This is an interesting blog post regarding prices found on the RENFE site if you search using the site in English versus searching in the Spanish version. In this scenario, the specials were only offered when searching in Spanish. I do not know if this is true for other countries rail sites. Another blogger found same results but found no price differents by language on the German or French train sites.
If you are booking train tickets and know a little bit of language of the country, it might be worthwhile checking in both languages.
This is IT technology gone mad (and complete laziness!)- the English version is the old version of the website and has not been updated - hence no offers or space for offers. My advice to anyone until this is corrected would be to use the English version to choose your train (make a note of everything) - then go to the Spanish version and go through the same steps (pretty easy even with little Spanish) as the hours/dates of the trains are the same and apparent in any language. Book it on the Spanish version of course!! They do seem to have sorted out the problems with foreign credit card payments (at least I have not had any clients complain of not being able to book tickets recently).
Will send off a complaint to Renfe tomorrow on behalf of all!!
To follow up:- Renfe have responded to my email, not really giving an explaination but saying that all prices now appear on both versions of the website!! They do point out that the promotional "web fares" and "Estrella fares" can disappear off the website when they are sold out - but that they will disappear off both language versions of the website.
I just did a test for an Ave train Malaga to Madrid on 25th June and another for Madrid to Barcelona on the 2nd July. All fares (promotional if available, and standard tarrifs)came up the same on both the English language version and on the Spanish version so it looks like they have moved very quickly.
I am of course in Spain and therefore have a Spanish IP address, and although this should not affect anything (although many airline companies do offer different fares according to your IP address and where you live) I would be interested if someone could try a couple of tests from outside of Spain.
Hopefully cheaper train travel for all in Spain if you book online and take advantage of the offers (if available)!
This is not directly relevant but roughly on target. When I was booking for my wife and a friend to go by train from Copenhagen to Gothenburg last year I found that a well-known supplier of tickets across Europe was unable to get tickets for anything like the price they were offered on Swedish Rail's own site. Since I know no Swedish beyond 'thank you' I found the trains that interested me and the fares in English - then had no trouble in finding them on the Swedish version - they were the same but I agree that it's always worth checking.
When I went to Spain in November we used the Renefe site from Italy and I booked all our tickets online getting all the discounts....the prices were the same in Spanish as they were in English...I waited the 62 days and got all the web discounts....
Posts: 736 | Location: USA | Registered: 08 June 2008
Further to Michael's post above where he appears to give RENFE a pat on the back --- please beware ! RENFE web site is a maze of mirrors. It just depends on what you are looking for - you need to be very diligent indeed. The standard enquiry in both the Spanish original version and the 'English' version will give different information about fares. The only way to obtain the 'web' fares is to navigate the Spanish version.
Posts: 12 | Location: Southern England | Registered: 17 October 2005
Definitely NOT a pat on the back for Renfe - the website is not user friendly and a myriad of confusing connections.
However, I have just sone a couple of tests again from here in Spain for Malaga/Madrid on the 22nd June and for Barcelona/Madrid on the 25th July - all fares (website offers or otherwise, if no offers are available) are appearing the same on both the English and the Spanish versions in either the "timetable/consulta de horarios" or when you actually enter into the process of "buying online/compra de billetes".
When you say "standard enquiry" in your post above - do you mean via the timetable/horarios or the actual buying process. Try as I can I cannot find any different prices on either language version at the moment. (I am still wondering if this has something to do with where one is based if they are appearing as different prices when using a UK based computer for example.
Americana in Parigi gave a thumbs up earlier - was that for the post Americana, or did it mean that you had tried a couple of tests from France and found the webfares to be the same on both language versions?
Hi Michael. Maybe I am just so annoyed with RENFE at the moment that I exaggerated my displeasure. But they do tend to change things without any notice. OK I just tried this: Booking a train from Seville to Madrid on the 12 July. First open this URL: http://www.renfe.es/horarios/english/index.html Enter Seville & Madrid and date. So up comes ONLY AVE trains - no alternatives like ALTARIA - and no web discounts advertised just the regular fares. AND what's more you don't have to take an AVE on this route because there's a nice ALTARIA train also ! The one I like to take ! So then I go to book 08.45 which says Tourist is €77.60 So now when I hit the BASKET up comes another screen https://w1.renfe.es/vol/ This screen shows nothing about Seville to Madrid. The first station listed is A Coruna. No matter let's start again. And now success - there is a discount for that particular train and I can book now at €46.50 in Turista Class on the Estrella Discount. And still no mention of any alternative trains ! Although on the Spanish page you can enter a screen that does show ALL trains on this route. http://www.renfe.es/horarios/index.html (notice that this page is for Espanol)
Now I happen to know that an ALTARIA train runs and leaves Seville at 09.25 and reaches Madrid at 12.41. Very comfortable train. OK it takes 3 hours 16 mins instead of AVE's 2 hours 30 mins. But it is comfortable and the timings are not that different. But where on any timetable is the ALTARIA ! It has disappeared completely. A Houdini Magic trick ? Is RENFE only pushing AVE fares?
Why does the famous German Railways Euro route planner show the ALTARIA and not RENFE ? What do the Germans know that the Spanish don't ?
I went back to the original blog and he has updated it several times with correspondence with Renfe. The author has explained how he has to navigate. I gave it a try and here are some comments.
1. Starting at main website http://www.renfe.es/, it is first a little difficult to find the English UI. No flags. The EU sign at the bottom and box labelled "Seleccione su idioma" is where you can select English.
2. This takes you to the English page for entering your trip. I selected Barcelona to Madrid on September 16. I will get the same screen as he sees that lists the trains, times, features and the standard prices for Internet versus Station. No hint that that there are any special pricing. Except at the bottom there is this note: Press the shopping trolley icon to consult availability of offers(Web, Estrella and Last Minute) on our ticket purchase page..
3. Pressing the trolly, this takes you this new page where you can reenter your trip information. At the bottom of the side bar is a place to select English or Spanish. I think it saves your language selection in a cookie because it remembered my language the second time in.
4. This time when you reenter your trip information, you do see the additional prices. I didn't continue on to see if I could purchase the ticket.
I think the key is to know to go to this this page to look for ticket prices first instead of going to the generic home page and selecting English. The page that comes off the home page by selecting English English Timetables and Prices is what is confusing. The good thing is when you do go to purchase on the English Timetables and Prices (I'm assuming the trolly is the purchase icon), you do have to get to the other screen which will show you more price options. It is just that if you don't go to the correct screen and choose English there - you won't know right off that there are discounts and you might miss them.
The author of the blog has updated and detailed the English confusion on the first link. Thanks for your help Michael.
Booking a train from Seville to Madrid on the 12 July. First open this URL: http://www.renfe.es/horarios/english/index.html Enter Seville & Madrid and date. So up comes ONLY AVE trains - no alternatives like ALTARIA - and no web discounts advertised just the regular fares. AND what's more you don't have to take an AVE on this route because there's a nice ALTARIA train also ! The one I like to take ! So then I go to book 08.45 which says Tourist is €77.60
Hi Nigel,
Well this is confusing - I have just tried exactly the same (Seville/Madrid 12th July) using the Spanish version of the same URL - the RENFE site here in Spain and have had exactly the same results - NO ALTARIA - and I cannot find it - I suspect it is on "Media distancia/avant" but sorry do not have time to try that this evening - promise I will do it tomorrow!
However - again - all prices are coming up the same as above - THE SHOPPING TROLLEY is definitely the key, whether you are in the timetable or trying to buy tickets - the best prices will come up once you hit that button (but let us see whether that will include altarias/media distancia and cercanias tomorrow!)I suspect this is due to supply and demand - certainly the slower trains are less popular from Malaga to Madrid now (which is a huge success)- even the airlines are slowly dropping the route as they cannot compete with the AVE time-wise, city centre to city centre. I suspect that the slower trains will disappear from the Malaga/ Madrid route over the next year.
The most inmportant thing is - all prices on the AVE, for instance, now seem to appear on both translations of the website which can only be a good thing for consumers.
To re-iterate - "NUL POINTS" to Renfe for such a confusing website (but I do give them 10 out of 10 for such a magical high speed and efficient train system as the AVE, which I use often and find to be fantastic, good value and more environmentally friendly than the airlines)
Lets hope it expands to cover all major cities in the near future - plans for doing this are in place.
As a British expatriate living in Spain for some 20 years now - the rail system in Spain generally runs on time (refunds available if they don´t!!), is fast and efficient, is good value for money, you get a reserved seat, and is very clean.
I know what you mean by British Rail, Michael. But as you have lived in Spain for 20 years let me give you an update on British rail. Firstly the old 'British Rail' - the Government Nationalised industry - was scrapped some years ago when the private companies were brought into running the networks. The track maintenance was held by another company which is now called Network rail. All this new privatised regime is supervised and regulated. If an operator is found to be useless at providing a service then the contract is terminated. So now there is much more reason for a rail company to improve. There are several companies now offering rail services in England including: Virgin Trains, Heathrow Express, and Chiltern railways. To name but 3! Today the rail carriages are good, clean and comfortable and if you want to check punctuality and all sorts of other things you just refer to http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ which is what a single government railway organisation like Renfe should try to study.
The passenger numbers in UK have been steadily rising over the past few years after a stagnant period under British Rail. So by all accounts the UK should no longer be thought of as having a 2nd class rail system.
Posts: 12 | Location: Southern England | Registered: 17 October 2005
I haven't a clue why the person trying to get info on July 12 is not finding web discounts on any of the sites or why they are not showing any other trains but AVE...but for the person who did for Sept 16 you can not get web discounts 62 days before you want to travel...I got them for every train I took when we were there in November. On Trip Advisor Madrid Forum there is a thread for booking on RENEFE by BennyMalaga which is a godsend to getting tickets if you want to look at that..
I also want to mention if you are 60 years or older you can apply for the RENEFE senior discount card which enable you to get certain trains on certain days with a substantial discount and you don't have to buy so far in advance for them....
Posts: 736 | Location: USA | Registered: 08 June 2008
Thanks for the clarification JilM. I was the one testing the prices out in September just as a test. I had a hunch I was outside of the allowable time period for discounts although I did see one discount. I'm glad to know what the time period is for discounts.
The key point that the blog made is there can be portals (pages) in the train sites for English speakers that don't show all the options. As several people have pointed out, many of the European train websites are difficult to navigate and the suggestion is to also try it in the language of the country.
If you do notice a difference, then it is good to really check the page in depth to see the correct navigation for English pages. Once I found this This page for purchasing tickets and changed my idiom to English all was fine. It was just the schedule page from the main home page that just listed standard prices.
Or better yet, find a guide for navigating the website on a travel forum as you mention.
You are welcome Marta...to be honest I used the TA website and Benny's instructions to buy all my tickets...did not know about the blog and I had no problems...my one disclaimer is at the time I used my Italian Credit Card...but now I understand they are taking American ones too...
Posts: 736 | Location: USA | Registered: 08 June 2008
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