price!
Posts: 42 | Location: New York City | Registered: 27 January 2004
Joelle, where are you going and where are you staying? One way to make it cheaper and more convenient and still stay in a great place would be to stay in an Argiturismo(farm accomodation) Many have half board where breakfast and dinner is included.What is your daily budget for room and board? The difference between the US and Italy is eating is a major event and one of the most important bonding and family rituals and not just on holidays.where else in the world can you hear blue collar workers talk for an hour about which is the best cheese or wine? Go to the market and buy something to cook and you start a heated discussion about how to cook it with many participating.For many here in the US food is just a neccesity not one of the primary joys of life. RR
I'm staying in Sorrento, Rome, Florence and Venice and will not have a car. I have two teenage kids and I don't think fancy seafood places would appeal to them anyway. I do plan to eat a lot of pizza (one of the reasons I chose Italy for our European trip is my teenaged son is a very picky eater but he will eat pizza) - I was just getting worried if any sit down restaurant was going to cost me a fortune.
I do know things are cheaper in Iowa so I didn't mention all the cafes around here where you can get a hearty hot beef dinner for under $5.00 I know that's not the reality in most places ;-)
I was just getting a little nervous from reading a lot reviews where my idea of "reasonable" was very different.
Joelle
Posts: 119 | Location: Iowa, USA | Registered: 06 March 2003
I think that you should pick up the Let's Go Guide to Italy which focuses on students and backpackers. They will have recommendations for the least expensive tavola calda, sandwich shops, pizzerias, and cafeterias. They will give you hints for find cafeterias called "mensas"--some run by universities, some by municipal governments--where inexpensive meals can be gotten.
Rick Steves will also have some eating recommendations that will serve you well as will the Rough Guide.
I think you are going to have to budget very, very carefully and maintain constant vigilance in order to meet your target...you are at a great disadvantage because of the weakness of the dollar against the Euro. Two years ago, the same price in Euros would have been 25% cheaper in dollars.
That being said, picnics at lunch will help stretch your food budget.
In Vnezia, one of my favorite restaurants, Da Pinto has a number of fixed menu's and single plates in your price range. When Kay and I go there, we concentrate on the fresh seafood and so our price is higher. You will need to be careful shoppers but you will have no problem.
We ate at Orso 80 in Roma where you can get a feast of antipasti for €11 a person and you will waddle away from the table. Luzzi, on the street leading from the Coloseo to San Clemente will fill your needs as well.
There is an incredible middle eastern restaurant across the street from a sandwich shop near the famous wine bar Antice Noe in Firenze. Casalinga also comes to mind. Nerbonne in the Mercato Centrale is high on the velue scale. And if you are in the Chianti, Bar Orso in Monteriggioni is a steal.
In Sorrento, you can eat at Il Giardino in the old town for not a lot of money.
I have not established a daily budget for food, That's what I'm trying to do. $10 maybe be low for a meal - but two meals x 3 of us - that's $60 a day just to eat?? and that's low? I live in a different world.
We are staying in an apt both in Rome and Venice for a week and I expect to be able to make some meals. I'm a good cook and I make good pasta so I expect to be able to make some nice meals and we probably will do the sandwhich and pizza thing. We'll be gone 3 weeks that's a long time to eat out.
I know I have to be careful about food because that's what killed us on a trip to Washington DC a few years ago. We also had a kitchen but we were so dang tired everyday I hardly felt like cooking and quite a few times we were so tired of looking that we stopped at the first cool, sit down and wait on you restaurant we could find and there were times I came pretty darn close to spending $20 for a meal. This time if I spend that much I want it to be because it was planned, not because we were too tired and hungry to keep looking.
I just figured after air and accomodations my original budget leaves me less than 150 Euro a day to eat, and sightsee and buy souvineers. (Although my kids have some gift money for that sort of thing) but that's not counting train tickets, and some tours I wanted to add. Oh my. This is gonna cost more than I thought.
Oh well.
Joelle
Joelle
Posts: 119 | Location: Iowa, USA | Registered: 06 March 2003
Hi Joelle, My husband, daughter and I just returned from Venice last night. We ate at 2 pizzerias that would be within your budget.
The first one was Pier Dickens in Santa Marguerita Square. The 3 of us ordered 2 pizzas for around 7 Euros each. This was plenty for us, but we are not big eaters.
The second one was Ae Oche.The pizza was about the same price here. Both places were very good.
If you want to eat cheap, don't order any drinks. These really add up. You cannot get tap water, they will bring you bottled water which costs 2-3 euro. A carafe of wine is around 6-8 euro. We usually did order the house wine with dinner and my daughter had the bottled water. However, we carry a bottle of water filled with tap water and could easily have drank that after the meal.
We also ate dinner at Da Sandro for 28 Euro for all 3 of us. I had the prix fixe meal for 15 euro. My daughter just ordered an appetizer and I shared with her. My husband had a plat.
Eat lots of gelato for dessert! They are usually 1 euro per dip. It is excellent and it is fun to try all the different flavors.
You may need to expand your food budget a bit, but if you cook in the apartment once in a while and eat at inexpensive restaurants I think you should be able to keep your food budget at $60-$70 a day or less.
Joelle, I think I live in your area. If you would like to call me,just leave me a private message and I will email you my phone number. I may be able to give you some suggestions to help save some money in Venice. I think my teens are around the same age as yours. Make sure to get them a Rolling Venice Pass when you arrive. Have a great time! Laurie
Posts: 520 | Location: Near Des Moines, Iowa | Registered: 04 February 2003
A few more thoughts. 1. Mense are cheap but often enough they are also quite disgusting. When I was a student I would not eat there, even if it was extremely cheap, because the few times that I did I didn't only find the food to be disgusting (once even smelly!), but also to be often enough really low quality. I mean, I can elaborate nearly any food, but that stuff just sat in my stomach for a day! 2. Ethnic restaurants can be a good idea. You can usually eat cheap at Indian and Chinese and at kebab places (sometimes they are simple take away places, sometimes they also serve more elaborate stuff in a restaurants room), but check on prices before ordering. 3. Getting up after taking a look at the menu may be not too well-mannered, but you are not forced to pay as long as you haven't touched anything that sits on the table: if you ahve broken open a packet of "grissini" (bread stick), than you will be asked to pay "coperto", which is a 2-3 euro fee for sitting at the table (it pays for the bread, the cleaning of linen and cutlery, etc.). 4. No tipping! In italy it is not custmary to tip. service people are fully paid by the resturant owner, so that you are not required to leave a tip. If the service has been particularly good, than leave a total of no more than 4 euro (one uero per person) and this only in regular resturants or pizzerie, never in less formal places. If you stand up and pay at the counter you will notice that the person who receives the money will give you back exactly the change. Let me say it again: you are not required to tip service is included. 5. Even if you are tired and do not feel like cooking, you can aorder a pizza from a chain like Tipico or Runnerpizza or buy something from a rosticceria or a salumeria which perpare cooked food. It will cost you more than cooking from scrap, but less than eating out. Also, many regular pizzeria offer a take-away service.
Given how often you will be staying in an apartment, I'd make lunch the main meal and 'picnic' in the evening at home. I know what you mean about being too tired at the end of a day to want to really cook!
I think your budget of €150 a day for 3 people will work out fine. You will need to look at how you spend your money to be sure, but there is just so much to do that won't cost you much at all.
In Venezia, buy the Chorus pass for €8 each. This gives you admission to 20 churches that together have the most incredible art collection of Venezia. It will take 2 or 3 days for you to see all of them. San Marco is free and well worth it. Walking and avoiding the Vaporetti will also save money. You will need to do at least one Vaproetto ride alont the grand canale and I think a trip to Torcello and back will reward you far beyond its expense.
As for eating, La Marca in the Rialto vegetable market has wonderful panini for €3 each that can be had to go or eaten standing up. Da Pinto for your splurge meal. Try Sahara in Cannaregio for a middle eastern meal at a low price. Crostini at Gli Schiavoni on Rio San Trovaso. Gelato at Paolin and Nico (do not sit or you will pay more).
Go to the Rialto market in the morning and get the makings of a picnic: fruit, veggies, meats and cheeses, as well as the makings for dinner. Go back to your apartment, put together your picnic and make the basics of dinner- cook of and marinate some veggies, wash greens for a salad etc. Make a little extra on the veggies to have left overs for the next day's picnic lunch. That way, at the end of the day, you will only have to put together a pasta or a secondo, and have a nice meal.
In Rome, do spend the money to go to the Vatican Museum. It is well worth it. But after than, save your money and just wander. Devote a day to the Archeobus which will take you all over the area around the Via Appia Antica letting you hop on and off at any stop. Just be at Piazza di Bocca della Verita at 10am and get on the first bus. Most of the attractions along the way are free. You will ahve to pay to go into the Catacombs but I recall that being only €4. Be sure to see the Cave of the Martyrs which is just up the street from San Callisto. This will be a wonderful day for under €20-25 a person if you pack a picnic lunch.
The Trastevere district of Roma is full of little shops with Pizza and take away food for not a lot of money. Bread and cheese can be put together cheaply and you eat well.
You will be able to do similar plans in any Italian city you chose.
Osterias are ofter quite cheap and have good food.Also there is no pressure to order more. Also the food is ready and it can be a quick lunch or dinner.I don't know if anyone posted this but it is typical for restaurant meals to take 2 hours or more,eating is at a much slower pace than here.One Osteria I remember in Venice Leon Bianco,Does anyone know the address,i will search.RR
One last good food resource that just come to my mind are bars that offer "happy hour" or "aperitivo" if you hit the right place, at the cost of one drink (alchoolic, lightly alchoolic, or even just a soft cocktail of fruit juices for the kids) you can serve yourself as many times as you want from the buffet, which often includes pasta. With 4-7 euro per person you can fix yourself a small dinner meal.
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