Hello All -

First I wanted to thank EVERYONE on this board for all their great advice. I come on everyday just to check the new topics. Secondly, I want to say that I booked cellphones with CellularAbroad today and did mention Slow Travelers and got a $10.00 discount. The people were great there.


Now, on to my actual questions. I am trying to come up with a travel budget (this means the money that I'll need while in Italy). I have read Bob the Navigator's travel budget for 2005 but I'm trying to get a per person cost. This is not only for my family but we've had an addition to our party and her parents need to know how much money to send with her.

I'm not including airfare (already have paid), car rental (also already have paid) or hotels or villa. This is because I already have them figured in and also because our addition will not have to pay for these.

Anyway, for my family I'll need tolls, gas, food and drink, gelato and cappuccino and misc. extras. We are arriving in Rome on 6/30 - taking a shuttle (have figured in) to our hotel, picking up a rental car the next day, driving from Rome to Arezzo to our Villa. We will buy groceries for breakfasts in the morning, going to markets for picnic lunches and then going out to eat for dinner. We will need money for train fare to Florence to times, to Venice one time (I know it's far but FAMILY WOULD NOT GIVE UP trip to Venice). The rest of the time we will be driving to: Siena, Lucca, San Gi., Pisa, Montepulciano, Cortona, Viareggio Beach. Did I mention that we don't leave until 7/16 to go back to Rome?

So, with all that information, does anyone have any guesses about how much I should alot for food, drink, gelato (EVERYDAY!), cappuccino (EVERYDAY!), tourism, gas and tolls? Please help me!

Thanks so much Jennifer

Well, you could budget $40 a day for food... along the lines of the Food Network TV show by that name. And then allow a little extra for sightseeing and transportation costs.

-Krista

Yeah, but Krista Food Network did that show back when the exchange rate was like 86 cents to the Euro, so today that would be more like $60 a day. And that was just food - didn't include tours, gasoline, etc.

With all your moving around, 150 euro a day, minimum. Gas is expensive! It'll cost 100 euro to fill a meidum size car up.

You can go online at http://www.trenitalia.com to figure out the train ticket costs between Arezzo and Florence and Arezzo and Venice.

As jnini says, gas is expensive. Her estimate to fill up a tank is right on (it cost us €46 for a half a tank of diesel fuel for an Alfa Romeo sedan last month) - but we don't know how many people you have splitting that cost.

Jnini & Colleen, I have to take issue with your car refuelling figures. Over Easter we did a lot of driving through Italy (from the San Gottardo down to Puglia, and back up through Umbria to Monte Bianco). I was keeping a careful record of the costs, and I can tell you that the 3 times we refuelled in Italy averaged out at €56. That's for a tankful of diesel (running until the refuel light came on), in a car (Mazda 6 estate) which is medium/large by European standards (about the same size as a VW Passat, to name a more familiar model). Even the biggest Mercedes wouldn't take €100 worth!

Jonathan

Well, Jonathan, I don't know what to say except that I have a receipt for €46 for diesel fuel from an AGIP station off the autoroute to Siracusa, and the tank was around 1/2 full when we stopped.

Maybe the Alfa has a bigger tank than your Mazda? I can't tell from the receipt how many liters the €46 represents...

The wonders of Google come up with 63L for the Alfa 156's tank, and 64 for the Mazda!! Curioser and curioser... I've never driven an Alfa, but I've certainly had cars where the fuel indicator spends ages in the fuller half of the indication and then plummets down for the emptier half: i.e when it says half full it's actually rather less. And for mainland Italian prices (maybe diesel is more expensive on Sicily?) €46 is around 44L.

All a bit nit-picking, maybe - but I still think jnini's original figure was unduly pessimistic!

Jonathan

Oh Goodie, word problems.

The VW Golf holds 14.5 gallons or 54.88 liters. Gas, from the CNN world survey here, March 2005 is $5.96 in Milan. I’ll bet it’s a bit more out of the city, let’s say $6.16 a gallon or $1.63 a liter. One could expect to pay $89.32 to fill an empty tank, or 68.7 euro.

The Golf GLS 2L manual gets 31 mpg high way and 24 city, split the difference 27.5 mpg average.

One Way Florence Rome 280K or 173 miles or 6.5 gallons or 24.5 liters or $40 or 30 euro.

Florence to Lucca Siena Arezzo (all about the same) round trip 150K or 93 miles for 3.5 gallons or 13.25 liters for $21.56 or 16 euro.


$10.00, or 8 euro will get you 44.5 miles or 71.6 kilometers at 27.5 mpg
$25.00 or 16 euro will get you 111.6 miles or 179 kilometers at 27.5 mpg
$50.00 or 38.5 euro will get you 223 miles or 359.37 kilomers at 27.5 mpg
Fill it up please at $90 will get you 398.75 miles or 641 kilometers at 27.5 mpg

Tootle forth with vigor!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Robert&Kerri,

Don't short yourself on your gelato budget! Figure at least 3 Euros (5 Euros if you want a seat with a view!) per person per gelato stop; and you'll probably want at least TWO (three?) gelato stops per day!

Gas is currently about Euro 1.20 per litre. IF you go when the station is open and IF you use the correct credit card, you will probably get the best exchange rate.
When I change money other ways I figure about 35% lost including the fees and spread. My bank does not charge for ATM use so that is cheaper yet.
That brings us to a real cost of nearly US$8 per gallon! US$7.76.
Still, if there are 4 in the car...

I don't know about gas or tolls, so will just look at the other items.

Some tourist sites can be quite expensive, particularly if you go for the (usually-recommended) audiophones and/or reservations. Also, you may want to take some guided walks or tours with various tour companies. And you'll probably want to donate when you visit churches, if there isn't a straight-out entry fee. On the plus side, students are often charged much less.

It sounds like you are taking it slow, but on the other hand you want to be generous with this part of your budget so you don't miss out. So say 15 Euros per day per person for tourism.

For food, I'd guesstimate the following, based on what you have said and on adult portions per person: 4E for breakfast, 7E for lunch, 25-35E for dinner, and 8E for gelato, cappucino, and any other snack or drinks.

Misc. extras: 5E per day

You could do with less, and you may end up doing so, but best to be prepared with the possibility of spending more.

Thanks to ALL! I didn't realize gas was so expensive there and we're complaining about $2.34 per gallon? Anyway, this helps. If I have 2-3 gelatos a day I'm going to GAIN all the weight back that I've LOST!

So lets see approx.:
$5.00 per day per person for breakfast
$10.00 per day per person for lunch
$45.00 per day per person for dinner
$10.00 per day per person for gelato/cappuccino
$6.50 per day per person for extras
$20.00 per day per person for tourism
So this means that my estimate of $100.00 per day per person is pretty good. Of course, this doesn't include any "serious shopping".

For the gas what do you think about estimating $300.00 per family for the 2 weeks? This would give us $600.00 for our driving travel. Incidentally, we have 2 families and a 9 person manual van - could be diesel they said. Doesn't diesel get better mpg? For tolls I was looking at $200.00 per family. I always try to over estimate so we have plenty of money. If we come home with some - Yea right

I thank you all for the info. Any other suggestions?

Jennifer

quote:

All a bit nit-picking, maybe - but I still think jnini's original figure was unduly pessimistic!
Jnini & Colleen, I have to take issue with your car refuelling figures. Over Easter we did a lot of driving through Italy (from the San Gottardo down to Puglia, and back up through Umbria to Monte Bianco). I was keeping a careful record of the costs, and I can tell you that the 3 times we refuelled in Italy averaged out at €56. That's for a tankful of diesel

Diesel is cheaper if I recall and not all cars take diesel.
Gas is expensive. I don't see the nit-picking beign worthwhile if you are talking 20 euro difference.

Original poster--plan a lot for gas. If you drive a lot, if you are on hilly roads, etc.

Jennifer, I suspect you'll make a bit of a saving on tolls. Last month I drove from the top of Italy to the bottom, and back again, nearly all of it on autostrade. Total cost for the 1500+ miles: €105.

BTW, jnini, the price differential between diesel and petrol has almost disappeared now: it's not what it was a few years ago. Diesel cars still use less fuel, but that's another issue!

Jonathan

BTW--just as an aside, the news two or three nights ago had the price of fuel laid out for all countries pre-tax. Italy, $2.07 (I think it was all converted to dollars also) and USA, $2.02.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by decobabe:
Gas is currently about Euro 1.20 per litre.
That brings us to a real cost of nearly US$8 per gallon! US$7.76.QUOTE]

If you are exchanging money without bank fees at your ATM you should be currently getting 1.3029, or 1% visa charge over the spot of 1.29. At 1.20 per litre the price is $5.91 (1.2 x 3.7854 l/g for $4.5425 x 1.3029 exchange rate is $5.92 yankee greenbacks for a gallon of fuel). Your milage may vary.

We budgeted 35 euro for lunches and 75 euro for dinner, but we won't have wine with our meals and prefer meat and potatoe (or is that game and pasta?)trattoria's to upscale trendy Sunset magazine type eateries where they place the plate down and it looks like someone beat you to the meal.

Kerri found out yesterday her local credit union is going to charge her 25 dollars per ATM withdrawal to access her cash while in Italy. You can bet that card is staying home.

Cheers.

We get by on about 100/day not counting gas and lodging but that is for two of us! some days are more expensive but I am figuring the average.This trip- Two full days in Rome will be 150-200/day for the two of us.But we have days in the Maremma,for example hiking days where we might have simple food, picnic etc where it will be 50-100.This does not count any items purchased
like gifts,wine etc. That is a seperate budget.RR

The way I figured it is this:
Gas $300.00 per family (2 families)
Tolls $200.00 per family (and according to Jonathan that's way way tooo much - guess I get to shop more )
Train Fare I figured from the site
The hotels, villa and shuttles I have actual prices. I have put all this money aside in their appropriate envelopes. Then I took you alls figures for breakfast, lunch, dinner, gelato/cappuccino, extras and tourism and broke that down into a daily per person budget. This averaged out to 96.50 per person per day. So I rounded it to $100.00 per person/day. Like I said the other stuff I already have set aside. I hope this works. I'll be putting the money (most of it) in my account and using my debit card. Of course we'll have charge cards for anything big or extra. Just don't want to get cash advances from them.

jen

quote:

Originally posted by Robert&Kerri:
...Kerri found out yesterday her local credit union is going to charge her 25 dollars per ATM withdrawal to access her cash while in Italy. You can bet that card is staying home. ...

Wow! Talk about price gouging. Good thing she checked before your trip, isn't it??

Gelato costs will vary widely depending on where you are.
The same cup costs 3 Euro in the centre of Assisi and 1.30 in the nearby village of Santa Maria degli Angeli. Try to avoid central square ice-cream shops and cafes.

Dinner in a trattoria in our area is about 20 Euro
a medium restaurant is 30-35 depending on wine selction
With 45 Euro per person you buy a relatively upmarket meal.

Cappuccino costs 1.20 euro if you stand at the counter, generally twice as much if you sit.

The standard fare for a tour guide here for up to 12 people is 95 Euro per tour. It will be less with larger groups.

I have a medium diesel car (Landrover SUV) and I spend about 60 euro per 700 km. If you try to drive as much as possible on relatively high gears, you save a lot of money. Takes a bit of practice if you are not used to stick driving.

Airco uses loads of gas, so do not use it unless you are really too warm in the car. Opening the car-windows is more economical, particularly if you are dirving slowly. On highways at high speed it is better to use the airco, though.

Jennifer & Mike...

I just got off the plane today from 3 weeks in Italy.. Primarily Tuscany... My car rental for 10 days was 300.00 Euros... it was a diesel.... I put on 1250 kms.... total gas (diesel) 61 liters... price...1.13 euros/liter... total diesel cost.... 70 Euros... total Autostrada tolls.. approx. 15 Euros travelling around Tuscany.. that would account for about 350 kms. on the autostrada... To give you an idea, I talked to a fellow who had driven on the Autostrada from Rome to Florence and he paid 12-13 Euros in road tolls. My car was a Renault Clio diesel.. the mileage was approx. 20 kms/liter.

Gas is about 1.23 euros/liter.. I think that probably the diesel cars get better mileage than the gas....how much better I don't know....

I hope this helps...

Mike

I'm terrible. I don't budget at all. I get there and just work it out as I go along. I think I average about 100 euros a day, including my hotel, when I'm really good And I mean really good.
I will add my two cents and say I rented a Nissan Micra this past Summer and the mileage was fantastic. I seemed to recall paying about 35 euros every time I filled it up. It went a long way...

How confusing this all is! But--are you slow traveling? If so, are you doing any cooking in? If so, that will cut some of your costs, considerably. Also, what about lunch time "picnics"--if for not any other reason than it's so much fun to shop for them.

As others have said, be sure to specify that you want a diesel burning vehicle.

All this great information! Lets see - we plan on going to the grocery store and getting breakfast "stuff". My crowd is big on American style breakfasts. Then for lunch we plan on picnicing. We want fresh breads, meats, cheeses, fruits and of course wine. We plan on going out to trattorias for dinners. We love finding the "locals" hangouts and going back sometimes 3, 4, 5 times or more to these if they're good. Aren't they supposed to be cheaper anyway? We will also cook in on either local travel days or rest days. We will have a full kitchen and outside grill.

I'm thinking that I've over estimated for tolls in my budget. Probably WAY over estimated by the comments above. I guess this'll leave me more money for Gelato!

I have a totally off the wall question. Does anyone know if you need any special vaccinations to go to Italy? A grandmother said her friends had to have them to go 2-3 years ago. Anyway, I'll do a search and look.

Thanks Again for all the great info. 11 Weeks from today we LEAVE and we CAN'T WAIT!

Jen

Italy is a western country.Vacinations were not required a few years ago or a few decades ago.RR

Regardless of where you are, east or west, you should get up to date vaccinations. Going abroad is a great time to ensure you are protected. Men should get a tetnus and diptherea shot every 10 to 12 years. TB and polio are both on the rise in the world at alarming rates. Most public health clinics will give you booster and vaccinations free, or you can use your provider of choice. Take time to do this! There are some VERY nasty bugs in the big bad world and they are traveling around the globe at alarming rates as the planet shrinks.