I've looked at all the good info on France regarding trip planning, finding rentals, restaurants, etc. But have found nothing about shopping for food for meals whether for a picnic or other meals at an apartment. Farmers' markets are obvious but what about places like Migros or Coop as in Switzerland. From reading, my impression is there are a ton of specialty stores that are for bread, fish, fruit, etc. How do cities differ from villages? Helpful hints on how to enjoy the process would be nice.
We leave next September for three weeks in Alsace, a village just north of Colmar, followed by two weeks in Paris, an apartment in the Latin Quarter.
David
Posts: 116 | Location: North Lake Tahoe, CA | Registered: 26 September 2005
In the Latin Quarter in Paris, we found several small supermarkets near our apartment, as well as the outdoor market 3 days a week at Place Maubert. Also at Place Maubert, there's a wonderful cheese shop, a butcher, a couple of boulangeries, etc.
When we've shopped for groceries in Paris we've avoided the grocery stores, which always look sad to me (there may be good ones, but I don't really shop at big groceries here in the US so I didn't seek them out). But we've stayed near market streets so we could buy eggs, milk and cheese at one place, produce at another, meat at the butcher, bread at the bakery, dessert at the patisserie, etc etc. This is one reason we like to stay where we do in the 7th, because all of these stores are on the same short stretch of street. I would find out if there's such a street near your apartment. It's really important to me to stay in a good food shopping neighborhood--it's way more fun (and better quality) than shopping at a grocery. Any street market will have all of these vendors, too (in Paris they aren't farmer's markets--the vendors buy wholesale, for the most part). We also like to take advantage of the great take out on market streets and markets--the rotisserie chickens and potatoes roasted in the dripping chicken fat, the paella, etc.
Our family has had several extended stays in France (rentals and housesitting), when we've had most of our meals at home. Although we love to buy fresh produce, cheeses, roast chicken etc. at the outdoor markets, we also need to economize and buy staples of every day life. I'm a big fan of the French "hypermarches" which you'll find outside of pretty much every town of a good size. These are typically big modern superstores that offer a wide selection of food and wine, as well as clothing, books, hardware items, housewares, small electronics, health and beauty products etc. (But you have to go to a pharmacy for over-the-counter medicines.)
Although it may involve a drive of 20-30 minutes, we will typically make a weekly trip to one of these stores to stock up on things like butter, juice, pasta, sandwich meat, yoghurt, olive oil, toilet paper, shampoo etc. In between we will supplement with purchases from a little village shop, boulangerie, local market etc.
Some of the big chains you'll find are E. Leclerc, Geant, Carrefour, Intermarche, and Auchan. We find the prices to be very good and some items will be offered on special discount. I know Leclerc has a loyalty card, and I suspect this is common at the other chains too. You will need to have a euro to take a shopping cart, refunded when you return the cart. And you'll have to bring your own bags or purchase cheap reusable bags. (You may find some of these bags in your rental.) Be prepared to bag your own groceries. You should be able to pay with your American Visa card.
I think most (if not all) of the hypermarches are open until 7 pm and closed on Sunday. If you arrive at your rental late Saturday afternoon, you'll want to make a grocery run first thing.
The fuel stations associated with the hypermarches are usually the most economical places to buy gas. Go through the lane where you will pay the attendant after you've pumped the gas.
It looks like there are several of these big stores outside Colmar, including a Leclerc. When you arrive at your rental, ask the person who shows you around where to find the nearest supermarche or hypermarche. I think you'll find it an interesting cultural experience. I always really enjoy shopping at the hypermarches.
The reality of life here is that most people shop in the supermarchés and hypermarchés. A famous government-sponsored study of the French food distribution system showed that vendors in the outdoor markets, owners of small specialized food shops, and the supermarkets all sell pretty much the same produce, meat, and dairy products. Here in Saint-Aignan, we don't even have a fromagerie; we buy cheese at the supermarket (we have Champion, SuperU, and Intermarché close by, and Leclerc and Auchan about 25 miles away) or from a (great) vendor at the Saturday and Sunday markets in our area. And the prices in the butcher shops are about the same as the prices in the supermarkets, except that the supermarkets often have specials and promotions that the butchers can't match. The quality is about the same.
You need either a euro coin OR a token to get a shopping cart at the supermarkets. You can usually get a token by asking at the customer service desk inside the store. Then you don't have to worry about it any more. Keep it in your car. It's a good souvenir.
It's not easy to find paper towels, toilet paper, vegetable oil, spices and dried herbs, shampoo and bath soap, kleenex tissues, and on and on, in the outdoor markets. At small stores, you'll pay a premium for these kinds of items. The superette or supermarket is a better bet if you can haul all the stuff back to your gîte or apartment.
Personally, I don't buy bread at the supermarket. The boulangeries have a better product. And then we have bread delivery by our village boulangerie, five days a week. Last year, when I stayed in a gîte on the Ile d'Oléron, just north of Bordeaux, I heard the familiar car horn toot at about 9 a.m. and went out in the street to find the bread delivery van just a little way down the row. We bought bread from the delivery woman every day after that. She also had milk, butter, cheese, and croissants to sell.
Life in France, as in other countries, has changed a lot over the last three or four decades, since everybody can now afford a car and everybody has a driver's license. People no longer need to walk to the market to buy their food, except in the big cities. Still, it is great to have that option, and the markets are appetizing and entertaining. They are a cultural event. Sometimes you just can resist the beautiful products you see on the displays.
Some good ideas. I forgot we needed a shopping bag in Switzerland, which was furnished with the apartment. We will be sure and pack one just in case. Maybe with a picture of Tahoe just for fun.
I am really looking forward to shopping at the smaller neighborhood stores but the big stores probably best for the basics, like wine. In the past, certain basics were in the frig when we arrived so did not have to worry about eating the first night.
We are using Untours so our stay starts on a Wednesday. 3 weeks in Alsace and 2 in Paris. I anticipate better mid-week airfares than if we had to fly Friday or Saturday.
Kathy – what I was thinking is some of this information might be handy to have in the France section where one sees Trip Planning, Vacation Rentals, etc.
Christy – we will be staying on the 5th so not far from the 7th. I don’t remember my map of Paris very well but it seems that it is not much of a walk between the two. Rick Steves seems to favor ru Cler which is in the 7th. He made a big deal of the cheeses saying they smelled of the feet of angels.
Chris – good to know there is a good cheese shop nearby. I am a foodie and love to cook. Will have to find a few basic recipes to take. When we travel we usually eat breakfast at “home”, lunch out at either a café or picnic and a light dinner back home.
This is my first trip to Paris. My wife has been several times but never stayed long so she is looking forward to really getting to see things.
My goal is to get comfortable with the city and then, next trip, look for less expensive lodgings outside the city or in the suburbs where I can take the train or metro to the heart of the city. If anyone can point me to reviews of places that fit it would be great.
David
Posts: 116 | Location: North Lake Tahoe, CA | Registered: 26 September 2005
Food Shopping in Paris? Come on...it is like "heaven". It was hard to NOT buy food - just walking down the street past all of the wonderful stores. There is no lack of great places to buy a large variety of prepared and fresh food.
We were staying in a small hotel - Place de Vosges in the 4th I think it was but we frequently bought food home with us to turn into a picnic lunch or supper. It sounds as though you will be in a great area also - enjoy, I am envious.
what I was thinking is some of this information might be handy to have in the France section where one sees Trip Planning, Vacation Rentals, etc.
David, good idea.
We're getting some very good information in this thread, and I hope others will offer their ideas and experiences. I'll volunteer to pull the suggestions from this post into a travel note sometime this fall.
When the airlines "downsized" toiletries to fit into a small ziplock, we started shopping the grocery chains. We found Champion to be fine for apartment supplies, toiletries, food, sparkling water and wine. Like others, we also prefer to get fresh breads and pastries from the shops. The markets (and even roadside stands in Provence - love the cherries in season) are great for fresh fruit and cheeses. I like being offered the samples in the markets! :-)
Don't limit yourself to super/hyper -marché shopping for the wine. You can find great deals on wine in little épiceries all over Paris. Often a favorite of the owner. Sometimes the fromagere will also have some wine, as do all the little wine shops. Excellent prices everywhere.
Laura
Posts: 915 | Location: Edmonds, WA | Registered: 01 April 2006
I don't avoid supermarkets in Paris. They are quite handy when we are out of milk, sugar, etc. Most larger chains now have organic or fair trade options for many of the products and sometimes, I just don't have the time or energy to get to a bio co-op store.
That being said, we get most of our grocery shopping done at open-air markets and specialty stores. They are literally all over the city and I'm sure you'll find your own favorite in your neighborhood. We track across the city looking for the perfect cheese, butter, croissant, etc but pretty much all of our days in Paris are spent riding the metros and walking miles trying to burn off the excess calories. I can't remember the last time I was in a museum or at a monument in Paris other than passing by the Eiffel tower here and there. Shopping this way then cooking afterward is a full-time job.
At least in Paris, knowing where the open markets close to your apartment are and their opening days/time as well as a good cheese store, bakery, and wine shop should get you through your stay.
To add to what Kathy said: Auchan and Intermarché are my personal favorites as their products are always extremely fresh, and they have an excellent selection international products (produtis du monde) that are often difficult to find in smaller markets. They also have a fidelity card. In fact, the majority of hypermarchés have them these days. Also, most of them are open until at least 8pm.
Another thing to be aware of is that often you must weigh and label your fruit and veg before going to the checkout. I cannot tell you the number of times I have gotten to the checkout line and had to make everyone behind me wait while I run all the way back to the produce section; not a pleasant experience . Usually their is a scale with pictures of each of the articles, so you don't have to worry about knowing the French words.
Don't worry about packing a shopping bag. You can always purchase a big, sturdy, reusable one at the store for under a euro, and then just be sure to hang on to that one.
Another really great place for fresh produce is Grand Frais. If you are looking for a particular vegetable/fruit, you are almost guaranteed to find it here. It's a little less expensive than the outdoor markets, and they have excellent butchers as well. However their seafood selection isn't too spectacular. FYI, they weigh everything for you at the checkout in Grand Frais.
Finally, a little advice: NEVER go to a super/hypermarché on a Friday evening or Saturday. It is complete chaos as so many do their shopping this day, and you will just waste time trying to dodge fellow shoppers and their carts. The best time to go is between 12 and 2pm, when everyone else is having lunch.
The supermarkets are franchises and vary considerably from town to town. Intermarché used to be our best market, but over the past couple of years SuperU has renovated and cleaned up. Now it has the best produce, the fullest stock overall and the widest selection of wines, and the best prices.
When you are traveling, things like that might matter less. But it's worth checking out different supermarkets if you're staying a week or more, just to see the differences.
In the Intermarché near Saint-Aignan, you don't have to weigh your produce. They weigh it at the register. At SuperU, you weigh your own. Each item in the produce department has a number on its sign along with the price, so you can find it on the scale by number pretty quickly.
Outdoor markets are one of the pleasures of shopping in France, and are not to be neglected. Sometimes there are actual farmers selling farm-grown produce at the markets. And sometimes too you find local producers selling products you don't get in the supermarkets. For example, in the market in Noyers-sur-Cher across the river from Saint-Aignan, there's a poultry vendor who makes charcuterie-type products with chicken, turkey, and duck: sausages, pâtés, saucissons, and rillettes. It's all very good. Look for vendors like that in the outdoor markets.
I can't believe you guys are singing the praises of the likes of Auchan, HyperU, etc.
I know, I know lots of French shop at these places. But that's a question of convenience and price sensitivity.
For a visitor from overseas here to presumably try the best of France and experience it's culinary culture, you just can't beat a good boucherie or frommagerie or true farmer's market. And the thought of not buying your bread and pastries each day at the boulangerie is enough to make me want to throw in the towel.
If there is anything worth slowing down for in France, it's the food !
I think "singing the praises" is a bit strong. Super markets for the basics and the local specialty stores for anything/everything fresh. At least for us. And of course the entertainment value as well.
On my morning walks to the local bakery while in Switzerland for some warm goodies for breakfast it just felt good. Made some new friends, both dogs and people, and was worth every step. I hope the French coffee is as good as the Swiss. Our landlady in Switzerland upon hearing I was a coffee-holic dashed off to bring me one of those Swiss coffee machines that grinds the beans and makes an individual cup. What a treat. That and a couple of warm whole wheat croissants. Makes me want to get an airplane right this minute.
I have to admit we went to the local COOP for some bath and kitchen basics and to load up on chocolate to take home.
Posts: 116 | Location: North Lake Tahoe, CA | Registered: 26 September 2005
I don't think any of us who have posted enthusiastically about the supermarches intended that any traveler do all or even most of their shopping there.
David said he was staying three weeks in Alsace. If you're staying for a week or several weeks in a rental with a kitchen, you're more likely to need basic staples and supplies, which you can economically buy at a big supermarche to last you a week or more.
I definitely wouldn't buy my bread at Leclerc and I'd also prefer to buy my cheese and produce at the weekly market, but there are lots of things that a vacation-renter would want to buy at the supermarche: milk, juice, butter, paper products, pasta, rice, canned goods etc.
Plus, I do confess that I find it culturally interesting to visit supermarkets in different parts of Europe and see what people are buying and the types of food they eat.
Basics for French cooking: garlic, olive oil, butter, some fresh herbs, wine, what else? I am hoping I can ask around once we arrive and get some more ideas.
I want to keep it as simple as possible and not make a big mess. I do the cooking and Susan cleans up so want to keep the peace.
Posts: 116 | Location: North Lake Tahoe, CA | Registered: 26 September 2005
Auchan and Intermarché are my personal favorites as their products are always extremely fresh, and they have an excellent selection international products
quote:
the prices in the butcher shops are about the same as the prices in the supermarkets, except that the supermarkets often have specials and promotions that the butchers can't match. The quality is about the same.
quote:
I'm a big fan of the French "hypermarches" which you'll find outside of pretty much every town of a good size.
Hey Kathy !
I guess I just misunderstood the above... I obviously get the idea that vacation renters need to buy some staples. but the trip to the supermarket should be considered a painful but necessary exercise. Visitors to France should spend their food shopping time much more productively !
-Kevin
p.s.: glad you here this week and not last. This is the kind of weather that makes me realize why I live in the south of France !
I couldn't agree with you more that the local farmer's markets, boulangeries, and fromageries are the best way to go. This is such a wonderful cultural difference from what we are used to in the States.
However, many smaller towns only have markets once a week, and often the smaller shops have very particular hours. This, in my opinion, is part of what makes France a great country to enjoy "slow travelling." But this can also, as I have too many times found myself, cause a problem if you need a last minute ingrediant or have run out of toiletries. In that case, the aforementioned options are your best bet!
I have to say I also agree with Kathy that it is quite culturally interesting. But if you want to go to a Hypermarché for some people watching, I would scratch my last advice and definitely go on a Saturday!
But I guess it's like this: imagine one of your compatriots posting over on the Routard US Forum asking where to go food shopping in San Francisco ?
Would you recommend they head over to Walmart to stock up and get a glimpse of American culture ? Would you suggest this is an interesting way to spend an afternoon of their vacation time ?
Would you recommend they head over to Walmart to stock up and get a glimpse of American culture ? Would you suggest this is an interesting way to spend an afternoon of their vacation time ?
Oddly enough, I have enjoyed visiting US supermarkets - they are different enough from UK ones to be interesting to me. Supermarket shopping gives a facinating glimpse into the different real domestic lives of various countries, as lived by the inhabitants - you find yourself wondering why the Dutch need 100 varieties of liquorice, or why awnings seem to feature so prominently in French hypermarkets.
I wouldn't suggest a visit to a supermarket as part of a tour itinerary, but if Slow Travelling is about really immersing yourself in the local culture, it has a value in addition to actual food aquisition!
Posts: 1400 | Location: London, UK | Registered: 20 September 2006
In our travels, even within the United States 30+ years ago before brands became national, visiting grocery stores and supermarkets was a cultural experience.
I still remember buying a bar of soap in a grocery store in a Mexican town over 25 years ago. That bar of soap lasted over a year! And I still remember that store.
We have similar memories of food shopping in small stores and large, in many countries. In Rosia, near Sienna, Italy, my wife and I shopped for food to prepare a large dinner of future Slow Travelers. The little local store satisfied the important ingredients, but we needed to visit the Co-op as well. Strong and pleasant memories all around.
But the small store was a treat, as we had personal interactions with the staff in finding ingredients. I needed cinnamon. With limited common language of spices, it was an interesting, but memorable, and successful, conversation? That couldn't have happened at the Co-op.
Posts: 165 | Location: Richmond, CA | Registered: 29 December 2006
There is no Wal-Mart store in San Francisco. People there shop at Andronico's, Molly Stone's, or even Safeway. In France, we shop at SuperU, Intermarché, or Champion/Carrefour Market (there are changes afoot). The supermarkets are a cultural experience. The outdoor markets are too. Both are worth the time you spend in them. The products, if you choose carefully, are about the same.
Sorry to hear SF doesn't have a Walmart - talk about cultural deficient... I'll tell my French friends to skip the city altogether and head over to Mountain View for a Walmart/Target/Costco triple play.
For my food shopping last Sunday, I spent $7 at the small farmer's market at the Stonestown parking lot; $38 at Stonestown Trader Joe's; $11 at the nearby Safeway and finally $11 at the local produce market.
In 21 days, we will be in Paris for a month and looking forward to food shopping!
No hypermarche for me!
Posts: 833 | Location: San Francisco | Registered: 22 April 2005
Some of us are more catholic than the pope, or more royalist than the roi. France invented the hyper-market (a.k.a. the superstore, as in Wal-Mart) in the form of a Carrefour. If you need vegetable oil, shampoo, vinegar, dog food, coffee, paper towels, toilet paper, laundry detergent, and a million other staples, you'll need to go to a super- or hyper-market. For the rest -- cheese, fish, meat, wine -- there are many alternatives.
Local Safeway Rotisserie chicken $7.99 unless on sale for $5.99. Nothing special and often over cooked. Small Starbucks $1.50. A brewed to order in a 12 oz. cup of coffee here at a one of a kind shop at the lake $1.60. Very good and strong. Bread from Whole Foods $2.99 to $4.99 depending on type and how fancy. A great bakers special garlic with a nice crust (and I mean garlic chunks) I paid $4.99 and it was worth every cent. One pound of mass produced red potato and dill salad $2.49. My wife refers to it as "glop".
How does this stack up to markets in Paris. I get the impression, even with the weak dollar, prices are not that far apart. And my bet the food quality is an order of magnitude better in France.
We bought a very nice cabernet in Switzerland for lot less than we saw it back home. From Paso Robles, CA. Go figure.
David
Posts: 116 | Location: North Lake Tahoe, CA | Registered: 26 September 2005
Kerouac, I'm sure you are right about the majority of food in France being bought in supermarkets and hypermarkets. As has been pointed out, most small towns have an outdoor market only once a week, and you won't find staples like vegetable oil or toilet paper in the outdoor market.
I remember when I used to come to France from San Francisco, all through the '90s. It was always fun to spend a half-hour wandering through the supermarkets — Intermarché in Mallemort, north of Aix, for example, or SuperU in Saint-Aignan — to see how different they were from Safeway and even Whole Foods or Andronico's in the place they called "The City" back there.
I still think that in France there isn't a great quality difference between the meat butcher shops sell and what the supermarket sells. Maybe it depends on the supermarket and whether or not the butcher counter is a concession granted to a third party (often, I think). But I have been sold some pretty awful meat in French butcher shops and some very nice stuff in supermarkets (and vice-versa). It's all in how carefully you choose.
When you're on vacation, and when the weather is nice, it's a lot of fun to shop the outdoor markets in Paris or elsewhere in France. If the weather doesn't cooperate, don't despair. The supermarkets often have interesting and high-quality food products for sale too. And you'll probably benefit from lower prices. Did I mention the vendor in a Paris market, near Les Halles, who was selling artichokes for 15 euros apiece? Buyer beware. At the supermarket the same product sells for 1 or 2 euros.
Dunno about the supermarket vs smaller shops debate. One patronizes them for different things.
Ceci dit, I probably share Devin's distaste for supermarkets, first and foremost because they are so depressing. Why come all the way to France and subject oneself to those Gitmo-strength neon lights and interminable Kafkaesque aisles? And I am spoiled living in an area of Paris with excellent markets and smaller food specialties shops, which makes supermarket shopping much less of a necessity. Yes supermarket shopping remains a necessity. I'll go if I absolutely must. I agree with many STs here, food shopping is - and should be - a pleasure, not a chore.
Once, on the French Riviera near Biot, I found a rather good supermarket poissonnerie. That is not the case here in Paris. My "regular" poissonneries on rue des Martyrs and rue Lepic are much superior. Ditto butchers.
Of course for toilet paper etc., I don't go to a specialty shop but to supermarkets! No need to choyer my premium derriere…
[quote]"A famous government-sponsored study of the French food distribution system showed that vendors in the outdoor markets, owners of small specialized food shops, and the supermarkets all sell pretty much the same produce, meat, and dairy products." The late Michele de la Pradelle writes the same thing in her book which focuses on the Capentras market-" Market Day in Provence." For those living in Paris, I finished a birthday present, the book , " The Sweet Life in Paris." by David Lebovitz. Besides his sweet recipes, he discusses the French and their ways.I wonder if those of you living in France have read it and do you agree with his comments. He lists resources which is great for chefs and at home cooks. My favorite was G. Detou where I finally found my violett mustard, no, Maille does not sell it!
Posts: 1277 | Location: cambridge,ma.usa | Registered: 27 January 2003
It will interest many of you to learn that Carrefour is the largest hypermarket chain in the world. It is the second largest retailer in the world behind you-know-who. It is a French company but massively global.
And a little trivia: Carrefour is translated as "crossroads" (the original store was near Annecy at an intersection). The original owners had a simple motto...."No Parking, No Business".
The outdoor markets were created when it was necessary to bring the market to the people. There are still many who rely upon this system, but increasingly in France (and all over) the people do not need to wait for the market to come to them. And I for one have rarely had a hard time parking at a hypermarket, yet trying to park near an outdoor market is usually a challenge. But that being said, it is always worth the effort!
Actually, local food is making a comeback in France, because people are sick of battling their way through the hypermarkets on Saturday and are also becoming aware of the carbon imprint issue, both for their own travel and for the distance the foodstuffs have traveled.
So local markets and local food stores are getting a significant increase of clients, who are nevertheless more demanding than in the past, so the offer and the quality and the prices are improving.
"Fickle" can sometimes be a good thing when you are shopping.
Posts: 17 | Location: Paris, France | Registered: 24 September 2009
Re: Euro coin for shopping carts. Just in case anyone else besides me is baffled by the system at first glance... (and this applies all over Europe...)
The shopping carts will be chained together. Each has its own little chain on the handle. Each chain has a lock on the end. The lock has a little "key" that pokes out of one end. Each key is pushed into the chain lock on the next cart into the stack. Each lock also has a slot. Push your Euro coin into the last cart's lock. This action pushes your cart's key out of the lock in the preceding cart, thus freeing your cart from the chain-of-chains.
When you're finished with your cart, return it to the line of carts and push it into the line. Your chain will now be able to reach to the chain on the preceding cart. Push your key into the preceding cart's lock, and out will pop your Euro. Hence the admonition to keep a one Euro coin in your car: you'll use it over and over!
Maybe for the less mechanically challenged, this explanation is overkill. But it took me a while to figure it out. Finally a helpful shopper demonstrated, and boy was my face red.
Thanks! Bucky "Trying To Slow Down" Edgett
Posts: 915 | Location: Maryland | Registered: 24 April 2006
Those can be confusing the first time you run into them. We do actually have some pictures of the carts and keys in our Italy notes on Slow Travel. As Bucky mentions - it applies throughout Europe. Unlocking Shopping Carts - Photos
Those can be confusing the first time you run into them. We do actually have some pictures of the carts and keys in our Italy notes on Slow Travel. As Bucky mentions - it applies throughout Europe.
...and in some shops in San Francisco.
Posts: 833 | Location: San Francisco | Registered: 22 April 2005
In the past, certain basics were in the frig when we arrived so did not have to worry about eating the first night.
Come on...it is like "heaven". It was hard to NOT buy food - just walking down the street past all of the wonderful stores. There is no lack of great places to buy a large variety of prepared and fresh food. 
Shopping this way then cooking afterward is a full-time job.
. Usually their is a scale with pictures of each of the articles, so you don't have to worry about knowing the French words. 
