Ok, another question from me as I plan our Sept 03 trip to Provence (with a side trip to Tuscany, of course :-)

How much French should I know before heading to Provence? I spent years learning French quite a long time ago and I plan to take some refresher lessons before we leave.

In 1985, I was in Quebec, Canada and they were pretty demanding when it came to speaking French. Not only did you need to speak the language, but you had to speak it *well*.

Comments from non-French-residents are appreciated.

Thanks,
Paul

Paul:

For me, the more language I have before I'm in any given locale, the better. I always feel more comfortable being able to converse in a foreign language. Also the more initiative I show, the more the native speakers of that language seem to be willing to help me out. I think that this goes for just about everywhere in Europe, certainly, and probably elsewhere.

I spent 7 weeks in Nice and Provence in 93. In larger towns, people (especially in restaurants and hotels or in any place where there were tourists) spoke English. The smaller the town, the less English was spoken. It was very useful to have a good amount of French when I was in more remote areas.

I didn't, however, feel any kind of *demands* made about the quality of my French knowledge and usage. Your observation about your time in Quebec is interesting. When you refer to the Quebecois being demanding - do you mean in public places -- hotels, restaurants, shops, business situations, etc? If that in fact is true, could it have something to do with the nature of French Canadian politics? I don't know much about it, but perhaps the Quebecois are particularly adamant (if you want to make a generalization) about using French and not English. If that's the case, I don't think that it's the same in Provence. I think that attitudes towards use of French by foreigners in Provence are much like those in other parts of France.

Hope this helps.

David, usually in NYC

I've been to Provence 3 times over the past few years and loved every minute, even though my French is not very good. In some ways, it depends on you and what you're looking for. If you're there to see the sights and don't mind if you have a lot of interaction with local people, you can manage with the usual few tourist guidebook phrases. But understanding and speaking French will make your experience much richer since there seemed to me to not to be many English speakers away from the larger towns. I don't remember ever encountering anyone with an "attitude" about the quality of my efforts--maybe because I was clearly hopeless.

I am in Provence a couple of times a year on average, and though I speak French I am often with or around other people who do not. I have never sensed any demanding attitudes of the part of the provençal people with regard to speaking French, and as in all other parts of France I have noticed that they are delighted by anyone's attempt to speak even a few words of the languaage. It's very important anywhere in France to begin any encounter with a French person with a bonjour or bonsoir, Madame/Monsieur, and always to say merci and au revoir. That said, out in the country I would certainly not EXPECT people to speak English. The provençal accent, by the way, takes some getting used to even if you are fluent, and in some places you may even hear (usually older) people speaking provençal, which is a distinct language. In sum, do your best to revive your French, but don't worry about you languge skills being much of a detriment to your trip.

Thanks for all your replies. This has been helpful.

To David's point: My wife and I agree that knowing as much of a language as possible is the goal. We've done this before in Italy and have had a better experience as a result.

In response to Chris: We're assuming that very little French will be spoken by merchants and residents in Provence, so we're going to refresh our French skills as much as we can.

To StCirq: I've read that politeness is a requirement in France...not a big deal since I do that in English (or Italian) as part of my behaviour now.

One thing I must note is that we've seen our share of "ugly Americans" who yell and demand English be spoken. Our goal is to fit into the culture/countryside as much as possible. It only makes the experience that much rewarding and fun!

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In response to Chris: We're assuming that very little French will be spoken by merchants and residents in Provence, so we're going to refresh our French skills as much as we can.

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I assume you mean very little English?

We found that when my French failed me (my husband's is nonexistent), we were able to get by just fine with pantomime and a good attitude.

I totally agree that a good atitude is very helpful. Also, as you stated---just be polite----and proper. We were in Provence 3 years ago. I knew enough french to get around and order food. I could read it better than i could speak. We ran into NO problems. Even had a few times where my husband and i would be speaking in english (of course) and someone would chime in and ask where we were from and then say the wanted to practice there english with us. It sounds like you will know more than i did----so you will be way ahead of us----so definatley not a problem.

Stephanie dogma to Rosco and Sedona

Yes, Chris, I meant "very little English"

This is what happens when I respond during meetings at work...

I'd rather be thinking about the trip to France than talking about high-tech!!!

Totally understandable! I've been there.

Have you told us about your trip? Where are you planning to go in Provence? Where are you going to stay? The only post I remember seeing was when you were asking about the Dordogne.

Paul: In case you don't know this phrase, you might want to memorize it: Excusez-moi de vous déranger (madame/monsieur), mais....

Essentially, it means, excuse me for bothering you, but...

and then fill in the blank (Can you tell me where the Post Office is? How much are you asking for this? Whatever).

It never fails to elicit a smile and usually the response "You're not bothering me at all. What can I do to help you?"

Chris, I haven't told you guys about the trip because we just started planning it! We usually travel in the Fall, so September 2003 is the target. We're also going to meet our friends John and Cindy in Provence for a week with them in a villa. (Thus, my questions about renting a property in France and on Dordogne)

We're talking to Doorways on 1/2/03 to set some dates and locations then we'll build the remainder of the vacation around the villa dates. My cousins in Gualdo Tadino (Perugia) expect that we'll visit them for a few days, of course.

If people find it interesting, I can contribute information on "how a software engineer plans a european vacation"

Thanks for the phrase, StCirq. I always remember the phrase "Avez-vous quelque chose pour moi?" (spelling might be a bit off) as the phrase that was drilled into our heads during French classes years ago. That, and "Ou est la toilette, s'il vous plait?

"Où sont les toilettes s'il vous plait?" - Don't ask me why, but it's plural in French.
I think "la toilette" is Québécois.
Enjoy your trip in Provence, lucky people!

www.verdetecnica.com

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If people find it interesting, I can contribute information on "how a software engineer plans a european vacation"

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I think that Pauline and Steve might find that interesting....... , being software geeks themselves.....

And Paul, your spelling was perfect! Looking forward to hearing more about your planning.

David, usually in NYC

The only place we encountered any language difficulties in Provence was, strangely enough, the tourist info office in Arles. There the employees either knew essentially no English or pretended not to understand us. Everywhere else we got by fine on old (very old!) high school French freshened up a bit by listening to tapes before the trip, or English or a great deal of pointing and smiling. We have some wonderful memories of our experiences communicating. One that comes to mind now is trying to buy film in the hyper-market, when bystanders began trying to translate for me, and everyone nearby got into the conversation. (But now I'm studying French for my return trip!)

I think there are many of us software/hardware geeks on this board! But I am interested in how people go about planning a trip. Steve and I are talking now about what to do this year. Our way of planning seems random...

When you get the time, start a new thread about Trip Planning and let us know how you go about it.

(As a computer geek, I like to do everything online. I do not even want to talk to anyone on the phone to make arrangements. Pathetic, isn't it?)

Pauline from Slow Travelers