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Slow Traveler
Posted
Saw a mention of this in La Provence the other day - it's apparently more controversial than you might think.

So I leave the question open to the French grammer experts out there....

-Kevin


Kevin Widrow
www.masperreal.com
 
Posts: 1148 | Location: Provence | Registered: 13 February 2004Edit or Delete MessageReport This Post

Slow Traveler
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Interesting. There is I think a problem about the difference between "in" and "at" in English. At one time, people would often say in English "at" a town or city where today we would probably say "in". The grammatical guide I was told to use at university (Grévisse, "Le Bon Usage") isn't terribly clear - it makes a distinction between "en" and "dans", but doesn't make a direct comparison between "à" and "en".

I have a vague memory that "en" is acceptable for reasons of euphony where the placename begins with a vowel, but I think one would normally say "à", unless you really want to focus attention on your surroundings rather than your location in relation to some other place. Somehow, it's tied to the size of the place."En" for a département or region, "à" for a town or city. Come to think it, isn't it always "à Paris", unless you want to say "dans Paris" to mean "within the city"?
 
Posts: 521 | Location: London (Isle of Dogs) | Registered: 22 February 2005Edit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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we can say "en" only for some cities ( i think Avignon, and Arles). I think ( i am not sure) that's because they were both cities and counties.
( Avignon was like a state when popes lived there).
Usually, "à" is used for towns, and "en" or "au" for regions, countries ( aller en Alsace, aller à Strasbourg).
If we say
je vais à Luxembourg => Luxembourg City
je vais au Luxembourg => Luxembourg state.
For Avignon, both can be used
 
Posts: 70 | Location: france | Registered: 12 February 2006Edit or Delete MessageReport This Post

Slow Traveler
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Curious "rules" apply with various nominal justifications. Chypre and Israel are among the other odd ones. In daily speech today, the uneuphonious "à Arles" and "à Avignon" are the norm, matching à Angers etc.
 
Posts: 4550 | Registered: 06 January 2002Edit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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quote:
Usually, "à" is used for towns, and "en" or "au" for regions, countries ( aller en Alsace, aller à Strasbourg).


You are right on. As most tourists will refer to Avignon as a city they must say «Je vais à Avignon»
 
Posts: 253 | Location: Montreal, QC | Registered: 02 April 2005Edit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Slow Traveler
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I should also add the confusion may come from the english speaking individual who translates in his head instead of thinking in the other language. As we say in English that we are in Avignon, we still say in French nous sommes à Avignon.
 
Posts: 253 | Location: Montreal, QC | Registered: 02 April 2005Edit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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