My husband and I are going to China in April. It is being planned by a well respected travel agent in that field.
I love the initial itinerary she has come up with for the 12 days we can manage to spend there.
I used this forum for a trip to Rome this past October and it was a wealth of information because of the number of travelers that go there. It's understandable why I don't see as much on China, but if anyone out there has good info, I would love it.
I must admit, this trip is not going to be a true "slow traveler" trip, like our week in Rome. We haven't much time and want to see highlights before China changes any more. (We put another planned trip on hold to do this one instead.)
Here's a rough itinerary with smaller sights and side trips not listed:
Beijing (3 nights - Silk Street Market, Forbidden City, Summer Palace, Wangfujing St, Tian An Men Square, Great Wall at Janshanling, Dirt Market, Temple of Heaven)
Xian (2 nights - Renmin Square, Bell Tower, Shaanxi Provincial Museum, pm travel to Huxian, Tang Dynasty Theatre, Clay Army)
Guilan/Yangshuo (2 nights - Full day on Li River, Liu San Jie concert, biking thru Yangshuo)
Linjiang (2 nights - Old Town, Jade Dragon Snow Mountain by cable car, Baishui Village, Yufeng Temple, Yushui Village, Longquan Naxi Village, and music at the Academy, Shu He)
Hotels and some restaurants have been planned, but we have time in each city for ourselves, mostly in the later afternoon and evenings, so if you think of anything we can squeese in, we'd love to hear about it!
Thanks, Martha
Posts: 18 | Location: Finger Lakes in New York | Registered: 06 July 2006
WOW.. I am going in November.. but plan to see shanghai.. in depth.. with my mom who is turning 80 and grew up there in the 30's and left when the communists came in.
I am not going to try to really see anything.. except shanghai, and maybe the Xian army..
Martha -- I have the same reaction as Diva -- WOW.
I can't IMAGINE touring any country like that. It's like going to three restaurants all on the same nights -- ordering a plate at each place.
Diva-- I am kind of a Shanghai expert Let me know if you have any questions about it. The French Concession of Shanghai, where your grandmother likely would have stayed, was my favorite area.
I will admit this is not the way we like to travel, but, time constraints, and probably not getting back to China in the near future, requires a "smattering" of the highlights.
Trips to other countries have always kept us in one spot, allowing us to get to know the area. Unfortunately, it won't happen this time, as much as we'd love it. A private guide and a lot of research here at home (and copious amounts of caffeine while there) should help us through most of it so we know what we're seeing.
Martha
Posts: 18 | Location: Finger Lakes in New York | Registered: 06 July 2006
Martha, We are planning a similar trip to China for 5 weeks. I pretty much have the itinerary down, but would love to know what travel agent you're using. I'd like some help on places to stay, booking flights in China etc.
I have lots of information on things to do - if you'd like I can send it to you, but it's about 6 days worth.
Have a great trip - will you be posting a trip blog as you travel?
For those of you anticipating China and maybe Tibet, you will probably enjoy my website report and photos of when we went. It was once selected as Frommer's pick of the week whatever. We had a wonderful time.Every so often, I peruse the report to remember how good it was. China and Tibet
you said side-trips not listed. Never mind side-trips, with an itinerary like that, you won't have time to unpack the whole time! Beijing and Lijiang are the 2 tips furthest apart of China. it is like seeing Europe, from Sweden to Greece and everything in between, in 12 days! In order for you to enjoy your trip, I do urge you to reduce the number of destinations, if it is not too late.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Martha:"We haven't much time and want to see highlights before China changes any more."
I agree with you that China is physically changing so much, and not for the better. But perhaps seeing half of your destinations and enjoying them is better than spending nearly most of your time in iffy airports?
I don't know the entire China. -- No one does, but I will give you some info on some of the places listed on your planning.
"Beijing (3 nights - Silk Street Market, Forbidden City, Summer Palace, ... Temple of Heaven"
The latter two are especially nice. Silk market is great fun too. but beware of "quality control". some of the "silk" and "cashmere" did not feel like such to me...
"Wangfujing St"
Wangfujing is a modern mall street. If I had only 3 days in Beijing transport included, I'd skip Wangfujing, unless I had a sudden urge to buy import designer labels that are more expensive there because of the higher import duties... With the time saved, you can - at last breathe - or ask your guide to take you to an old-style tea house.
> Great Wall at Janshanling
the Great Wall is indeed breathtaking, but I recommend the Simatai section, which is in beautiful ruins and does not have tourists. -- I bribed a taxi to take us there at 6 in the morning. We were the only people on the ruins of the ramparts. I urge you to do the same, esp if you are jetlagged anyway. Looking out onto the undulating mountainous expanse and the snaky ramparts, you do get the feeling that something - namely history - happened there.
The more popular sections of the Great Wall are so crowded you can't even walk or see anything, and if you see anything, the first thing you see is the Golden Arch and the great wall of geegaw shops.
I agree with others that the French concession has a great feel, but I don't see it on your itinerary. Sorriest I have very negative things to say about Orient Peart Tower, Xintiandi, Suzhou. In fact Orient pearl Tower is such an eye sore that whenever I sat at the terrace of the beautiful "M On The Bund" bar (I recommend this bar highly), I had to sit with my back to the tower and the entire wannabe skyline of Pudong. Imagine someone build an artifial island off the crescent Bay of Angels of Nice and pile a bunch of notso-hotso Las Vegas architecture on it. That's Pudong. I'd ask the travel agent to substitute Pudong with a tour of the French concession. Suzhou is an equally sad sight. It was built centuries ago as a pure pleasure spot - like those fountain gardens around Rome, but now you row on the lake and see a skyline of factories. The silk produced there is great. XinTianDi is the much touted "re-enacted" old neighborhood-mall. Sigh. It's not old. It is new, built to look old, like Magic Kingdom insteaad of Neuschwanstein. The entire China is going the way of theme parks, but I thought that's why you are in a hurry to go, in order not to see things like XinTianDi.
> Guilan/Yangshuo (2 nights - Full day on Li River, Liu San Jie concert, biking thru Yangshuo) Linjiang (2 nights - Old Town, Jade Dragon Snow Mountain by cable car, Baishui Village, Yufeng Temple, Yushui Village, Longquan Naxi Village, and music at the Academy, Shu He)
You probably mean Guilin and Lijiang, right? Again, I urge you either to see the east of China or the west of China. With so much transport and so much to see, you end up being very tired and not seeing much and not having any feel of the place.
"Hotels and some restaurants have been planned, but we have time in each city for ourselves, mostly in the later afternoon and evenings, so if you think of anything we can squeese in,"
you are joking !
"we'd love to hear about it!"
Asia has very good street food. Take hepatitis shots before you go and be adventurous.
Beijing has a few "trendy" restaurants that reeact the old commune style cuisine, down to the very funky inteiror. It is very peasanty and good. Not the kind of flavor you would ever get from overseas Chinese restaurants. This webpage has a list of restaurants and even a glossary of Chinese food names in both languages. http://www.cnhomestay.com/city/beijing/peking_duck.htm on the restaurant list - too long! - I recommend Black Earth. Avoid Quanjude. it has had a long time to go down hill since Nixon was there. On the list, Li Family restaurant was a cult restaurant. It used to have no name, no sign. You just go to an approximate location of town and watch out for a cluster of government cars (tinted windows, some have no license plates!) and know it's nearby. But Beijing is one of those place that change so much so fast. I don't even feel comfortable recommending these restaurants which I loved. Maybe they went bad, maybe they moved, maybe they became so successful and were listed on the stockmarket and went bust last week... Adam Pillsbury has a very good guide on Beijing. It is more hip than the conventional guidebooks and less backpacky than Lonely Planet. http://www.amazon.com/Insiders-Guide-Beijing-Pillsbury-Editor/dp/0977333418
Suzhou is an equally sad sight. It was built centuries ago as a pure pleasure spot - like those fountain gardens around Rome, but now you row on the lake and see a skyline of factories.
Hangzhou would be a better alternative to me, if it's not too late to modify the itinerary.
Off topic, with apologies to the OP, my idea of a slow travel itinerary from Shanghai would be to ride a local train north toward Nanjing or south toward Ninbo, and just hop off along the way. The cities along this stretch in the Yangtze delta region are so amazingly beautiful in April that it makes my heart arche just thinking about them -- north of Shanghai you have Suzhou, Wuxi, Zhengjian, Yangzhou, and south of Shanghai there are Hangzhou, Shaoxing and Ningbo, all beautiful cities with diverse local cuisines and interesting histories. And just outside of the delta region, there are the amazing Yellow Mountain in Anhui Province and my personal favorite, the Yandang Mountain in south Zhejiang province.
Asia has very good street food. Take hepatitis shots before you go and be adventurous.
Ok, but the resturant food is equally good and far less troublesome
quote:
SinTianDi is the much touted "re-enacted" old neighborhood-mall.
Interesting -- the agent recommended Sintaindi in Shanghai but left off Hutong in Beijing. Hutong is on the world heritage list. If you're going to see one old neighborhood in China, Hutong is where you should go. Shanghai was built in the 19th century, how old does it get?
I really am sorry to point these things out -- but I think the agent has been reading too many travel books on China instead of looking at China as an experienced traveler.
I agree with all of Steve's points, including his comment on street food / restaurant food. I speak Chinese and often overlook how "troublesome" indeed China can be for non-Chinese speaking travellers. I would like to add also that it would be regrettable to stick to hotel food the whole time one is in China. Lastly, Steve said: "I really am sorry to point these things out -- but I think the agent has been reading too many travel books on China instead of looking at China as an experienced traveler." I agree again. Hutong is a great choice and is disappearing fast, as Beijing accelerates the demolition of many of them in order to get ready for the Olympics, can you believe it? (want to bet that a re-eacted hutong-type mall is already in blue-print stage?) There are a couple of inexpensive, 3-star hotels in traditional Siheyuang architecture in a hutong, - Hao Yuan and Lu Song Yuan, etc. - which I am sure your agent will know. Lastly I also want to point out how retail seems to be the focus for a good part of your stay - lots of shopping and mall visits in Beijing and Shanghai. Is that the priority that you specified to your agent? If not, you may want to ask your agent to manage your 12-day China trip time differently. Like Steve, I feel so apologetic and off topic giving truly slowtrav info, as though I were writing to the wrong place. Bon voyage, N
What a wonderful contribution, Americana! It was so helpful and informative to anyone (like me) who is planning a trip to China in the next few months.
The tip about where to see the Great Wall is invaluable. Of course, it is on the list to see but I have heard many reports about how crowded the most popular points are and I was dreading seeing such an evocative and important part of Chinese history from under the armpits of a million other people.
I'm a bit concerned about how I'll deal with the pollution aspect. A friend of mine who has just come back from a month in China was truly distressed about it. Last night on TV we saw an English programme, "Around the World in 80 Treasures", which featured the Forbidden City and The Summer Palace. You could see that all the colours were dimmed because of the effects of the haze caused by the pollution.
Hi Valda, Thanx for your appreciation. If there is no sandstorm, Beijing is not that polluted, not compared to many other Chinese cities. As for a city like Guangzhou, breathe before you go. But pollution is indeed a huge problem in China. How to deal with it? Ask the government to change. Just kidding . Well, you can flee to an aircon mall once in a while. -- don't worry, they are everywhere. Or alternate your travels so that you visit more rural places between two cities. See Steve's recommendations re Hanghzou and neighboring places. Once I was working in Geneva and was walking by the lake with a delegation from that part of the world. One delegate jokingly told others not to breathe too deeply, lest they should get used to that clean air and become sick later when they are back in their smoggy home. Bon Voyage, N
My wife and I will be in China for 14 days starting on March 29 doing a very similar itinerary to yours.
I understand the comments of those who think that there's too many stops but I agree with you. I can afford slow travel (and do it) in Europe, where I know I'll be back, but I doubt that I will ever visit China again. Sometimes you just have to compromise.
Posts: 273 | Location: Haifa, Israel | Registered: 10 June 2005
Hi sssteve, There are now 2 Steves on this thread, therefore I allow myself to address you in this stuttering form; to distinguish you from Buddy Steve. There has been a long thread on "can one travel to all of Italy in 12 days", something like that. Many travelers contributed to the animated thread, and all their opinions - pros and cons - apply here. Need I add that, in terms of area, China: 9.6 square million km. Italy: 301,230 km. Best, N
I understand the comments of those who think that there's too many stops but I agree with you. I can afford slow travel (and do it) in Europe, where I know I'll be back, but I doubt that I will ever visit China again.
Hi Steve! Good to see another Steve on the thread. From Israel, no less. A place I long to visit.
I understand the apprehension regarding slow traveling in a country you may never to return, but, honestly, one isn't likely to see everything in Europe either. Slow travel is more of a traveling philosophy really -- it pertains to how one sees the value in traveling. Are the monuments in Xi'an so important that you would forgo an afternoon of tea in front of the West Lake? To put the question in a more familiar surrounding for most of the members here, is a trip to Pompeii worth sacrificing an afternoon trekking the hills of Umbria? Your own answers to these questions determine how you should travel. Travel, after all, is a highly personal adventure, and should remain so. What I am trying to point out though, is that there is no need for a double standard in contructing your itineraries based on where in the world you will be. A "good" trip to any place beats a hurried trip anytime. China is one of those places that I care deeply for personally, and to me, it would be a shame to have traveled there but to miss out on those quintessential Chinese experiences: an afternoon in the tea house, or an evening watching the rain hitting a Ming courtyard.
I have no pretensions of seeing "all of China" in two weeks. I call it a "survey tour" and if I am attracted enough to return, on the second trip, we'll probably concentrate in one area.
My wife and I go to Italy at least once a year, and usually spend all the time in one province. last October a week near Montepulciano, and next September a week in piemonte. In between, we make a little hop to the far east. :-)
Originally posted by buddy: ... those quintessential Chinese experiences: an afternoon in the tea house, or an evening watching the rain hitting a Ming courtyard. Steve
Hi Buddy Steve, I once stayed in such a courtyard hotel. What I treasure most about travelling is not any spectacular view but the people. Even a view like the Great Wall or Pompeii is moving because of its links with people. And (independent) travel teaches us such a wealth of human details we cannot get from books. Back to that courtyard hotel, the very nice old lady caretaker was very curious about me - in a well-intentioned way, uh, I guess. Sometimes she would stand by my window (courtyard rooms are all on groundfloor) and watch me. I tried to get used to it, knowing it was a cultural thing. But I did lose my composure the day I her her looking in, picking her nose. She was the head of the hutong street committee. So being nosy (oops, bad word choice) was sort of her business. Best, N P.S. o last but not least, Steve, I saw your fabulous photo album and recognized the village of Goult! We rented Mme Migliorini's house there last September!
P.S. o last but not least, Steve, I saw your fabulous photo album and recognized the village of Goult! We rented Mme Migliorini's house there last September!
Americana, you've got sharp eyes! Yes, we stayed at Mme Mellup's Maison Rose in Goult in 2005. What a great village!
My husband and I were in Beijing and Shanghai last April-3 days in each location. In Shanghai we stayed on the Nanjing road and enjoyed walking on that street at night. We're not night-life people, so don't go out at night to clubs, etc, but did enjoy walking on the busy street. The weather was very nice in both cities in April. I could wear a light jacket and not be too hot or too cold.
I also enjoyed walking around a lot on my own in Shanghai. I knew how to use the subway,but it was so crowded that I preferred to walk. I walked from our hotel to the teahouse and garden, that I've forgotten the name of and then through some little streets to the French concession area. I like to get away from the most touristy spots and that's easiest if you are walking and have a good map. Oh I got into some absolutely fascinating small-tine streets in Beijing, by accident. I was looking for a museum and following the directions in my guide book, but I exited the subway on the other side from where I thought I was, so I had my directions completely reversed and I walked the wrong way. It was fascinating even though I was totally lost.
Have a wonderful time. I think April is a good time to go. I don't like traveling in hot weather, but it should be nice in April.
One more thing. I never visit a place with the idea that I won't be back. Although it took me 20 years to return to China, I did. I always assume there will be a next time.
Was busy this week and no time to respond to everyone's great input.
Thank you so much!
Mactoolsix, we are using an agent out of Chicago, who was rated #1 in "Conde Naste" and "Travel and Leisure" magazines last year for trips specifically to China. Her daughter has lived there for years and she goes over at least once a year. Her name is Karin Hansen at "Frosch International Travel". I'm not a blogger, but may post my trip upon our return. I know how much others' have been a help in planning trips we've made.
Jane, your trip looks fantasic and I see pictures of things we'll be seeing.
Americana, thanks for all your help as well, especially for the personal input and websites. Lots to digest. Wangfungjing is something to do the first evening we're there - by the time we get through customs and to the hotel, unpack, have dinner, it'll be late. (I'm not a shopper at all, although we're building a new house on one of the Finger Lakes and I think this would be a great chance to buy silk for curtains.) Two of the other markets/shopping are mentioned as suggestions for evening after dinner, when a lot of things may not be open or hard to get to at that time of day. Would LOVE any suggestions from you (or anyone else) of things to search out or do in the evenings (some have mentioned teahouses - is that what you do? have tea?) Re: the Great Wall. I understand the Janshanling is a nontouristy part of the wall. Is that true, do you know? Our trip will be private guides and cars, so I'm sure we can have the driver take us to another section. Re: the Orient Pearl Tower. I had the same feeling and did read about the French Concession and crossing the river for beautiful views. We have our last evening reserved at "M On the Bund" - looking forward to it. XinTianDi is "on our own" in the evening after a day at the Yu Gardens and Shanghai Museum. That's something I can change, easily, too. Re: restuarants. I may have misled you. We won't be eating in any hotel restaurants (reviews say they're expensive, anyway), but our agent has about a half dozen dinners and lunches reserved that are highly recommended near some of the sights we'll be seeing. Most everything else is up to us. (Fingers crossed we'll choose wisely!)
Buddy, you mentioned the agent left off Hutong in Beijing. I noticed we have a "...hutong (old city "alleyway") tour by pedicab including a family visit..." listed on our itinerary in Beijing. Is that the same thing?
SSSteve, I like that! "A survey tour". There's no doubt that I much prefer the Slow Traveler way of traveling and we've done it a lot since retiring a year ago (Rome, Aruba, BVI's, Alaska, Amelia Island). I wish I could say that China is on the top of my list, but it's more for my husband. I AM looking forward to it though and wish I could stay awake 24/7 to take it all in.
And Acanthus, I'm so glad to hear April is a nice time. Makes me feel better. I also LOVE walking the side streets when I travel, as you did. You come across the neatest things when you get away from the touristy areas. I hope the hotels have good information on "off-the-beaten-path" places to head to. We did that in Rome and had the very best trip we ever had. Think I'll give the subway a shot, too. I can use NYC's with no problem!
I'll keep checking this site until we leave April 10th. I truly appreciate all the suggestions and will be doing some tweaking!
Martha
Posts: 18 | Location: Finger Lakes in New York | Registered: 06 July 2006
Topic Closed
Let me know if you have any questions about it. The French Concession of Shanghai, where your grandmother likely would have stayed, was my favorite area.
