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Slow Traveler
Posted
Parlre = to speak
Parlo = I speak

or

Vedere = to see
vedo = I see
vede = he sees

A tiny bit confusing to someone who does not know the language but not big deal.


Now it starts to get confusing:

avere = to have

but

Ho = I have
Ha = He has

sapere = to Know
So = I have
Sa = He has

I see some pattern here but is there a rule for the usage? If I See is Vedo, why is I Know not Sapo?

Now to get really confusing:


Vado = I go
Va = He goes

Like in "Vado mangiare".

Is there a "to" form of the verb "go"? Andere = to go, is this the same go? If so that is REALLY confusing.

I sure hope I get the hang of this. Smile Though I guess it is no more confusing then English with our "I will read" and "I have read", fly, flew, flown etc.

[changed title from "contractions" to conjugations]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Colleen,
 
Posts: 575 | Location: Pittsburgh, PA U.S.A. | Registered: 16 December 2005Edit or Delete MessageReport This Post

Slow Traveler
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Hi Spinnaker!
you really answered your own question with your last sentence! It's exactly the same: irregular verbs!
The "normal" way is Parl-are, parl-o, ved-ere, ved-o, etc. etc. The first bit stays as it is and you change the second bit depending on the tense etc.
Then you have irregular verbs, I wrote a book about irregular verbs for spanish speaking learners so I should know how to explain that, but I think that the only real answer is: just learn them! It will be easier once you hear and speak a lot of Italian, they will get "authomatic"... even if I know that it seems impossible right now!
Yes to go=andare , andare is a most irregular verb and it can be really confusing! But that's what Italian is like... Wink Grin
The biggest problem is that very common verbs like Andare, Sapere, Essere, Avere etc. are irregular! Consider that the explanation comes from the history of each verb so it's not really an explanation, but it's more likely to be something like "as in Latin it was.... now in Italian we say..."
Please post any further doubt you may have and I will try and be as clear as I can
 
Posts: 1906 | Location: Urbino, Le Marche, Italy | Registered: 09 October 2005Edit or Delete MessageReport This Post

Slow Traveler
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Thanks. Irregular verbs. Don't you just love them. So there are no rules. Smile Kind of like English.

Studying Italian has given me an interest in understanding components of English.

For example, one of the most interesting verbs in English, in my opinion, is read. It is an irregular verb in that it is pronounced differently in the present tense than it is the past tense. And it is spelled the same. I have been trying to figure out if there are any other verbs with these same attributes. There are other words like dove (the verb) and dove (the noun, bird). Homographs are words that are spelled the same but have different meanings. I just wonder if there is a name for a word that is spelled the same, has different meaning and is pronounced differently.
 
Posts: 575 | Location: Pittsburgh, PA U.S.A. | Registered: 16 December 2005Edit or Delete MessageReport This Post

Slow Traveler
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quote:
Studying Italian has given me an interest in understanding components of English.

I know exactly what you mean. My english classes all thru junior high were part of the experimental curriculum that decided it was better to learn by rote (just look at the right way and memorize it) rather that actually learning sentence and grammatical structure. I guess the powers that were finally realized we needed more but by the time high school rolled around we found the world of "electives" and english classes could be folklore or typesetting, etc .....so who needed to know participles, indefinite articles and gerunds?

One of the first things I did when I started trying to learn Italian was to by an English Grammar book and work with that at the same time.

Those wonderful new ideas the board of education didn't pan out on the MEAP's I guess. I recently heard about their NEW and improved math. Has anyone tried the LATTICE ADDITION? 2 + 2 still equals 4, except there are about 5 steps to complete to get to 4. Confused
 
Posts: 690 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 14 January 2005Edit or Delete MessageReport This Post

Slow Traveler
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I remeber when first learning English that all the support for the irregular verbs I needed was in a couple of pages at the end of my book. Italian, as well as French, Spanish or any other lating language require something more of you. When learning French and Spanish I really found it useful to have a "verb conjugation guide" that helped me navigate through them. And sometimes it stillr equired me to just emorize the right forms Frown You can get similar guies for Italian too (1, 2, 3, and also from Amazon).


Alice Twain
--
A Typesetter's day 3.0: Blog.
 
Posts: 10684 | Location: Milano, Italy | Registered: 06 December 2002Edit or Delete MessageReport This Post

Slow Traveler
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Thank you very much for the tips!
 
Posts: 575 | Location: Pittsburgh, PA U.S.A. | Registered: 16 December 2005Edit or Delete MessageReport This Post

Slow Traveler
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Spinnaker I thought you would feel less intimidated by Italian if you saw this or at least it's good example of how confusing English can be. I strggle with learning Italian daily.
Subject: Speaking English


Reasons why the English language is so hard
to learn:

1) The bandage was wound around the wound.

2) The farm was used to produce produce.

3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.

4) We must polish the Polish furniture.

5) He could lead if he would get the lead out.

6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.

7) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present.

8) A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.

9) I shot at the dove as it dove into the bushes.

10) I did not object to the object.

11) The insurance was invalid for the invalid.

12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.

13) They were too close to the door to close it.

14) The buck does funny things when the does are present.

15) A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.

16) To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.

17) The wind was too strong to wind the sail.

18) After a number of injections my jaw got number.

19) Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.

20) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.

21) How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?

Let's face it - English is a crazy language. There is no egg in eggplant nor ham in hamburger; neither apple nor pine in pineapple. English muffins weren't
invented in England nor French fries in France.

Sweetmeats are candies while sweetbreads, which aren't sweet, are meat. We take English for granted. But if we explore its paradoxes, we find that quicksand can work slowly, boxing rings are square and a guinea pig is neither from Guinea nor is it a pig.

And why is it that writers write but fingers don'tfing, grocers don't groce and hammers don't ham? If the plural of tooth is teeth, why isn't the plural of
booth beeth? One goose, 2 geese. So one moose,2 meese? One index, 2 indices?

Doesn't it seem crazy that you can make amends but not one amend. If you have a bunch of odds and ends and get rid of all but one of them, what do you call it?

If teachers taught, why didn't preachers praught? If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?

Sometimes I think all the English speakers should be committed to an asylum for the verbally insane.

In what language do people:
Recite at a play and play at a recital?
Ship by truck and send cargo by ship?
Have noses that run and feet that smell?

How can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same, while a wise man and a wise guy are opposites?

You have to marvel at the unique lunacy of a language in which your house can burn up as it burns down, in which you fill in a form by filling it out and in which, an alarm goes off by going on.

English was invented by people, not computers, and it reflects the creativity of the human race, which, of course, is not a race at all. That is why, when the stars are out, they are visible, but when the lights are out, they are invisible.

PS: Why doesn't "buick" rhyme with "quick"?
 
Posts: 4810 | Location: Umbria | Registered: 29 June 2001Edit or Delete MessageReport This Post

Slow Traveler
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Oh, Barb, that post was wonderfully encouraging.

We don't even realize how much we have learned. If we can grasp these English rules then Italian will certainly come to us if we just hang in there.

I for one feel renewed and energized and ready to tackly my Italian grammar book once again.

Thanks!!!
 
Posts: 690 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 14 January 2005Edit or Delete MessageReport This Post

Slow Traveler
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Yes English can be very confusing also.

Yes there are no babies in baby oil. Or is there..... Smile


Park on a driveway and drive on a parkway.

And thank you I was trying to think of another verb that is spelled the same but pronouced differently for tense read is one of them and lead is another.

And there is:

I will lead the lead line down to the bottom.

(A lead line is a string with a lead weight used to determine the depth of water).
 
Posts: 575 | Location: Pittsburgh, PA U.S.A. | Registered: 16 December 2005Edit or Delete MessageReport This Post
New Member
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Hi Spinnaker, Not to nitpick, but the subject your talking about is conjugations, not contractions. I only point this out because contractions are an important subject in Italian, and I didn't want you to confuse the two. A conjugation is the forming of a verb in a particular tense, and mood, such as the future, parlero', I shall speak. A contraction is the elision of two words to form one. L'uomo is Lo uomo, but no one says Lo uomo.
hth, tom
 
Posts: 4 | Registered: 20 January 2006Edit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Favorite Lexicographer
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Barb (or Art) -- your contribution is priceless! I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to use some of the sentences for dictation for my advanced Japanese students. I had constructed several pages of them, but copying is always so much easier! Happy

And dumbmick put the finger on the difference between "contractions" and "conjugations". I saw the topic and immediately thought WOW! I need help with those. The verb thing is easier to comprehend because there are charts and books (e.g. "501 Italian Verbs" from Barron's Educational Series, Inc.)

Earline
Cat2 Kitty

(Here's another one -- If horrific means to make horrible, does terrific mean to make terrible?)
 
Posts: 2173 | Location: Murfreesboro TN | Registered: 16 July 2004Edit or Delete MessageReport This Post

Slow Traveler
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Happy
I'm still trying to understand a couple of them Confused but what I got is quite enough for a loooong laugh!!!
 
Posts: 1906 | Location: Urbino, Le Marche, Italy | Registered: 09 October 2005Edit or Delete MessageReport This Post

Slow Traveler
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quote:
Originally posted by Giulia da Urbino:
Happy
I'm still trying to understand a couple of them Confused but what I got is quite enough for a loooong laugh!!!


Which ones don't you understand? I can try to explain.

I couldn't help but thinking how certain English words can be a compliment or use in a derogatory manner. Just a couple of examples that come to mind are chief and friend. Depending on how they are being said by the speaker they can have a totally different meaning.
 
Posts: 575 | Location: Pittsburgh, PA U.S.A. | Registered: 16 December 2005Edit or Delete MessageReport This Post

Slow Traveler
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Ora per qualcosa completamente diversa...

C'è qualcuno che sa come tradurre o cashier's check o certified check in Italiano? Sarebbe un strumento bancario per i fondi monetari garantiti, oppure che potrebbe garantire i fondi monetari?

I just went right off the deep end, didn't I? I do much better saying how good dinner was.

Otherwise, yes, in Italiano, it's all about the verbs, and I'm convinced they created the irregular ones just to see just who among us was REALLY SERIOUS about learning this language, and to somehow punish us in the process.

(Barb and/or Art, you have just provided a great TEFL exercise!)
 
Posts: 2411 | Location: Venezia, Italia | Registered: 14 January 2005Edit or Delete MessageReport This Post

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Maria I. had the translation: assegno circolare.

Torniamo ai verbi...
 
Posts: 2411 | Location: Venezia, Italia | Registered: 14 January 2005Edit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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