For Kathy or other moderators - Another idea, more work, sorry.

Since we will be in Alsace for three weeks with a car I was wondering what we needed to know to drive safely and get where we wanted to go.

A lot of searching around on Slow Travel and I finally found a posting (2007) that had many useful tips on driving in France. I plan to summarize the info and take it with us.

I looked everywhere I could think of under the France heading, like travel resources and travel services, and could not find anything addressing driving in France and what all was needed or not. Did I just not find it?

So, my idea is to add a heading for driving in France with some tips and other info since it seems more than one person who is going to France for the first time is anxious about driving.

Regards, David

Hi David,

We actually do have a FAQ on Driving in France, which has links to several discussions related to driving.

(But it is a good idea to develop a travel note on the main Slow Travel website about driving in France. Any volunteers out there?)

Meanwhile, does anyone else have any new suggestions to offer David?

Kathy

Hi Kathy,

Boy, quick response! Actually, I am not anxious about driving after some of the things I have read although a few tips are always welcome. For instance, the best map for finding one's way between towns or in town.

I just did not think to look in FAQ but should have.

BTW I plan to get both of us the international driving card/permit or whatever it is called.

On a slightly different subject, it is my understanding that one can rent a scooter with only a driver's license if it is under 100cc. Over that requires a motorcycle amendment to one's license. At least that is true in Switzerland.

David

Looking at a few of the links from FAQ one impression I get is that driving and drivers will vary by region. It sure does in the western U.S.

Knowing about rest stops and what they may/may not offer is also of interest.

Will keep thinking about this and see what I can come up with. Having been retired for so long I find myself organizationally challenged and although I think I like planning, I have a hard time getting to it.

David

I don't have any experience driving in France beyond Provence, Cote d'Azur and Corsica but it has been my impression that the drivers vary both by region and by density of population. I also take into consideration the type of terrain (mountainous, flat, 'country road', etc). The area around Nice is very populated and also very mountainous with curvy narrow roads. (Think of driving up the eastern Sierras to Monitor Pass or Luther Pass with heavy traffic) It was a bit stressful to drive but okay. My experience growing up and driving in the Sierras definitely helped me in the Cote d'Azur and Corsica regions. The Luberon and Provence was flatter and more like a country drive - Very easy. So were the Autoroutes.

The Michelin maps are excellent for driving in France. We used them for driving in Southern France. We have a page on Slow Travel on maps for France which describes the different types and scales used. I think our Slow Travel page is a little out of date because Michelin redid their maps recently but in general, good information. My husband and I have used both the larger regional map and the smaller department maps. My only complaint is the maps have so much detail they can be hard to read with older eyes. Take a good magnifying glass.

The Michelin 500 series maps are the bigger regional area maps and the 300 series maps are smaller department details. I would look at #516 for Alsace Lorraine and maybe #315 - Bas-Rhin, Haut-Rhin. I'm not certain where exactly you plan to travel in Alsace so you may need a different regional map. Slow Travel normally recommend TrekTools but I didn't see the Michelin #300 series regional maps on their site. I liked the organization of Language Quest site for maps.

One important thing to know about driving in France is that the sign marking city limits is the equivalent of a speed-limit sign. When you come into a town, unless there is a sign specifying a different limit, the speed you are allowed to drive is 50 kph.

On two-lane roads out in the country, the limit is 90 kph. On four-lane espressways, it is 110 kph. And on the autoroutes, it's 130 kph. When it's raining, all the speed limits are lower by 10 or even 20 kph.

Another rule drivers in France follow is always moving into the right lane as soon as you can on a multi-lane road, especially the autoroutes. No cruising in the passing lane as in California, in other words. You will make other drivers angry if you do that.

Getting the hang of the round-abouts is interesting. You aren't supposed to stop when you come to a traffic circle, unless there is another vehicle coming around. Vehicles in the circle have the right of way. If you are not sure which road off a circle you need to take, it's perfectly acceptable to go around several times as you look for your direction.

Hi David and Susan
Alsace is a really pretty area and the towns are very close to each other. Beware of bells ringing in some towns all night and if you are close to the German border then you will hear an echo of bells - every 15 minutes. Some people find this enchanting.....
Alsace is conducive to driving. The mountain region is like any other with windy roads but the villages in the wine area, generally the villages in the lower slopes, are connected by very good roads.
Some points we always advise friends who visit us are:
1. Drive on the left right side of the road (if you're from USA that's not unusual for you)
2. Be prepared to have the car behind sit on your rear - they just do!
3. French drivers will pass you no matter what. They can sometimes sit in front of you after they have passed and do the same speed as you but they just have pass. It's genetic!
4. You must carry your passports and your carte gris for the car with you in the car at all times. This can be annoying as, for me, carrying my passport, even to go up the shops, is annoying and a security risk. But we have had English friends who were stopped and given an on the spot fine for not carrying their identification papers and appropriate driver's licence.
5. If you stop for any reason that is unusual then if you are the last car in the road you will need to put on your hazard lights. You also need to carry in the car 2 emergency triangle with a luminous safety jacket.
6. Think about getting some maps of Germany before you go as you are so close and it's a lovely region. You just pop over the Danube by a bridge or free ferries. The tourist offices there give lots of advise and have detailed maps of the region so if you decide last minute to go there they can help. Their road signs are weeny though.
Hope you have a wonderful time. One of my fondest memories was a typical Alsace meal in an Auberge. Loads of potatoes, meat, sausages and of course cabbage and full of locals all chatting a laughing.
The white wine is really something and the storks an added attraction.
Bonne chance.
Wozzies

Edited to change to right side of the road - marta

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Marta,

"On a slightly different subject, it is my understanding that one can rent a scooter with only a driver's license if it is under 100cc."

In France you can drive a 125cc motorbike. :-)

Thank you all, some very helpful information. I do have several Michelin 500 series maps and will take a look at the 300 for Alsace.

We chose Alsace for itself as well as its proximity to Switzerland and Germany. With three weeks to explore we hope to spread out a bit.

David

If you are driving on the main motorways (they are indicated by a blue sign and the name of the road, which is A + a number):

At the toll booth lanes you have the choice between the Smartpass (télépéage Libert-t), credit card, or teller. Although often longer, it is best to go directly to the tellers, because foreign credit cards do not always work in the automatic machines.

Also, a rest area is called an aire d'autoroute.

Here is the motorway website (it's in English as well):http://asf.fr/control/index.aspx?alias=Internet2007Anglais.home

Jeni

I'd advise finding an illustrated guide to road signs. If you learn them (they're more numerous, in many cases unfamiliar to non-European drivers, and while pictorial not always self-evident) and exercise reasonable caution there's little to be worried about while driving outside congested areas.

You don't need an international drivers' license to rent a car or drive in France.

Dave

We've driven all over France with no issues. We didn't go out of our to "bone up" on driving there and didn't encounter anything unexpected. (We did read in our guidebook always to say "bonjour" and "au revoir" to the tollbooth workers). So I don't think you will have problems. Getting from place to place is SO easy because intersections are so well signed--just always know the general way you are going (have a map) and you will find your way to the town or sight with no problem.

Only advice I'd add is note your diesel/regular business at the pumps. Sometimes there are two buttons (one diesel/one reg) and they can be on the pump or the handheld 'filler' thingy. And diesels are very quiet and smooth these days, don't make any assumptions. Check your specs!

(Yes, speaking from experience!)

Cheers!
Alecto

Good advice re. diesel. I am hoping to get a diesel through Renault Eurodrive. I'm now thinking driving in France will be fine as long as we avoid the big cities.

Wish I could drive my new Miata in France and the Alps.

French gas stations all have credit card pumps that only take cards with the chip insxide. US cards do not have them. Thus you need a maned station to pay cash or swipe your card inside.

Many stations are unmanned from 12 to 2 for lunch (hey its France). Thus you must always be aware of your fuel situation and think about fill ups at around half a tank. We have come real close a couple of times. And since our RV is a diesel - well running out of fuel and getting a restart is a whole different nightmare from a gasoline powered motor.

Minimum map - 1 to 250,000 anything bigger will only hurt you and make you cry. Rent a GPS; absolutely - get it to speak english.

You will get lost.
More than once.
Enjoy the ride.

Last time I posted about this, it generated a lot of disagreement.

The rule of the road is priority from the right. In France, drivers are more cautious than in Belgium and some other countries, but priority from the right rules, unless :

* there is a specific give way sign
* there is a dotted "give way" line on the road
* you are in a commune that has the "not priority from the right" sign on the entry border
* the junction you are approaching had the "you have priority" diamond


So

Priority to traffic coming from the right :


You have right of way :


Follow the instructions of the sign :




If there are no signs, priority from the right rules - take care.

This is the cause of the majority of accidents involving foreigners.

Most minor junctions are priority from the right.

Peter

Edited to change linked graphics Graphics from Wikipedia European Road Signs and Priority to the right entry - marta

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Marta,

In practice, we don't find the "priority to traffic coming from the right" slows down our driving significantly. Most main roads in fact have priority at intersections with minor roads, over-riding the general rule, and this is indicated by the diamond sign shown above; also the road sign as you approach the junction is "+" shaped with the vertical arm wider than the horizontal, to indicate that you have priority. At junctions where the general rule applies the sign is "X" shaped.

You need to be aware of the "give way to the right" rule on minor roads in the countryside, but in practice this means no more than that you need to approach every junction with caution, as you would whatever the priority rule was. Since traffic tends to be very light on French rural roads and there is normally good visibility near junctions (since there are few high hedges), you can normally keep going at a reasonable speed.

We find that the "priorité a droite" rule is more of a problem in towns, where it is easy to forget in the congestion that cars, scooters and bikes can dart out from the right.

I don't think anyone has mentioned above that much petrol/diesel/gas is sold at supermarkets. It is normally a few cents cheaper. Although the pumps are self-service they are normally divided into separate lanes for those where you pay by cash or card at the pump and those where you pay a human cashier. Look for the "Caisse" signs. The automatic payment pumps are often open 24 hours a day. The cashier is generally present during the hours when the store is open.

Yes, fuel is less expensive at the supermarchés and hypermarchés than at service stations, and much cheaper than at service stations on the autoroute. Remember however, when fueling up outside business hours, that chip-less U.S. credit cards will not work at the pumps. You need a French card with a chip on it. Or you need to fuel up during regular business hours, during which there is an attendant in the pay booth.

Priority on the right seems to me to be a minor problem for American drivers in France. Out in the country, as WSB said, traffic is very light and it's easy to just be careful at each intersection. In cities — near here, in Tours, for example — there are many blind corners where traffic coming for the right has priority, even when you are under the impression that you are on the main street, so you really have to be careful. Caution is the best strategy in all situations.

You've got a lot of information here, and I am only adding my reassurance that driving in France is not a problem. We found the drivers no more prone to speeding or recklessness than at home, and they do enforce drunk driving strictly so that is usually not an issue. We love the roundabouts and you do get used to their style of signposting and directing you through towns and in the right direction.
I also want to add that we leased through Renault several times, and we had a fabulous experience.
Linda

Regarding buying petrol/diesel at supermarkets I should have mentioned that, assuming you want to pay at the Caisse, after filling up at the pump you don't leave your car at the pump and walk over to the cashier (as you would at a British supermarket); instead you drive from the pump to the cashier's booth to pay. This is a pain for those of us with the steering-wheel on the right because we have to get out and go round to pay!

Also, for some reason, supermarkets are very mean with the amount of space that they allocate to filling stations, so there is generally very little room for manoeuvering, and it can be a tight squeeze between your car and the pump!

For those who are already in France and who'd like to know where to buy at the cheapest price check this link prix carburants When you spot one, click on the name to locate it.

I have driven in France twice - Paris to Loire Valley and back, and Provence. The best thing you can do is take a GPS with you. I used my Garmin 660, and it was a life saver navigating in the Luberon area of Provence, just two weeks ago. For me, navigation is always the most challenging aspect of driving in unfamiliar territory. A good backup map is a good augmentation to give complete piece of mind.

Hi All,
Great site that I use often. Thanks for being here. I am not really anxious about driving in France but I have a couple of driving questions that I hope someone can help me with. I am not sure if this should be a new post.

Our plans are for the middle of June,2010. We should be arriving at CDG at 11:30 AM. I am thinking of renting a car at CDG (Auto Europe says it will send us a GPS before we leave) and driving to the Loire Valley intending to spend a couple of nights at "Hotel de la Loire" in Sancerre, then leaving the car at a train station and taking the train to Paris.
The 2 routes from CDG to the hotel are A5 which seems to be about 1/2 hour longer than A77, but also seems to skirt Paris. Would trafic at that time of day on A77 be worth avoiding? We shouldn't be too tired for both hubby and I have no problem sleeping on planes(or anywhere else for that matter). The driving time seems would be between 2&1/2 and 3 hours. Which route do you recommend? And do you know of a restaurant along the way for lunch?

Also, is it advisable to leave the car and take a train to Paris? The traffic did look rather formidable when I reversed the google map. I assumed the train could leave us close to the Marais district where our apartment rental is located. Do any of you know if there is a train station in the Sancerre area?
Thanks again as always any suggestions would be greatly appreciated- this leg of our trip is not written in stone yet.

quote:

is it advisable to leave the car and take a train to Paris?

Yes. You can drive all the way up to the Orly airport. From Orly, there are many transport options into town: train, bus, Air France coach… Then you don't have to deal with the nightmarish périph traffic.

As for driving immediately after you arrive, even if you don't think you will be tired, do consider factors other than fatigue, such as dealing with a different signage system, in another language. You may consider resting the first night in pretty Senlis which is quite near the airport.

Bon voyage.

I find driving in France to be easier and more enjoyable than driving in the US.

At that time of day, I would take the A6 to the A77, going around the Paris boulevard périphérique. It might be slow for a few miles around Paris, but it shouldn't be a big deal. Then take the A6B (or A6A if you miss the first turn-off) and the A6 until you get to the A77. The exit for Sancerre will be just after the Cosne exit.

Sancerre isn't really the Loire Valley, even though it is close to the Loire River. It is almost in Burgundy. It's a beautiful little town.

Trains from Sancerre back to Paris go from nearby Tracy-sur-Loire. Can you turn the rental car in there, though? That I don't know.

I would plan to return the rental car at nearby Cosne-sur-Loire, though you are likely to be limited to Hertz, or in Nevers, roughly an hour from Sancerre, where the Avis and Hertz agencies are close to the train station and trains to Paris are more frequent, including non-stop trains.

Also, there is a short bus connection between Sancerre and Cosne-sur-Loire, making Cosne rather than Tracy the better choice for train access to Sancerre. At Tracy, the only option is a taxi cab.

While in Sancerre be sure to visit the multi-story state-of-the-art Maison de Vins, which presents the Sancere vineyards. Among its feaures are outstanding themed films in French and English.

Dave

Thanks for all the great info.

Im an American living in the French Alps and the one main difference you need to be aware of is the sign just before an intersecting street that has a big black X on it. That means the people coming out of that road have the priority and YOU have to stop to let them out. That is the hardest thing for an American to get used to because people on the main road in America always have the right of way. So look for those signs! Your Miata would have done very well in the Alps - too bad. We do tons of motorbiking here which is great! Cynthia in the French Alps

As you approach a junction where the "give way to the right" rule apples you see this sign:


If you have priority you see this:

Edited images to link to public domain copies from Wikipedia Priority to the Right entry - marta

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Marta,

My fave sign is the exclamation point sign.

Exclamation mark is just a general warning. They want you to pay attention but it's not something worth it's own sign.

You mean this sign?

Just to emphasise the point ...........

This sign : means :

1)You are entering the commune of La Capelle Masmolene
2)The rule of the road in La Capelle Masmolene is priority from the right unless indicated otherwise at individual junctions

Peter

Village sign from Wikipedia entry of city limit signs in France - marta

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Marta,

quote:

Originally posted by Roz's Driver:
You mean this sign?

Yup they are warning you of a danger. All the signs in that shape and colour are warning signs of some sort.

And remember that the city limit sign is also a speed limit sign -- it means the speed limit is 50kph (30 mph). Be careful.

This is a great thread on driving and rules in France. It is very helpful to have images of the signs and their meanings. But we need to be careful linking to images on other websites. Linking to images will steal bandwidth from other sites or violate copyright. I've had to remove several of the images posted earlier in this thread because of hotlinking to other websites. I'm going to look for images that we can link and also give a couple of great reference sites for driving rules and signs.

Americans in France is a great resource. They have a good section specifically on driving in France and extensive section on road signs.

Central France tourism site has a good section on driving in France. It is a bit specific to a UK driver but does include some good recommendations and explanations of the primary signs mentioned above.

A B&B in Normandy has a good page on their site devoted to motorcyclists but it looks like a great resource for everyone driving in France - Driving or Riding in France. They also have a link to a pdf of the common French Traffic signs - in French.

And here is a link to the official French site for traffic signs (Les signaux routiers).

quote:

Originally posted by Roz's Driver:
You mean this sign?

Roz's driver looks as though he should be posing with the question-mark sign.

We spent last October driving around the bottom half of France and had the option of upgrading the rental car to one with GPS so I would strongly recommend that; alternatively take a portable GPS with you.

quote:

We spent last October driving around the bottom half of France

Do you mean the south?
Or do you mean, like, the pits of France?

I find that in rural France not everyone knows how to use a roundabout. Some people stop on the roundabout to let you join it, presumably because you are coming from the right and that is ingrained in their driving habits. So conversely I am always on the lookout on a small roundabout for someone charging on without stopping even if there is already a car (me) on the roundabout.

Paolo

Marta,

It would be interesting to know what the rules are about linking to pages or images on other sites are when you are posting to Slow Travel.

We have put 40,000 miles on our RV driving throughout Europe. France can be one of the most exasperating places to drive. In particular the signage is not all that it could be. And often far less than what it should be.

Each department spends spends differing amounts of money on this so the quality of the driving experience can be different from department to department.

Having said that, our experience was greatly improved when we added a GPS to our equipment list. Previously in France we came close to divorce when the art/science of navigation was lost to the Navigator of this big machine. Since GPS we have returned to wedded bliss.

Yes you will get lost once or twice - it is a French law. So enjoy the ride as often those newly discovered places are very interesting.

Other fun roads: the narrow ones of England, the Greek ones filled with young men who have a death wish, the absolutely crappy ones of Russia and any secondary road in the Alps with dramatic drop offs and no guard rails.

Enjoy the ride
Que sera, sera

There are two items to consider when linking to photos hosted on other websites. The first, we should respect the copyright of the photos. Some photos fall under a creative commons copyright which allow sharing, remixing, reuse. You can post them but you need provide a link attributing it to the original photographer. Creative Commons licensing is noted on Flickr photos and Wikipedia will also list their licensing.

The second is where it is hosted. Some sites like Flickr or photo bucket will host the photo and allow linking to it. But if it is on a private website, then we should not link to it unless it is the poster's own personal website. This is also referred to as hotlinking. It can take up bandwidth on the website and be costly to the website owner. Some website owners do check for hotlinks and we have been contacted occasionally in the past to remove the link.

As a general rule, you should only link to photos that you have taken and are hosted on either your private website or a website that allows sharing.

BTW, if you are wondering what we are talking about - linking to a photo uses the landscape icon on the toolbar (second from the right end) and allows you to embed a photo in the post versus attaching a single photo.

Thanks, Marta. Maybe all this is explained elsewhere, but I hadn't seen it.

Re péages - We found this past May that even though the machines couldn't read our Visa cards, the American Express card was accepted.

Love the exclamation mark photo. The sign we fear seeing is "Deviation." You get on a detour but don't always get directions back to your original route.

My favorite things about driving in France (other than that means I'm actually in France) are the Centre Ville directional signs and the signs that direct you to the next town. It's so much easier than looking for road names or numbers. If you know where you're headed, it's hard to get lost.

quote:

Originally posted by Elizbuth:
My favorite things about driving in France (other than that means I'm actually in France) are the Centre Ville directional signs and the signs that direct you to the next town. It's so much easier than looking for road names or numbers. If you know where you're headed, it's hard to get lost.

That's exactly how we ended up making our way around..just find a town that's enroute. After reading this thread and laughing a bit, I broke down and ordered a GPS with Europe maps

"Toute droite" was my bete noir.

And I have in the past and continue to totally disagree with the idea that the navigate by names system is better than navigating by route numbers. Both require having a map to work efficiently all the time. So if you're going to have to use a map, you might as well look at route names or numbers. There are plenty of times you won't find a sign naming and pointing to your destination. But if you know you want to stay on the Dsomething until you get there, a simple route number will always do the trick.

I was just driving around with my nephew, and there was no problem at any toll booth using his card in the automatic machines. The same was true when my parents used their American cards in the toll booths. I am really beginning to believe that all of these reports of Visa and MasterCard being rejected is just a case of people inserting their cards backwards or upside down. European cards have an arrow on them to show how they should be inserted into machines. I really don't think it would be all that difficult to put an arrow on American cards.

Also, I might have missed it scrolling through, but I don't think that I saw anybody addressing the concept of turning left at a busy intersection. In France, people almost always create an imaginary "traffic circle" and turn left BEHIND each other. Americans always want to turn left IN FRONT OF each other, and this can be a big problem when they are driving in France.