Starting and ending our provencal trip in Paris.
We are looking for recos on a nice village to stay in on the way down and back up again. Will be driving. Bonus points for a nice B&B reco thrown in too :-)

Thinking of maybe Borges and also Lyon.

P.S. Have rented an apt for a week in Bonnieux thanks to this forum.

Thanks in advance, John in Toronto

quote:

Originally posted by DUH CAR:
Starting and ending our provencal trip in Paris.
We are looking for recos on a nice village to stay in on the way down and back up again. Will be driving. Bonus points for a nice B&B reco thrown in too :-)
Thinking of maybe Borges and also Lyon.

Hi John,
Between Paris and Provence, I like to stop south of Beaune in any village in the cluster of competing beautiful winegrowing villages. The geographic point is also the well-divided midpoint of the journey.
I find the surroundings of Lyons beautiful but find many other towns and villages on the route much more "visitable" than Lyons.
Where is Borge?
What are recos?
Bon voyage.

Sorry -- Borge should be Bourges.

And recos are recommendations. Sort of an abbreviation.

So what do you recommend beside Lyons?

I was not recommending Lyons.
I was recommending the south-of-Beaune area.

Hi John! Welcome to Slow Travel and bonjour from Bonnieux.

Have you considered traveling between Paris and Provence by train? It is a 2-1/2 hour trip by the high-speed train and much more relaxing than the drive. (And given the cost of fuel, tolls and extra days of car rentals, it would probably be cheaper.) You could potentially use those two other nights to enjoy some other areas of Provence.

Just a thought for you. What time of year will you be traveling?

Kathy

I agree with Americana - Beaune. I've never considered Lyon a village - it's the second largest city in France (Marseille is about the same size). It certainly does not have a village feel.

On the way back, consider Perouges - east of Lyon.

We've spent considerable time vacationing in the regions between Paris & Provence. Most of the route (assuming you're driving on the freeway) is rathar non-scenic unless you get about 1 hr directly east or west of the main freeway. Burgundy & Beaujolais are the exceptions. Things get more scenic once you get to Provence.

My second favorite city in France is Dijon - which is a short TGV ride from CDG. However, I would not consider that a village either.

Bourges was OK - but I much prefer Dijon for a city of about the same size. I also like Troyes - but that's pretty close to Paris & wouldn't be a good mid-stopping place.

That's a tough drive. When we visit Provence from Paris or CDG we take the TGV to Avignon or Aix..

If you had 2-3 nights for the trip, a route through the Alps would be fabulous. Hitting the Puy du Dome region would be quite scenic also - but you would need 2-3 days for that also.

Hi Kathy and Stu. Thanks for the welcome. I had considered the train but there are three of us and we are going to need a car at the end anyway. I figured it was a wash.

We will be there the end of Sept/ beginning of October. We leave Paris Wed morning but can't get into the apt in Bonnieux until Saturday, so we essentially have 3 days to get from Paris to Bonnieux.

My wife said that Beaune looked good too. Hmm maybe two nights in Beaune and one in Dijon?

Stu - I'll have a look at Perouges, thanks. Any recos for a place to stay for one night (2 BDRM)?

It's best on your initial post to tell us how many nights you have for this trip. Also specify the day of the week (lots of things are closed on Sunday, & Monday morning).

Now that I know you have 2 nights to get to Provence, you can do it a little more leisurly.

How many nights do you have coming back???

I'm a little tied up now, so I may not reply in more detail with suggestions till later today or tomorrow.

Lots of castles & churches in Burgundy. Some cute villages there too (not as cute or as many as in Provenece, IMO). You obviously can't see them all in 2 1/2 days. What is your preferrence?

Just recounted - you have 3 nights & perhaps 3 1/2 days.

Do you mind 3 nights in 1 place, & 1 in another? Do you like Chateaux with pretty gardens. Do you want to stay in a city, or in a B&B in the countryside with a village (with restaurants) 10 mins away?

Here goes with itinerary details so far:

Paris - 4 nights
Leaving Paris Wed am. Pick up a car
Wed night - Beaune? tbd
Thurs night - Beaune? tbd
Fri night - maybe Nimes or Avignon tbd
Sat night through to next Friday (7 nts) - Bonnieux
Sat night - Perouges? tbd
Sun night - Epernay region to be close to CDG - tbd
Mon - flyback to Toronto in afternoon

Hey, one night in a chateaux would be nice, but we like B&B's. Villages are great as you can go to a cafe or bakery in the morning if breakfast isn't included and stagger walk back after a nice dinner. For example we stayed in San Gimignano for 2 weeks and did day trips from there. That's what we are planning to do in Bonnieux.
But am open to people's ideas going south and on the return.

This is what I would do.

You will need the Michelin Green Guide for Burgundy, plus Michelin Map 320.

Leave Paris by 8:30am & head to Auxerre. You should arrive in Auxerre around 10:30 to 11. Remember, shops & many sites close for a 2-3 hr lunch anytime between noon & 1 – so that’s why you’ll need to leave Paris somewhat early. There is ample parking next to the river. There’s a map of Auxerre in the Green Guide. Pick up a free walking guide (brochure - in English) at the tourist office near the Tour de l’Horloge. This is an excellent walk. However, spend the first hour poking around the main shopping streets in Auxerre, and take the remaining portion of the walk during or after lunch. There are markings on the street that you can follow – unless the street has been recently repaved. Spend about 2-3 hrs in Auxerre. We opted for sandwiches for lunch while sitting on a bench near the Tour de l’Horloge. Auxerre is one of our favorite cities.

Next, leave Auxerre east on the D965 towards Tonnerre, then to Tanley. Visit the Chateau Tanley. www.routedesducs.com has most of the Chateaux in the region that are open to the public, with admission times, etc. The individual site for Tanlay doesn’t seem to work (last time I checked). My brochure from ’06 says 1 hr guided tours are at 10, 11:30, 2:15, 3:15, 4:15, & 5:15. Try to make the 2:15 tour (leave Auxerre by 1:30).

Next, head south on the D518 toward Ancy le Franc (another wonderful chateau – but you won’t have time), then the D905 to Abbey de Fontenay. Visit the Abbey & grounds. See the web site & Green Guide for details. My ’06 brochure says its open 10 to 6. Plan on 1 ½ hrs for touring, or less if you arrive after 5.

After Fontenay, head northwest on the D905 then the D956 to Noyers. This is a real cute village (much more interesting than Flavigny sur Ozerain, IMO, where the movie Cocolate was filmed). However, I doubt very much if you’ll have time for a visit, unless you got a real early start today and make the 2:15 tour of Tanlay.

After Noyers, head to Vezelay for the evening. Read about Vezelay in the Green Guide. This town has lots of religious appeal, and if you’re big into that – you’ll enjoy it quite a bit. The Village is charming, but a little touristy. Michelin gives the Basilique Ste Madeleine their top ranking. We stay in Gites (houses) while traveling, so I don’t have any hotel recommendations.

Next morning, explore Vezelay a tad.

After Vezelay, head to Dijon on the freeway. Dijon is my second favorite city in France. Park near the train station, and hit the tourist office close to there (see the Green Guide). Pick up a copy of their famous “Owl Walk” and follow it. Plan to have lunch in Dijon. The best meal we’ve had in the last 5 years was at Stephane Derbord, but plan on a 2 ½ hr lunch if you dine there. If that’s “too much” for you, there are plenty of cafes & restaurants on pedestrian only streets in Dijon. Try one on the pedestrian portion of Rue Am. Roussin. Lots of stuff to do in Dijon – see the Green Guide for suggestions. My favorite thing to do is just wander around there.

After Dijon, head to Beaune for 2 nights. This will be a nice contrast to Paris, Auxerre, and Dijon since it’s much smaller. It’s one of my 3 favorite villages in France (others are Sarlat & Colmar). Poke around Beaune a bit. Again, no hotel recs because we stayed in a Gite near Beaune for two weeks in ’06.

Next morning, visit some of the sites around Beaune. If you’re a wine enthusiasts, visit some of the famous villages, or even some wine “things” in Beaune. Visit Chateau Rochpot (see the Green Guide) – but to get there take the D17 from Pommard west and then south to Rochepot. This is a very scenic road. I won’t “load up” today, since you’ll need a “down day” about here.

Saturday morning – market day in Dijon. This is an excellent market. Spend some time there.

After the market, head south on the freeway. Take exit # 27 just north of Tournas & wiggle your way west on the D215 to Chateau Cormatin. This is a great chateau with a fabulous garden. My ’06 guide says its open 10-12 and 2-5:30. It’s not in the Route des Ducs site – this chateau is in a different region. We also spent 2 weeks in a Gite in Beaujolais in ’06.

After Cormatin, off to Provence

[edited by Chris to fix link]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Chris,

The only caution I would offer about Stu's itinerary is that it has you doing a lot of visiting while you will have all your luggage in the car. I have a friend whose car was broken into while she was touring a chateau in France, and EVERYTHING was stolen -- all of her suitcases and personal possessions except what she happened to be carrying. It completely ruined her trip to France. After hearing her sad story, I have planned all my trips so that I will not be doing any away-from-the-car sightseeing with a car full of luggage. Of course, many people do this without a problem, but I just don't want to take that risk.

When we went to Provence a few years ago, we took the TGV from Paris to Avignon, then drove to Bonnieux. After a week's stay there, we drove from Bonnieux to Beaune in one day, and then from there it was an easy drive to Paris. So you could do it in reverse -- go from Paris to Bonnieux or Dijon and spend your 3 nights there. There is so much to see and enjoy in that area, you will definitely not be bored.

Or your original itinerary going to Bonnieux from Beaune by way of Nimes would also be good. I'm not sure how long the drive would take, but just make sure you have time to see the Pont du Gard, which I think is one of the wonders of the world.

- Roz

Whenever we travel with luggage in the car and have to park the car, we back it up against a lightpost, wall, tree, or anything else solid. That way the trunk can't physically be opened. Others have used bicycle chains & looped it through the handles of their luggage to make it more difficult to fiddle with the stuff.

You usually are required to check out of a hotel by 10 and can't check in to your next hotel till 4. Does that mean you can't visit anyplace like a chateau, village, etc between 10 & 4? I dont want to schedule my (too short) vacation around securing my luggage so the chances of it getting stolen are reduced from almost nil to almost 0 (things get stolen from hotels).

DUH

On your return to CDG - that's a lot of driving with little sightseeing of you need to be near CDG Sunday night. I hate that drive anyway.

Here is what I would do.

For your last Saturday, visit the morning market in Apt (10 mins from Bonnieux). It's a very nice market. Then head over to the Pont du Gard & visit. Then visit Uzes in the afternon. Then head to St Remy & stay 2 nights there - Sat & Mon. Usually shops are closed in towns on Sunday - but most will be open in St Remy. Visit St Remy Sat evening. Sunday morning visit Les Baux & the Alpillies. Return & explore St Remy in the afternoon.

Early Monday (actually VERY early) drive to the Avignon TGV station & take the TGV directly to CDG for your flight home. I would rehearse your drive from St Remy to the TGV station on Sunday, to get familiar with the route & figure out how things work at the parking lot, rental office, and station. There is a train that leaves at 6:11am & gets to CDG at 9:30, and another that leaves at 7:45 & arrives at 11:00.

We always preferred Avallon. We like the "Moulin des Ruats." We always returned for a night on our way to Provence. It's a place where MFK Fisher and later, I had my first bleu truite.
Another stop was Leslie Caron's hotel on our way back in Villeneurve -sur-Yonne.

quote:

You usually are required to check out of a hotel by 10 and can't check in to your next hotel till 4. Does that mean you can't visit anyplace like a chateau, village, etc between 10 & 4?

You can almost always arrange to leave your luggage for a while at the desk, either at the hotel you are leaving or the one you are going to, even if you can't check in. The idea of backing up to a wall is fine, but not all parking lots offer that possibility.

It's a personal decision whether you want to take that risk. And if you've stopped in a small village which isn't likely to have a lot of crime, it's probably not much of a risk. But if you are in a parking lot of a big tourist attraction like a chateau, the risk is larger.

I'm not really a fearful person, but having known someone who went through the awful experience of being robbed, I guess I tend to be more wary. It's just something to think about, and at least take whatever precautions you can to prevent it happening to you.

- Roz

quote:

You can almost always arrange to leave your luggage for a while at the desk, either at the hotel you are leaving or the one you are going to

Huh?? In this case he would have to leave the bags back in Paris, or in Vezelay or Beaune & do a lot of backtracking. He would loose quite a bit of valuable mid-day touring time.

I've left my bags at hotels several times - and usually they are stuffed into a big closet with lots of other bags. Sometimes the closet is locked & sometimes not. When I retrieved my bags later - nobody checked to see if they were really MY bags. Personally, I feel safer with the bags in my car than locked in a hotels communial storage place.

It kinda depends on what your last horror story was. If they were stolen from the car, you make plans on minimizing that - if they were stolen from the hotel - you make that your emphasis.

So far, I've not had anything stolen

It seems to be a radical move to eliminate the travel all together just because one has luggage.

Very often I travel with bags in the trunk.
I tell those who travel with me not to open the trunk and expose its contents in a parking lot or any public area.
Some of my fellow travellers sort of treated me as a paranoid person.
One nitwit even left her purse on the car seat. -- why have one's purse if one were to leave it in the car, btw?

One can also take other precautions: parking in a well-frequented, well-monitored spot; or choosing for lunch a restaurant with a private parking area and asking the restaurant to allow one to leave the car there for a part of the afternoon. In France restaurants are closed between meals, therefore restaurants are not expecting crowds in the middle of the afternoon and usually happily say yes to this request.

Stu and Roz - many thanks for your posts!!

Great suggestions on places to visit and stay, and in securing your trunk from thieves. I think I will take the TGV back up to CDG on the return and just drive the one way (down). The timing works well as our party has flights at 1pm to Vancouver and 4-ish to Toronto. Certainly less stress that day......

Now need to research the TGV and book some places. This forum will be a great help.