I would like to know the frequency (or lack thereof) of the use of "ella" in place of "lei", e.g.:

"Lei e' andata(o) in ufficio" versus

"Ella e' andata(o) in ufficio"

In particular, in what circumstances might it be more acceptable to use "ella" in place of "lei"?

Soooooo
Ella is the official form of the pronoun that you should use as a subject in Italian for 3rd person feminine.
Nobody really uses it any longer and it's perfectly acceptable to always use lei instead (or just skip it most of the times as Italians would do).
Just a note about your examples: in Italian we also use "Lei" as the formal version of the 2nd person "tu". In your examples you seem to use "Lei" with this meaning.
Lei è andata/o in ufficio. (You (female or male) went to the office)
Lei è andata in ufficio. (she went to the office)
You can use Ella only when "lei" means "She"... so the example Ella è andata/o in ufficio is incorrect... only Ella è andata in ufficio is correct.
We usually write "lei" for "she" and " Lei" for the formal form of "tu"
I hope I didn't make it a mess for you!

Have you ever noticed how some journalists on RAI use "ella" in the feminine form when referring to a man (e.g. Bruno Vespa)?

e.g.: Ella e' andata in ufficio

In your opinion:

1) Can "ella" ever be used to refer to a man?

2) If so, should the masculine form be used, e.g. "Ella e' italiano"

I know that "ella" is used very rarely, but I'm really all tripped up on its use with reference to a man.

Ella/lei = thou/you. And I would not much pay atention to what Italian journalists talk like, most of them are quite ignorant (Gianni Minà, whom I otherwise admire, has a bad case of "congiuntivite": he would not be able to recognize a "congiuntivo" if it was holding a gun to his head), while others (like vespa( like to use desuete and literary forms in an attmept to impress their audience, who is mainly made of elderly ladies.

Alice: I repeat my question:

1) Does "ella" have both masculine and feminine usage?

2) If so, would it be correct to say (referring to a man and not a woman:

"Ella e' andato in ufficio"

and, for a woman: "Ella e' andata in ufficio"

Ella is feminine of Egli
Egli è andato in ufficio
Ella è andata a fare la spesa

Egli è andato a nuotare
Ella è andata a nuotare

On the other side, Ella (written with capital) was used also as the formal form of "tu" both for men and women, as in "Signore, Ella è tanto buona ch'io la guardo come potrebbe una figlia guardare suo padre" (SILVIO PELLICO) But nowadays you can only find it in books (old!)

quote:

On the other side, Ella (written with capital) was used also as the formal form of "tu" both for men and women, as in "Signore, Ella è tanto buona ch'io la guardo come potrebbe una figlia guardare suo padre" (SILVIO PELLICO) But nowadays you can only find it in books (old!)

Or by Bruno Vespa on Porta a Porta. He often uses "Ella" in place of "Lei", usually referring to a male guest. It always strikes me as awkward to use "Ella" for a man, yet with an adjective in the feminine form, as you quote above:

"Signore, Ella e' tanto buona".

Yet, if using "Lei" (in place of "Ella") in connection with a man, one would say:

"Signore, Lei e' tanto buono"

Have you ever noticed this nuance?

A little off-topic, but I had American friends who lived in Rome for a few years with their little daughter, who was named Ella. Sometimes Italians who didn't actually know the family (e.g., people in shops and restaurants) couldn't understand why my friends were using the formal/antiquated pronoun when speaking to or about her!

quote:

Italians who didn't actually know the family (e.g., people in shops and restaurants) couldn't understand why my friends were using the formal/antiquated pronoun when speaking to or about her!

GAC,
I think that I never noticed that Bruno Vespa uses "Ella" this way.... but I definitely belive you! I suppose that he can use it when talking to bishops, cardinals and the like that is, as far as I know, the only cases when people would use it.

Giulia:

In re-reading your postings:

"Ella is feminine of Egli
Egli è andato in ufficio
Ella è andata a fare la spesa

Egli è andato a nuotare
Ella è andata a nuotare"

It now dawns on me that I confused matters unnecessarily by not making clearer that my inquiry concerned the use of "Ella" (with a capital "e") as a substitute for "Lei" (and not the "ella" and "egli" with a small "e").

Concerning the use of "Ella" by Bruno Vespa, you state:

"I think that I never noticed that Bruno Vespa uses "Ella" this way.... but I definitely belive you! I suppose that he can use it when talking to bishops, cardinals and the like that is, as far as I know, the only cases when people would use it."

In actuality, I have noticed that Vespa uses "Ella" even when addressing ordinary distinguished guests, and not even bishops and cardinals. This consistently strikes me as very odd, as the use of "Ella" seems so excessively old-fashioned. Nevertheless, I find its usage quaint (perhaps as the use of "sire" to address a monarch)!!!

I don't recall hearing any Italian politicians using "Ella" in place of "Lei". Am I correct? Is this usage of the word limited to cultivated and well-read journalists?

quote:

I don't recall hearing any Italian politicians using "Ella" in place of "Lei". Am I correct? Is this usage of the word limited to cultivated and well-read journalists?

The usage of the word must be limited to Bruno Vespa alone... Seriously... looking for clues about your question on the internet I found some documents where Ella is used for official speaches talking to the Presidente della Repubblica and other important politicians and also a letter by Emma Bonino to, guess who, Bruno Vespa (!) where she used Ella to refer to him...

I was beyond surprised to find this subject come up here, because I haven't run into it since I left University in 1974! My courses there were aimed at reading classical literature and it is in old books that I do run into it now and am glad I know how Italian was once spoken. And always was written.
I don't mind one bit when someone like Vespa uses language conventions of yesteryear, because although we may not speak as someone would have in 1927, the understanding of it won't be lost as long as there's someone fluent in formal Italian. Could I do it too? Nope.
Some of my treasures are books printed before or during the Twenties, and although it takes a bit of adjustment to begin them, it's nice to be able to. Perhaps I am one of the old ladies to whom Vespa speaks? In English as well, I assure you.

GAC
Since reading your post I have watched carefully some of the Porta A Porta programmes which are presented by Bruno Vespa, and I only heard him use tu and Lei to his guests depending on their relationship. Can you indicate a particular programme and date of transmission that I can listen to in which he uses Ella instead of Lei?
Thanks

Vasco:

I too have noted that Vespa has not recently addressed certain guests with "Ella".

I'm trying to monitor his programs and will report back if and when I hear him use "Ella" again (specifying the transmission date and other particulars).

I believe I have heard BV using Ella in a sort of too-overly-cerimonious-but sarcastic way.

Alice, the fact that you don't watch it doesn't mean that the only elderly ladies watch it.

Again, Ella is an eccessive form of respect due-but even if you don't use it is acceptable- to the highest ranks of the state or church.

Or Ella is a almost not animore used form of pronoun.

Lei is great in both cases.