"All She Was Worth" by Miyuki Miyabe===================
Colleen: Hi Nancy - welcome. Before we get started on the book discussion, let's review the question of our next book. Should it be John Berendt's book? Or one "from the hat"?
2006-01-22 17:39:32.0
Sandra Pierce: I'm all for Angels
2006-01-22 17:39:35.0
suncoast: The City of Falling Angels
2006-01-22 17:39:36.0
Motherjudy: Yes Berendt's is my vote, since I'm anxious to read it..
2006-01-22 17:39:38.0
BGE: YES! Berendt's book!
2006-01-22 17:39:40.0
Earline: I vote for Angels
2006-01-22 17:39:41.0
KHB: sounds good to me
2006-01-22 17:39:46.0
BGE: love it totally!
2006-01-22 17:39:46.0
kaydee: I just got my copy-- I'd love to read it with the group.
2006-01-22 17:39:48.0
ciaofornow: yep read it
2006-01-22 17:39:49.0
Marian: I vote for one from the hat
2006-01-22 17:39:50.0
Colleen C: I vote for city.
2006-01-22 17:39:51.0
jgk: Concensus
2006-01-22 17:39:58.0
jgk: woops
2006-01-22 17:40:02.0
kaydee: Marian, are you okay with that?
2006-01-22 17:40:06.0
Sheena: Me too as I already have it! Angels that is.
2006-01-22 17:40:08.0
Marian: Sure
2006-01-22 17:40:11.0
BGE: oh, pull one from the hat for fun...see what it is...
2006-01-22 17:40:18.0
jgk: We're so civilized
2006-01-22 17:40:18.0
Sandra Pierce: Thanks Marian!
2006-01-22 17:40:24.0
BGE: we try, Jan
2006-01-22 17:40:25.0
Marian: I'm already reading three other books, so if I don't like that one I'll ignore it
2006-01-22 17:40:33.0
Colleen: Actually, this works out ... because I'm in Dallas and forgot the list and the hat.
2006-01-22 17:40:33.0
Marian: Thanks for asking
2006-01-22 17:40:35.0
jgk: always
2006-01-22 17:40:36.0
Sandra Pierce: Maybe if it is good, it can be for March.
2006-01-22 17:40:43.0
kaydee: Love it Colleen!
2006-01-22 17:40:45.0
BGE: Perfect!
2006-01-22 17:41:04.0
Colleen: Sorry - I DO have the list on my computer and could have closed my eyes and pointed!
2006-01-22 17:41:06.0
Earline: Hey, my butt's already getting numb.
2006-01-22 17:41:06.0
KHB: it would be nice to know what we'll be reading for March so we'll have extra time to get it...
2006-01-22 17:41:11.0
Sheena: Ah the honesty 1 You could have got away with that one!
2006-01-22 17:41:25.0
BGE: It's interesting how the pencil keeps jabbing our heads when we are writing...
2006-01-22 17:41:32.0
Marian: So, do we think the lack of a male changes the view of the book?
2006-01-22 17:41:33.0
BGE: weird
2006-01-22 17:41:40.0
jgk: Yeah, it's good to be one book ahead
2006-01-22 17:41:41.0
Marian: Not in my opinion
2006-01-22 17:41:46.0
suncoast: Yes, I do.
2006-01-22 17:41:48.0
Colleen: I get home Friday - Saturday I'll pull a name out and post it for the MARCH book - how's that?
2006-01-22 17:41:56.0
KHB: wonderful!
2006-01-22 17:41:57.0
BGE: ok, works for me
2006-01-22 17:41:58.0
Motherjudy: Sounds great.
2006-01-22 17:42:00.0
Sheena: Why Ginger?
2006-01-22 17:42:02.0
Earline: good idea!
2006-01-22 17:42:03.0
Sandra Pierce: I don't think so. The mystery stands on its own.
2006-01-22 17:42:03.0
jgk: Perfect, colleen
2006-01-22 17:42:03.0
kaydee: Good for me too
2006-01-22 17:42:12.0
Colleen C: OK by me
2006-01-22 17:42:18.0
BGE: we're so easy!
2006-01-22 17:42:35.0
jgk: I like the mystery but I didn't like the social commentary. It was a distraction
2006-01-22 17:42:41.0
Marian: Sorry to have started before you, ok book group leader
2006-01-22 17:42:58.0
Marian: I've been told before that i'm a bit goal oriented
2006-01-22 17:42:59.0
Colleen: No problemo.
Let me start by posting a few comments, then Brenda then Colleen C
2006-01-22 17:43:15.0
suncoast: Well, the entire story is about a woman, but is seen from a man's point of view, her fiance's and then his uncle.
2006-01-22 17:43:21.0
jgk: alphabetical?
2006-01-22 17:43:42.0
suncoast: Sorry, too.
2006-01-22 17:44:24.0
Colleen: Yes, alphabetical. ... fwiw, I didn't focus on the discussion topics. Overall, I thought it was a good mystery. I'm more character oriented, and thought the author did a good job making them 'real'
2006-01-22 17:44:53.0
Colleen: The story sagged for me when Mizoguchi gave his LOOOOONNNG lectiure on the credit industry.
2006-01-22 17:44:54.0
suncoast: Are we going alpha from our screen names?
2006-01-22 17:45:21.0
Colleen: I had to force myself to pick up the book again.
2006-01-22 17:45:47.0
jgk: Is there a relieved emoticon
2006-01-22 17:45:55.0
Colleen: (Sorry - yes, ginger lets do it from screen names because we can see them on the screen)
2006-01-22 17:46:19.0
Sheena: Before you really get into this I have to go - but will read the transcript so that I know the routine for nwxt time! Bye all!
2006-01-22 17:46:35.0
suncoast: Bye Sheena
2006-01-22 17:46:37.0
jgk: bye
2006-01-22 17:46:40.0
Marian: bye
2006-01-22 17:46:54.0
Motherjudy: Do I remember that when a writer is finished they will write "done" do the next person will know to start?
2006-01-22 17:47:32.0
Colleen: (yes - I'll type DONE ... and try not to be much longer.
)
2006-01-22 17:48:27.0
jgk: hi
2006-01-22 17:48:29.0
kaydee: HI Palma-- welcome!
2006-01-22 17:48:31.0
Colleen: I thought the translation was good. It was awkward in a few spots, but overall I thought they used English idioms well. I caught "keeping up with the Tanakas"
2006-01-22 17:48:43.0
Palma: Hi everyone, sorry I'm late!
2006-01-22 17:49:50.0
Marta: Hi Palma. We're started- We are going to be going alphabetical. Colleen is just finishing and she'll write done when she is finished.
2006-01-22 17:50:07.0
Palma: Ok
2006-01-22 17:51:47.0
Pauline: Colleen lost her connection and phoned me. Move on to Brenda she said.
2006-01-22 17:51:50.0
BGE: I was a little distracted by the names, of course, as they don't roll off my tongue easily. So, it felt a little jarring for me at times. I also found it interesting about the family registers...how boy children leave the family registry of their parents and go get their own, but girl children are erased from their family registry and inserted into their husband's registry. I really was pi$$ed off at the ending! Walks over ahd lays his hand on her shoulder....the end! Who's shoulder? What happened to the other woman? Did she axe her into small pieces? It felt like the author was leaving it open for a sequel or something. Overall it was an ok book, not wonderful and not a pageturner for me. But then I was reading City of Angels so.....it paled by comparison, I think. No, wait... it just wasn't a great read for me, is all. I liked the kid and thought it was cool how he kept tabs on his dad throughout the book. Would I recommend it to anyone else? Maybe, but likely not. I found that I was making myself read it, and that's not a good sign!
2006-01-22 17:52:37.0
BGE: Done!
2006-01-22 17:53:02.0
suncoast: Crap, I just cleared the message board, I couldn't read all of Brenda's comments
2006-01-22 17:53:15.0
suncoast: How do you scroll up?
2006-01-22 17:53:28.0
BGE: The little thingir on the right side...
2006-01-22 17:53:34.0
BGE: thingie...
2006-01-22 17:53:49.0
BGE: at the bottome of the screen like a little slide...
2006-01-22 17:54:39.0
BGE: No spell check here tonight, that's for sure! Lots of ytops for me...
2006-01-22 17:54:40.0
suncoast: I can't see it. I don't have a little thingy. I have a smiley and a color chart.
2006-01-22 17:54:46.0
BGE: yes you do....
2006-01-22 17:54:57.0
Marta: It is inbetween the text and the list of vistors
2006-01-22 17:55:00.0
BGE: on the right side of the screen right beside Palma's name...
2006-01-22 17:55:17.0
Pauline: There are two windows in the popup window - the one with the text has a scroll on the right of the text.
2006-01-22 17:55:39.0
Palma: It's almost white like the screen with pale gray arrow
2006-01-22 17:55:50.0
BGE: Do you see it, Ginger? Palma and ciaofornow are looking right at it
2006-01-22 17:56:02.0
suncoast: I'm a total idiot, but I don't have it. I have an eraser which I used.
2006-01-22 17:56:09.0
Marta: You might not have it yet Ginger if you don't have a full screen of text.
2006-01-22 17:56:43.0
Palma: It's vertical between shat and list of names
2006-01-22 17:56:48.0
suncoast: Please go on, I will just deal with it.
2006-01-22 17:56:59.0
suncoast: Okay, I have it now.
2006-01-22 17:57:03.0
Colleen: Hello all, sorry about that. I lost my connection. What did I miss?
2006-01-22 17:57:21.0
suncoast: techinical difficulties
2006-01-22 17:57:34.0
Colleen C: I liked the book but it didnt get really interesting until 3/4 way through. I thought the story was more about Honma. He was kind of flat and alittle lost after his wife died and his own accident. Once he starts the investigation he gets a little fired up and he chages, starts to get closer to his son. The investigation seemed plausable but couldn't really relate to the methods. The relationship between kyoko and shoko was ironic. Of all the peoples identity to steel, she was in the same boat again. all in all just ok not great. Sorry I took so long. Done
2006-01-22 17:58:00.0
Palma: Am I supposed to have notes ready to go, or just wing it when it's my turn?
2006-01-22 17:58:10.0
BGE: I made them ahead...
2006-01-22 17:58:16.0
BGE: you can if you like
2006-01-22 17:58:35.0
ciaofornow: I read this awhile ago, but I do recall I kept confusing the character names, my daughter read it as well, we both said 'meh' at the end. But them I'm not a big fan of 'police procedurals' as a rule. DOne cause BLEAK HOUSE is on PBS tonight inCanada. This FUN but like an MSN conversation on speed DONE
2006-01-22 17:59:08.0
kaydee: Colleen, can you confirm the order for the next few of us?
2006-01-22 17:59:29.0
BGE: Are you leaving us, Nancy??
2006-01-22 17:59:42.0
ciaofornow: MY HEAD IS SPINNING
2006-01-22 17:59:44.0
Colleen: (P - whatever works for you. I read a lot of books, so need notes.) Earline, Kaydee, KHB
2006-01-22 17:59:59.0
ciaofornow: Nighty night ladies
2006-01-22 18:00:07.0
suncoast: Bye Nancy
2006-01-22 18:00:08.0
BGE: Nancy, bye...
2006-01-22 18:00:32.0
Earline: I, too, got bogged down with the long foray into the credit system. I was a bit boggled also with the family register thing. Having lived in Japan for a few years and having studied the language and culture for a long time, I thought that some of the phrases and words they used were not well enough explained for the average reader. So to me that was a negative. There were times when I thought -- Why don't they speed this up a little? So I guess that it was not a great read for me either. In many places the translation seemed stilted. Like somebody reading a book to someone else and trying to use expression in their voice when it wasn't genuine. Altogether, not totally enjoyable. I had to go back and re read it to see just what did happen to Mrs. Sekine. Did Kyoko kill her or what?
2006-01-22 18:00:57.0
Earline: Done
2006-01-22 18:01:12.0
jgk: For me it just didn't flow, to use Brenda's term. I started out moderately interested but when the social commentary part started it just broke the story line and seemed very artificially inserted. Like the book was just an excuse to publish her opinions on some specific subjects. So I didn't really get into the book. It never compeled me to read it at all. I felt like the women were clearly oppressed and their stories together were quite poignant.
2006-01-22 18:01:20.0
kaydee: I read a lot of mysteries (Jonathan Kellerman underway right now). I had a very hard time getting into this mystery. Like others, I had a hard time keeping with it-- would have put it aside if not for this group! I did have a hard time keeping the names straight-- especially the two women. Hard to keep up with which one was which. (Though I think that was part of the idea of the identity switch.) The uncle (Honma... just had to look up his name) really kept at it though. Like Brenda and Earline, I didn't understand the ending. Why did he think that the one girl killed the other and buried the head??
2006-01-22 18:02:01.0
BGE: and, Mrs. Sekine? I dunno...never found out what happened to her
2006-01-22 18:02:08.0
kaydee: One part related to the credit system did intrigue me. (page 217). "Used to be not every young couple could lay their hands on the kind of cash to back up their fantasies. Also there weren't so many different places to pour money into. No expensive makeovers, no cosmetic surgery, no fancy prep schools, no glossy magazines showing every product every made... Everything's easy now. All the dreams that money can buy. Those that have spend it, and those that don't borrow their pocket money and wind up like Shoko."
2006-01-22 18:02:30.0
suncoast: Hi Kim
2006-01-22 18:02:41.0
BGE: Kim, hi there!
2006-01-22 18:02:51.0
jgk: Hi Kim, we're up late!
2006-01-22 18:02:55.0
kaydee: I think this one section says a lot about our culture today... many people don't work for what they have and they just "charge it." Many young people especially are way in over their heads... no savings, nothing. Not just Japan-- in the USA. DONE
2006-01-22 18:03:19.0
KHB: First of I’d like to say that I really liked the cover of the book (paperback version) - it’s a beautiful design and that started me off really wanting to like the book.
2006-01-22 18:03:28.0
Kim: Hi all, just wanted to drop in and say hi; I forgot it was Chris's b-day today - we just had cake and are going to hit the hay soon. Enjoy the discussion, and someone remind me tomorrow to post a funny quote I read today about book clubs
2006-01-22 18:03:43.0
Kim: ciao
2006-01-22 18:03:49.0
BGE: bye, kim...
2006-01-22 18:03:53.0
KHB: But it was not an easy book for me to get through, I had a hard time getting into the solving of the mystery, I actually wanted more character development. Maybe because as others have said the character names were a bit tricky to keep straight.
2006-01-22 18:04:13.0
KHB: As for the ending, I just felt cheated. I did not like the ending at all. And right before this chat I went back and read the last chapter again and I still thought it was a bad choice to end on that note. I probably would not recommend this book. Done.
2006-01-22 18:04:28.0
Marian: I thought that a major point of the book was a commentary on the new socio-economic trends in Japan. As I am not Japanese, this was not of great interest to me, I mean it's nothing new here in the US. The "mystery" wasn't such a "mystery", I thought. Most interesting was the similarity between the two women, both caught up in the same financial nightmare. So we knew that the fake Shoko (Kyoko) killed the real one. And (2) I was struck by the similarity here in plot hinge between this one (a disabled detective takes up a mystery in his spare time) and the Josephine Tey story where her detective is bedridden and looks into the Richard III case. Also a similar thing in an "Inspector Morse" mystery
2006-01-22 18:05:03.0
Marian: As for keeping the characters straight, this was a problem. I just went back and made a list.
2006-01-22 18:05:34.0
Marian: Lots of parallels, each of the Shoko's has a man whom she manipulates, or several men
2006-01-22 18:06:23.0
Marian: I'm a great fan of mysteries, including police procedurals, but I am not fond of such books when they need lots of exposition.
2006-01-22 18:07:01.0
Marian: I could compare this to Donna Leon's Venice books, which I love. They are also often very involved with a social problem, but Leon does it better
2006-01-22 18:07:03.0
Marian: done
2006-01-22 18:07:20.0
Marta: For me I was actually facinated with the identity stealing idea and the credit system. I was surprised to find out that it had been written in early 90's before all the high tech boom. I also got very confused by the two characters especially near the end. I was also intrigued by the fact that men were taking care of each other. It seemed unusual for Japan. I do wish there had been more character development of the women. I wanted to know more about the killer.
2006-01-22 18:07:50.0
Marta: Done.
2006-01-22 18:07:56.0
Motherjudy: I had much the same reaction to this book as Brenda - it was an OK read, but not a great book. I felt it was more of a polemic on the dangers of credit than an attempt to write a great mystery. And I fully agree that the end was totally unsatisfactory -- kind of a "I got myself into this, now how do I get out". Was the author so sympathetic with the imposter he couldn't bear to end it with her getting arrested for it? I also thought the writing was somewhat stilted. Though that may be the result of the translator, not the author. It was interesting to find the tidbits about the Japanese society -- the system of registration and control was interesting . I, too am a great mystery fan, and like police proceudrals -- but this one left me lukewarm. .Done
2006-01-22 18:08:32.0
Palma: It was not compelling to me either. I read 2-3 books a week and it took me all week to get through this one. I HATED the ending and felt "robbed", so if there is a sequel, I now don't CARE. What I liked about the book, was the was it explained how easy it is to get in over your head on credit card debt, especially for young people. I kept having to look back to keep what we knew about the two women straight. I also liked the son and the housekeepers characters. I read so many other good books in January, I was disappointed in this, BUT what I love about book clubs is they make me read books I might not ordinarily choose.
2006-01-22 18:09:07.0
Palma: done
2006-01-22 18:09:25.0
Sandra Pierce: Overall, I don't read a lot of mysteries, so this was a bit different for me. I liked the discussion about the credit industry - was sort of interesting. I thought the whole idea of buying and selling a family register was wierd, but that is a cultural thing. I didn't like the ending either. Too many unanswered questions, like where was Shoko's head? What about Jun, the nephew? Does Honma ever get back in touch with him? What about his relationship with his son? I thought the whole deal with the mother of Shoko falling off the tavern steps was a waste of time. Didn't add much to the mystery, IMHO. I did like some of the elements like the type of engagement ring stone. That kind of added to Honma's detective persona. Wasn't it wierd how "into" the mystery of Shoko/Kyoko he was? Because he was Shoko's childhood friend? His wife was a patient woman. I wish that Honma's relationship with his son was explored further. I think the author was trying to go there with the murder of Blockhead the dog but I never quite got it. I also thought it was interesting the way Kyoko felt some remorse/morals in her actions - she sent the yearbooks to Shoko's friend and she went to the schoolyard to mourn/pay tribute/feel sorrow for Shoko and all she (Kyoko) did to her. Was this the best book I ever read? No, but I did enjoy it because it was different and thought provoking. Done.
2006-01-22 18:10:35.0
Sandra Pierce: The guy who was Shoko's friend was Tomatso
2006-01-22 18:11:41.0
suncoast: I did not like this book at all. I just did'n't care about the characters. Also I felt the entire book was one big cliche. The wounded widower detective with a son, and his faithful house caretaker and friends.
2006-01-22 18:11:50.0
Colleen C: I thought it was a little goofy how Honma puts the two girls together. Who gets thier picture taken at a cemetary and are thier really group tours?
2006-01-22 18:12:25.0
BGE: Do we even know that the supposed killer WAS the real killer? Never proved it, I don't think. AND was the woman at the end the right person? Palma I agree...I read books that I wouldn't otherwise read by being in a book club. Blockhead, the dog...I forgot about that! Group tours of a cemetary...I'll sign up right now, you bet!
2006-01-22 18:12:31.0
Sandra Pierce: too funny colleen!
2006-01-22 18:12:33.0
kaydee: Really good point Colleen. Ha!
2006-01-22 18:12:37.0
Marian: Ginger, sometimes a "cliche" is a convenient plot hinge
2006-01-22 18:12:48.0
BGE:
2006-01-22 18:12:53.0
suncoast: I thought he was a terrible parent. He left his son all the time and the kid was the parent to him.
2006-01-22 18:13:01.0
BGE: yep, I agree
2006-01-22 18:13:05.0
Earline: The Japanese have a different outlook on death than many western cultures, so I can quite easily see the cemetary tour scenario.
2006-01-22 18:13:10.0
Sandra Pierce: I was pretty convinced that Kyoko was Shoko's killer.
2006-01-22 18:13:16.0
kaydee: Remember the shrine in the living room...
2006-01-22 18:13:27.0
Earline: The shrine is a typical thing.
2006-01-22 18:13:29.0
suncoast: Throw in a dead dog for pathos, (that's a muskateer right) and you have a formula novel.
2006-01-22 18:13:33.0
BGE: AND what was that thing about the guy at the agency, the kinds creeoy guy who had been having a thing with whoever it was?
2006-01-22 18:13:39.0
kaydee: A child's dead dog at that!
2006-01-22 18:13:41.0
BGE: kinda creepy
2006-01-22 18:13:44.0
Sandra Pierce: Yeah, what was the point in bringing up the dead wife periodically?
2006-01-22 18:13:46.0
Marian: I don't think the identity of Shoko's killer, or even that she was killed, was the mystery
2006-01-22 18:13:48.0
jgk: Every time someone behaved in a odd way, like how he was with his son, I thought "it must just be a cultural thing"
2006-01-22 18:13:54.0
Colleen: Ginger, are you "done?" thanks.
2006-01-22 18:14:29.0
jgk: We have gotten a bit wild here
2006-01-22 18:14:34.0
BGE: sorry, I was butting in...
2006-01-22 18:15:05.0
suncoast: It wasn't a very good story, nor was it well written. Done.
2006-01-22 18:15:11.0
Sandra Pierce: I think the mystery was how someone would even think about finding someone else whose identity would fit their needs and then become that person, be it by arson (remember???) or otherwise.
2006-01-22 18:15:20.0
BGE: eeeeuwwww. a child's dead dog, Kathy...
2006-01-22 18:15:29.0
Palma: THis is what CHAT is supposed to be like...the dun of it is "pinging off" each other.
2006-01-22 18:15:34.0
Colleen C: I think Honmas wife was the rock of the family. Bringing her up was to show how lost and disconnected he was.
2006-01-22 18:15:36.0
Palma: fun
2006-01-22 18:15:43.0
Marian: I agree, Sandra, the process was the mystery
2006-01-22 18:16:08.0
BGE: It was interesting to me that the friend went to the wife's shrine every tome he came into Honma's house...
2006-01-22 18:16:11.0
Marian: As to the dead spouse --- this was a key to the story.
2006-01-22 18:16:21.0
BGE: because?
2006-01-22 18:16:22.0
jgk: I think Colleen wants us to be tamer
2006-01-22 18:16:25.0
suncoast: How so?
2006-01-22 18:16:26.0
kaydee: Jan, I think I cut you off earlier. (Thought it was my turn.) Were you done? Sorry!!!!
2006-01-22 18:16:35.0
Marian: Honma is a recent widower looking into the disappearance (death) of two young women
2006-01-22 18:16:41.0
jgk: Yes, I just forgot to sy it
2006-01-22 18:17:08.0
kaydee: Marian, say more. Why is this a key to the story?
2006-01-22 18:17:15.0
suncoast: And????
2006-01-22 18:17:29.0
Motherjudy: Brenda -- there seemed to be a lot of men who were showing interest in someone they weren't attached to -- Tomatso, the detective's friend -- and others. Weird.
2006-01-22 18:17:33.0
jgk: He, Honma, seems so uninterested in his son
2006-01-22 18:17:37.0
Sandra Pierce: I thought that the friend went to the shrine to pay respect, but he was a dear friend of hers (he wouldn't marry C. though).
2006-01-22 18:17:46.0
suncoast: Is this some psycological thing here? If he could solve this, he could get over his wife's death?
2006-01-22 18:17:51.0
BGE: I thought that also, MJ...
2006-01-22 18:17:52.0
Palma: yes, all of the characters are dealing with personal loss in their own way
2006-01-22 18:17:53.0
Marian: A key only in the sense that he is obsessed by the life and death of two young women
2006-01-22 18:18:09.0
Marian: Why would you expect him to "get over" his wife's death?
2006-01-22 18:18:16.0
BGE: Yeah, but it's a stretch to click this all together don't you think?
2006-01-22 18:18:24.0
Marian: NOpe
2006-01-22 18:18:33.0
Palma: Oh oh, now I'm thinking like the therapist in the house
2006-01-22 18:18:49.0
BGE: but, you are!
2006-01-22 18:18:49.0
Sandra Pierce: I thought that Honma was interested in solving this case because he was temporarily off the police force. It was a strength for him.
2006-01-22 18:19:06.0
Marian: If I could see this, why do I think I'm putting in something that the author didn't know about
2006-01-22 18:19:09.0
suncoast: To help him recover from grief, grief for this wife, his life, his leg?
2006-01-22 18:19:17.0
jgk: because he LOVE his work?
2006-01-22 18:19:30.0
BGE: I thought he was doing it to help his nephew and to feel useful again
2006-01-22 18:19:37.0
Marian: Sure
2006-01-22 18:19:43.0
kaydee: His nephew didn't even contact him after his wife's death-- yet he took on investigating the nephew's fiancee's disappearance as a full-time job...
2006-01-22 18:19:46.0
Palma: I agree that part of his unconscious motivation was to put closure on someone else's loss
2006-01-22 18:19:53.0
KHB: perhaps because he wants to connect with someone again
2006-01-22 18:20:08.0
Motherjudy: Hey palma -- you ARE the in-house therapist now!
2006-01-22 18:20:17.0
BGE: no doubt she is!
2006-01-22 18:20:20.0
Sandra Pierce: He wanted to feel useful, but I don't think that he had any affectionate feelings for his wife's nephew who never even sent condolences for her death.
2006-01-22 18:20:23.0
Palma: oh boy! LOL
2006-01-22 18:20:24.0
suncoast: He should have concentrated on connecting with his son.
2006-01-22 18:20:34.0
Colleen C: Remember , He did not have to continue with the investigation. His nephew fired him
2006-01-22 18:20:37.0
Marian: And my mind always looks for patterns, can't help seeing them.
2006-01-22 18:20:43.0
kaydee: You can tell that there are a bunch of mothers here!
2006-01-22 18:20:47.0
Palma: cool, Marian
2006-01-22 18:20:56.0
Marian: Still a structuralist when even DE-construction is dead!
2006-01-22 18:20:58.0
BGE: right, Ginger...I agree he was a little lame as a father...specially cause the son was struggling as well....
2006-01-22 18:20:59.0
KHB: At the end he says "My questions don't mattwer, I want to hear your story." he wanted to connect with Kyoko
2006-01-22 18:21:01.0
suncoast: Marian, thats a gift.
2006-01-22 18:21:10.0
Motherjudy: I think because he had trouble connecting with his son he had to find something else to occupy him -- and the disappearance was a puzzle that challenged him.
2006-01-22 18:21:19.0
BGE: probably...
2006-01-22 18:21:22.0
Palma: My husband ALWAYS tries to predict the ending of a mystery. I don't because I like the surprise twists
2006-01-22 18:21:31.0
Sandra Pierce: good point, motherju;dy
2006-01-22 18:21:32.0
jgk: I have to go--my daughter needs th computer to finish her homework. this was great!
2006-01-22 18:21:41.0
Sandra Pierce: Bye, Jan!!
2006-01-22 18:21:43.0
jgk: Bye all
2006-01-22 18:21:45.0
BGE: Jan, take care...thanks for stopping by!
2006-01-22 18:21:46.0
kaydee: Bye Jan
2006-01-22 18:21:46.0
Palma: Bye
2006-01-22 18:21:47.0
Marian: Bye jan
2006-01-22 18:21:51.0
KHB: bye jan
2006-01-22 18:22:11.0
BGE: So, was anyone else reading a great book while you were trying to read this one?
2006-01-22 18:22:25.0
BGE: I was and that made this one even harder to read.
2006-01-22 18:22:27.0
Marian: Wow, it's nearly 9:30 here
2006-01-22 18:22:29.0
Motherjudy: I think what disappointed me most was that I never really felt any tension -- the mystery didn
2006-01-22 18:22:38.0
suncoast: I was expecting more Japanese culture, such as in Memoirs. This was very disappointing.
2006-01-22 18:22:47.0
Palma: I read Geisha just before...wanted an Italy book, but did 2 Japans in a row
2006-01-22 18:22:51.0
kaydee: Definitely not a page turner...
2006-01-22 18:23:02.0
Motherjudy: oh heck -- the mystery didn't pull me in.
2006-01-22 18:23:09.0
KHB: yes, I read Memoirs recently too and this was no Memoirs
2006-01-22 18:23:12.0
Marian: Time to move my laundry along, crawl into bed, and finish another book
2006-01-22 18:23:15.0
BGE: not at all it felt flat to me
2006-01-22 18:23:17.0
Colleen: Judy - I agree. I thought the pacing was not well done. the last 1/4 was the best.
2006-01-22 18:23:20.0
Marian: Marian says "Ciao!"
2006-01-22 18:23:26.0
suncoast: Bye Marian
2006-01-22 18:23:29.0
Colleen: g'night Marian!
2006-01-22 18:23:29.0
KHB: bye Marian
2006-01-22 18:23:33.0
Palma: Bye
2006-01-22 18:23:35.0
kaydee: Bye Marian
2006-01-22 18:23:37.0
Motherjudy: Bye Marian.
2006-01-22 18:23:55.0
BGE: Bye, Marian
2006-01-22 18:24:00.0
suncoast: I think Harrison Ford could play Honma.
2006-01-22 18:24:12.0
BGE: ???really???
2006-01-22 18:24:12.0
Palma: I just read Vanishing Acts by Jodi Picoult and really enjoyed it
2006-01-22 18:24:15.0
kaydee: Now that would make it more interesting!
2006-01-22 18:24:19.0
Sandra Pierce: I think that I felt sorry for Kyoko at the end. She had a lousy childhood with her parents debt overtaking the family and she was just trying to make a better life for herself. She ended up doing murder and running away from everything. Maybe she thought that she had a good thing with her engagement with Jun but then he found out about Shoko's personal bankruptcy and the stuff hit the fan. What a life to lead!
2006-01-22 18:24:45.0
BGE: I'm still rationing City of Falling Angels to make it laaaaast looooonger!
2006-01-22 18:24:52.0
BGE: A chapter a night...
2006-01-22 18:24:56.0
Sandra Pierce: No, Harrison Ford won't do as Honma!
2006-01-22 18:25:01.0
Colleen: S - yes, someone mentioned parallels - what about karma??
2006-01-22 18:25:05.0
suncoast: He played so many disfunctional cops that this wouldn't be a stretch.
2006-01-22 18:25:06.0
KHB: I don't think All She Was Worth would make a good movie
2006-01-22 18:25:21.0
BGE: would that be what we'd call a sleeper?
2006-01-22 18:25:22.0
Motherjudy: Sandra -- interesting you felt sorry for her. I never felt I got to know who she was at all -- she was a shadow object being pursued by others, but we never got to hear her at all.
2006-01-22 18:25:36.0
kaydee: Curious-- was this a best seller in Japan?
2006-01-22 18:25:41.0
suncoast: Yes
2006-01-22 18:25:41.0
KHB: sleeper! LOL
2006-01-22 18:25:43.0
BGE: was this a first novel?
2006-01-22 18:25:53.0
Colleen: Voted best novel and best myster of the year!
2006-01-22 18:25:57.0
Colleen: No, not first
2006-01-22 18:26:02.0
kaydee: Maybe it is a cultural thing...
2006-01-22 18:26:02.0
Motherjudy: I think this would need some serious reworking to succeed as a film...it lacked focus.
2006-01-22 18:26:06.0
BGE: or was it the fact that a lot was lost in translation, so to speak?
2006-01-22 18:26:12.0
Palma: We are so spoiled by great books!
2006-01-22 18:26:21.0
suncoast: That's what I was wondering.
2006-01-22 18:26:29.0
BGE: Funny thing, most translations are a little tough for me to read...
2006-01-22 18:26:31.0
Sandra Pierce: Maybe we didn't ge to hear her, but could you imagine yourself in that situation! She's desparate for a new life and is willing to do crime to have it.
2006-01-22 18:26:38.0
BGE: BUT Shadow of the Wind was luscious!
2006-01-22 18:26:39.0
KHB: reading this does make you appreciate the books that you really love
2006-01-22 18:26:50.0
BGE: you are so right!
2006-01-22 18:26:52.0
Colleen C: Well, I guess we all pretty much agree this book tanked.
2006-01-22 18:26:57.0
Palma: I just bought it yesterday...can't wait
2006-01-22 18:27:09.0
kaydee: But it has been fun talking about it with all of you!
2006-01-22 18:27:19.0
Palma: I'm reading A Million Little Pieces
2006-01-22 18:27:23.0
Sandra Pierce: Harrison Ford couldn't do this movie because there are no realy sexy scenes in it
2006-01-22 18:27:26.0
BGE: What a great group we are!
2006-01-22 18:27:31.0
Sandra Pierce:
2006-01-22 18:27:38.0
Motherjudy: Sandra - I can't imagine myself ever resorting to stealing someone's identity, or to killing them! Could you?????
2006-01-22 18:27:38.0
KHB: we are a bit like-minded
2006-01-22 18:27:40.0
Marta: I agree with you Sandra. I did feel sorry for her but I felt I was missing a little bit of what made her click.
2006-01-22 18:27:42.0
suncoast: Yes it does, Well ladies, I'm going to go check and see if it's MY TURN yet. I can hardly wait to talk about Angels.
2006-01-22 18:27:52.0
kaydee: Maybe that's what the book is missing-- sex!
2006-01-22 18:28:00.0
Sandra Pierce: Good luck, Ginger!
2006-01-22 18:28:04.0
BGE: It would have helped
2006-01-22 18:28:15.0
Sandra Pierce: It doesn't hurt.
2006-01-22 18:28:21.0
BGE: A little sneakin' around
2006-01-22 18:28:21.0
suncoast: As for the Harrison Ford crack, I was just trying to be funny. Not to good huh?
2006-01-22 18:28:25.0
Motherjudy: Sex? But -- who, with who? Boggles the mind...
2006-01-22 18:28:31.0
Pauline: I could tell her - it isn't. I have been emailing and phoning Robert - no luck!
2006-01-22 18:28:33.0
BGE: ginger, it was funny!
2006-01-22 18:28:46.0
suncoast: The wife of the apartment guy.
2006-01-22 18:28:48.0
kaydee: Pauline is here! What did you think of the book?
2006-01-22 18:29:20.0
suncoast: He seemed to have a thing for her.
2006-01-22 18:29:25.0
Pauline: I read it a few years ago and liked it, but don't remember much. I have been reading your comments and it is coming back to me. I didn't like it so much that I kept it - it is out in the garage somewhere.
2006-01-22 18:29:25.0
Colleen: Pauline, this killer chops up her victim - isn't that the same plot device in the other Japanese mystery "Out"?
2006-01-22 18:29:39.0
Pauline: Yes!
2006-01-22 18:29:45.0
Colleen: Weird
2006-01-22 18:29:46.0
kaydee: The wife of the apartment guy-- another loose thread...
2006-01-22 18:29:59.0
Pauline: Now Out I really liked - did I pass that on to you Colleen? I love books set in Japan.
2006-01-22 18:30:05.0
Sandra Pierce: Do you mean the housekeeper guy?
2006-01-22 18:30:08.0
Motherjudy: There were many loose threads -- a full fringe worth.
2006-01-22 18:30:10.0
BGE: The lady's death on the stairs..who did it? Do we know?
2006-01-22 18:30:12.0
Colleen C: What apartment guy?
2006-01-22 18:30:13.0
Colleen: P - yes, I'm looking forward to it.
2006-01-22 18:30:19.0
kaydee: Let's not put another Japanese book in the hat just yet...
2006-01-22 18:30:21.0
suncoast: I think this book was trying to be too western.
2006-01-22 18:30:25.0
Colleen: Accident, Brenda. Bad timing.
2006-01-22 18:30:38.0
Pauline: I recently read Judge Savage by my hero Tim Parks - very good.
2006-01-22 18:30:40.0
KHB: I think this book was trying to be too modern
2006-01-22 18:30:41.0
suncoast: The guy who's wife ran the business.
2006-01-22 18:30:53.0
Colleen: Too modern ... how?
2006-01-22 18:30:55.0
Colleen C: Ithink she was drunk and then helped
2006-01-22 18:31:01.0
kaydee: The one with the daughter... Honma was really attracted to the wife.
2006-01-22 18:31:02.0
KHB: the ending mostly
2006-01-22 18:31:32.0
BGE: Where did that come in, Kathy?
2006-01-22 18:31:34.0
KHB: I think the author was trying to hard to leave the ending vague
2006-01-22 18:31:51.0
BGE: for a sequel?
2006-01-22 18:32:03.0
Palma: Maybe we should write a new ending where we tie up all the loose ends and explain it to OUR satisfaction, add a little sex and have a happy ending for the little boy!
2006-01-22 18:32:04.0
Motherjudy: OK - how about we all write a revised final chapter for this book that ties up all the loose ends and clarifies everything.... (hey -- just kidding)
2006-01-22 18:32:04.0
KHB: no probably no sequel
2006-01-22 18:32:16.0
Colleen: IPalma - lol!
2006-01-22 18:32:17.0
Palma: Great minds, Judy!
2006-01-22 18:32:22.0
Colleen C: I assumed the girl was kyoko and she was caught. No?
2006-01-22 18:32:29.0
BGE: we don't know that
2006-01-22 18:32:30.0
KHB: great English class assignment
2006-01-22 18:32:48.0
Sandra Pierce: Man, I finished school a long time ago!!
2006-01-22 18:32:49.0
kaydee: Let's let some other book club group take on that project!
2006-01-22 18:32:51.0
suncoast: Yes, by the best friend/old lover of Shoko.
2006-01-22 18:33:16.0
BGE: I often wonder what the writer was thinking when they create an ending like this..."Hola! Now we got the reader's attention!"
2006-01-22 18:33:17.0
KHB: yes, she's caught but there's so much left unsaid
2006-01-22 18:33:52.0
Marta: Dinner Calling - night all. Thank you for organizing the book club, Colleen.
2006-01-22 18:33:55.0
Colleen: I really disliked the ending - as others said, I felt cheated out of the confrontation/hearing "her side."
2006-01-22 18:33:56.0
Palma: That's funny, I always thought of the author as a male
2006-01-22 18:34:14.0
BGE: What if the wonam in the restaurant was NOT who they thought it was?
2006-01-22 18:34:19.0
BGE: woman..
2006-01-22 18:34:19.0
Sandra Pierce: I think that's kind of a lame ending. Kind of like, I'm tired of writing and I'm just going to end it here and be intellectual (??) about it.
2006-01-22 18:34:21.0
Motherjudy: Palma - so did I.
2006-01-22 18:34:34.0
BGE: was it not?
2006-01-22 18:34:34.0
KHB: Sandra, exactly what I was thinking
2006-01-22 18:34:34.0
Pauline: I have to get dinner going too - bye! And next time I will get myself organized and read the book!!
2006-01-22 18:34:47.0
suncoast: I had no sympathy for this character, she was a cross between what's her name in East of Eden and a movie star.
2006-01-22 18:34:53.0
BGE: Was the author a woman?
2006-01-22 18:35:03.0
BGE: I didn't know THAT! ooops!
2006-01-22 18:35:05.0
KHB: yes, I believe so
2006-01-22 18:35:09.0
Sandra Pierce: Good ? Brenda
2006-01-22 18:35:10.0
Colleen C: I thought so
2006-01-22 18:35:25.0
kaydee: The back cover says that the author is a woman.
2006-01-22 18:35:35.0
BGE: ok, wasn't aware of that...does it make a difference, I wonder?
2006-01-22 18:35:47.0
KHB: on the back it says: one of Japan's most popular authos, best known for her award-winning crime fiction
2006-01-22 18:35:53.0
Motherjudy: Hard to believe a woman wrote a book with so little SOUL and feeling in it... this felt cold to me all the way through.
2006-01-22 18:35:54.0
suncoast: She really was a femme fatal, another cliche.
2006-01-22 18:36:05.0
BGE: so strange...
2006-01-22 18:36:09.0
Palma: I never read the back...what does THAT tell me?
2006-01-22 18:36:18.0
Sandra Pierce: Do you think that it was a bestseller in Japan and not even known here shows the cultural differences? I mean, the Japanese really dige karaoke too
2006-01-22 18:36:18.0
suncoast: Well ladies, I'm really going.
2006-01-22 18:36:28.0
Sandra Pierce: bye, ginger
2006-01-22 18:36:30.0
KHB: but the cover design is really beautiful!!
2006-01-22 18:36:32.0
kaydee: I need to go soon to...
2006-01-22 18:36:33.0
BGE: Bye, Ginger...
2006-01-22 18:36:43.0
Sandra Pierce: very metro cover
2006-01-22 18:36:43.0
BGE: So, one question...before you leave....
2006-01-22 18:36:45.0
kaydee: Krista, that's just so funny about the cover design!!
2006-01-22 18:36:50.0
BGE: what's everyone reading right now?
2006-01-22 18:37:07.0
kaydee: Jonathan Kellerman, Twisted. But getting ready to read Angels!
2006-01-22 18:37:09.0
Motherjudy: Yes, the cover is lovely but as someone once said - you can't judge a book by its cover!
2006-01-22 18:37:14.0
Sandra Pierce: Brenda!! Of course, we are reading Angels!
2006-01-22 18:37:25.0
Palma: Million Little Pieces and bought Wind, finished Angels
2006-01-22 18:37:29.0
KHB: I'm just finishing The Lost Continent - Bill Bryson
2006-01-22 18:37:53.0
Sandra Pierce: BTW, I also ordered Midnight and In This House of Brede from Amazon when I ordered a book for my son.
2006-01-22 18:37:55.0
Palma: Also reading Mary, Mary
2006-01-22 18:38:00.0
Colleen C: Thanks girls, it was fun. Goodnight.
2006-01-22 18:38:08.0
Palma: Goodnight
2006-01-22 18:38:10.0
BGE: Ciao, colleen...
2006-01-22 18:38:17.0
kaydee: Bye everyone!
2006-01-22 18:38:19.0
Motherjudy: I'm busy reading travel guides to New York (my first trip there in 45 years) and Piumonte for our fall trip. Want to get started on Angels,, too.
2006-01-22 18:38:25.0
Colleen: Bye all ..
2006-01-22 18:38:31.0
BGE: I'm reading The Constant Gardener
2006-01-22 18:38:37.0
Palma: and then there were 6
2006-01-22 18:38:40.0
BGE: for my book club...slow going....
2006-01-22 18:38:50.0
Colleen: I am signing off, too. Thanks everyone for making it a success. I think??
2006-01-22 18:38:55.0
KHB: we're dwindeling
2006-01-22 18:39:11.0
BGE: Thanks colleen...you did a great job organizing this!
2006-01-22 18:39:14.0
KHB: yes, very successful - thank you!
2006-01-22 18:39:15.0
Motherjudy: Night Night Colleen. I think I'll go start dinner too.
2006-01-22 18:39:41.0
Palma: I thought there would be more "chat" (not a criticism) it is fun
2006-01-22 18:39:42.0
BGE: ciao, MJ....Any opinions on Million Little Pieces? Anyone reading it?
2006-01-22 18:39:45.0
Sandra Pierce: I'm done too, girls. I had a great time!! Got to corral kids, make coffee, get ready for Gray's Anatomy. Can't wait for next month! Thank you, Colleen, for doing this. It was a blast and so nice to spend time with everyone.
2006-01-22 18:39:46.0
Colleen: I'll post the transcript tonight, and remind everyone that we're reading "The City of Falling Angels." Good night!
Topic Closed
