Why is "chef" pronounced differently in "chef-d'œuvre" ?

I will try to answer this. Resident grands fromages - I mean of course Kena and David - please jump in.

The French in certain circumstances also change the pronunciation according to its consonant cluster rules. In their ears, certain consonants don't go together, - pairings like f and d, b and s, the "sh" sound and l, - and something must be done to avoid their being pronounced together

Therefore,in "Robespierre" and "Richelieu", the French DO pronounce the otherwise silent middle "e" (called shwa in lingistic mumbo jumbo).
Robespierre is 3 syllables: Ro-bes-pierre
Ditto Richelieu: Ri-che-lieu.

Each language has its rule about which consonants can "mix" together and which can't. English has its own rules on this too. One example: when an English speaker says "asked", the "d" is pronounced as "t" and not as "d". I bet zillions of English-learning foreigners scratch their head on this one too.

Just to clarify, for those who may be unfamiliar with this, in the pronunciation of "chef d'oeuvre" - the f is silent? And in "chef" the f is sounded? Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by David:
Just to clarify, for those who may be unfamiliar with this, in the pronunciation of "chef d'oeuvre" - the f is silent? And in "chef" the f is sounded? Thanks.

My trusted Petit Larousse (ed. 1959) indicates the pronunciation of Chef in Chef-d'oeuvre as Chè.

À-propos AinP's explanation, on the same page of the Larousse the word Cheik (like in Head of Arab tribe) is indicated as pronounced Chèk.

I hope I didn't muddy the waters here; it would be irresponsible because tomorrow I'm off for a month and can't be called to
account ...

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and can't be called to
account Big Grin ...

So you think you will be safe from the Powers That Be at Slow Trav?

Sorriest I explained all kinds of things except the essential.

I meant that to avoid pronouncing f and d in chef-d'oeuvre, the French made the f silent there.

Elsewhere the f in chef is pronounced.
Monsieur Doru Millefeuille, I'll be thinking of you…

I'm still slightly puzzled by this. I understand AiP's point about consonant clusters. But what (apart from the hyphen) makes chef-d'oeuvre a special case? Chef d'État, chef d'orchestre both retain the f, n'est-ce pas?

(Thinking of difficult consonant clusters for the English speaker: last Tuesday I was singing a Javanese song including 'keclap katon': in Javanese (& Malay, Indonesian, etc) 'c' is pronounced 'ch' (as in 'cheese'): tricky!)

Jonathan

quote:

But what (apart from the hyphen) makes chef-d'oeuvre a special case? Chef d'État, chef d'orchestre both retain the f, n'est-ce pas?

You are so right.

So, I have no idea why the French make the f silent in chef-d'oeuvre. To mess with our brain as usual, maybe?
Sylvain, Ken, we need your lumière.

Jonathan,

According to Larousse "Dictionnaire Historique de l'Orthographe" - chef-d'oeuvre dates back to the 16th century when the letter f was not pronounced if followed by s in a plural or another consonant, this was the case even when pronouncing the f came back into style for the simple word "Chef".

Since the examples you mention are presumably more modern, it kind of makes sense that the silent f doesn't apply.

-Kevin

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I hope I didn't muddy the waters here; it would be irresponsible because tomorrow I'm off for a month and can't be called to
account Big Grin ...

Oh, get thee to Romania, thou irresponsible wretch!

Kevin, thanks for that. Interesting.

Jonathan, so you just happened to be "singing a Javanese song." As if it were a relatively common occurence! Sorry, that got a giggle out of me! I'm sure there's a reasonable explanation...

I hadn't checked the French Language forum in a while and didn't see any of these replies until today! Thanks for all the detailed answers.

Feef, ya gotta keep on top of dees tings! Heaven forbid you were at a cocktail party in the last couple of months and wanted to describe the new novel by your favorite author as a chef d'oeuvre and hesitated because you hadn't checked back with SlowTalk to receive the pronunciation help you'd requested!

Seriously, I'm glad you checked back - some very interesting stuff.

the example of the word "chef-d'oeuvres" is an example amoung many others of the sort in the french language. Somtims some of those rules just apply to one case because it just sounds better for that one case (word).

David,

My favorite story by my favorite author has "chef-d'oeuvre" in its title, which I had mispronounced for years until I heard the audiobook version recently. But most of my travelling in the last couple of months was to the place whose most famous operetta misquoted "à chacun son goût", so I didn't have to worry too much about the correctness of my French there.

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"à chacun son goût",

I must admit I'm embarrassed, having never thought about this and actually having sung the role of Orlovsky once (yeah, occasionally, a tenor does it) as well as used the piece for auditions, etc! Thanks, Fifi.

For those of you who don't know, Prince Orlovsky's aria from the Johann Strauss operetta, Die Fledermaus, is entitled "Chacun a son gout." I wonder if Strauss consciously manipulated it for word-underlay/rhythmic reasons. The word accents of "chacun a son gout" go with the rhythmic structure of the phrase as he set it in the aria. The substitution of the correct form, "a chacun son gout," would create a rhythmic problem. Interesting....