Originally posted by Saint_Bambi: but who knows what might be said about me in return? I wouldn't expose myself to that, and I would be embarrassed to read such an exchange between two other parties.
Ahhh, but a business is held to a MUCH higher standard by the public, and I believe THAT is why it is important for businesses to have the ability to respond. The customer will always have more credibility in the eye of the reader, as they have nothign to gain. So if the business bashes the customer in any way whatsoever, it would automatically bolster the customer's position, and would be tantamount to e.suicide for the business in question.
That said, the business MUST tread very lightly in order to protect their reputation, and is almost forced to take responsibility even when not at fault. In the end, that satisfies the customer, shows the readers that the business is responsive (albeit somewhat forced), and gives the business the opportunity to salvage its reputation.
I wasn't going to bring this up, but where is the line drawn anyway? Have a look at this thread.
Someone was getting frustrated trying to communicate with this B&B. I understand it isn't a 'review', but it was more or less a complaint. The B&B came on the board (Only 15 posts, so not active), and took control of the situation. When I saw that, I was really impressed that they did so. It showed that they cared.
I underdtand that the scenario was quite different, so please don't point that out... the business in question didn't have to post on the board, but it could have looked bad to a reader, and their post showed them to be responsive and accomodating.
I would have been shocked if that post had been pulled, but it does skate the same line, no?
My head is spinning, I see both sides of the matter.
I do not think that people like me or Diana, or Letizia etc should be cut some slack just because we contribute regularly. I do it because I love the community, because it is not so much the forum that helps, but the reviews if anything. The forum is like a place where I meet friends at this point in my life: I am addicted!
(By the way Bill, I should thank you for letting me know La Costa. Amazing place. Too bad it's abit too far from home or I would have chosen it in a heartbeat for our wedding reception!)
I also think that people who post a negative review should not feel intimidated by responses.
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It would certainly stop me from posting a negative review knowing that a business could respond in public. I know that I wouldn't give a negative review without agonising over it, and making sure that it was as measured as possible - but who knows what might be said about me in return?
have you ever thought that you would be in the exact same position? Don't you think we are scared of fake or partial reviews?
Please allow me to say something which is very politically incorrect (I am Italian, that's what we do!!! ) - and I stress this, not related to the present case.
Although I tend to think the best of people, aulthough I have mostly had fabulous experiences with our guests (REALLY, some are friends to us), although I would probably never allow a situation to slip out of hand like this and even then I would probably never say anything bad about my guests in public:
not all people are nice people. In fact some people are impossible people.
And no matter what you do, they will not be happy. And they will "badmouth" you with no reason to do that.
And hey, I am Italian, and you are right, for us the client is not always right. He is right if he is right.
I would like (if any of these not nice people ever writes something bad about me) to have a chance to reply and give my side of the story.
maybe all the people that write their story are as nice and honest as Dorit. But maybe they are not. We are talking about possibilities here, not what has happened up to now.
This said, I appreciate the work that the moderators do, I appreciate that people are allowed to say what they think on stuff, I appreciate it enormously believe me. And what I appreciate even more is the kind, respectful tone of a discussion like this, which is possible in very few places. This is a thing we should all be thankful for.
As a business owner as wel as a tourist myself (although less often than I would like) I have to say that these things can happen. I have always heard great things about Bea and I am sure this was just an ugly accident that he would love to take back if he could. Things happen. It is not possible to be perfect 100% of the times, and often it's when you most want it that something goes wrong. How perfect we are also depends on the eyes that look at us. Please, let's not forget that this is a personal opinion and experience. We only have one side of the story.
Pauline, allow me to disagree with the fact that you did not give Bea the possibility to respond to this thread. In the end he was not promoting his business, I imagine, but giving his side of the story. I respect your choice of course, but I do not agree at all. A person should be allowed to explain in his terms. I understand that one cannot respond to reviews directly, at least in the forum though, it should be allowed. I think about how I would feel, and the other inn-keepers probably feel the same, if after all the work we do, some unhappy guest, because of a misunderstanding, was to start a thread like this. I would be very upset if I could not give my side of the story, especially if I thought that it was really an unfortunate accident.
Now, Dorit, I appreciate your thoughtfulness in reporting this bad experience to other travellers and I am not criticing you, please do not misinterpret my words. Mine is a general thought. The other thing is try to see the human behind the business, and let him make up for it if he is willing to do it. I am sorry you had a bad day there, but it seems that the rest of the holiday was a success so, that's good!
Yes, I also agree that the response from the winery should have been allowed...and should be allowed in other similiar situations....BUT....at this point, even tho the winery saw (and responded to) this thread, knew of Dorit's disappointment...they still have not responed directly to Dorit, even if just to ay they were sorry! I find that a little disturbing, and maybe more telling than the intial problems Dorit experienced.
Originally posted by Barb (and Art): Yes, I also agree that the response from the winery should have been allowed...and should be allowed in other similiar situations....BUT....at this point, even tho the winery saw (and responded to) this thread, knew of Dorit's disappointment...they still have not responed directly to Dorit, even if just to ay they were sorry! I find that a little disturbing, and maybe more telling than the intial problems Dorit experienced.
Barb, I actually think that IF it was a misunderstanding and I thought to have been treated unfairly - not letting me give MY side of the story- I wouldn't have written to anybody directly. Is like being judged and executed without any right of reply. I do not think it is fair, even if I can understand -but not agree to them- some of the reasons that leadt to this kind of decision.
I believe that IF the answers are correct and not inflammatory they should be allowed.
I totally disagree to this use of internet
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However, if you get onto a search engine such as yahoo or google now, one of the first hits is my message here. This means that OTHER people who may be interested in visiting this winery will get the whole picture. And this is part of what my intentions were.
Bash or destroy a good and reliable -for most - business basing it on ONE personal experience is unfair.
Example: It happened to me.
We sell silver copies of etruscan jeweley electroplated with gold. We make the same jewellery ON CUSTOM ORDER in 18K solid gold.
We explain this, all the time, we have it written in the shop all over.
This lady bought 2 pair of earrings for 30€ (!!!)n each.
She goes, two months after I receive a letter from the tour company saying that I had told the lady that my jewellery was in 18K gold! Among the other things she was complaining about my poor english n(!). And they were telling me that they will warn their customers against my shop!
I wrote them back, and my answer -I admit -was a bit inflammatory, BUT it sorted its effect. I received another letter from the company with their apologies. It wasn't a short battle, but it worked.
I do not say that people shouldn't write about their bad experience, AT ALL, I say that people should defent themselves in an civilized manner, so to make people understand that sometimes -for how unfortunate it is- things happens.
Also, it might be it or not. I had tons of problems with e-mail and spam filters. I had people faxing me things because they couldn't reach me by e-mail. Could this be part of the problem?
Dorit, I am not diminishing your disappointment, at all. I am just saying that there could be other reasons. And sometimes internet doesn't help at all.
Barb, the only wine tasting I din't pay for were the free ones at the shops, or my neighbours that wanted me to taste their new wine. Professional wineries, expecially if the tasting is accompanied by food, do, and if the tour did go well nobody would have been talking about the price.
Pauline and the mods moved the discussion of the ST rule not allowing businesses to respond over to the Miscellaneous category under "How To". There you will find alot of responses from the ST family of service providers referencing how we all feel about this rule.
The moderators have reviewed the Bea Winery thread and our policy and decided to make a change.
I posted the reply from Mr. Bea on the original thread - HERE.
We will allow businesses to respond to threads with negative or positive reviews about them, but the posts will be moderated as all posts are. If we feel like the business is unfairly attacking the original poster, we will delete the post. If we feel like this new policy is not working, we will change our policy again.
This message board is for travelers - for consumers.
- We do not want to be a message board dominated by travel business owners.
- We do not want this to be a message board where someone is afraid to post anything negative about Italy in general or any specific travel business for fear of criticism by other travelers or business owners.
I know from personal experience that it can be daunting to post an opinion that differs from what the majority think. If you say an area in Italy, in your opinion, should be skipped, the people who love that area and the business owners who serve that area make you feel as if you just don't "get it" or you are unfairly criticizing them.
Please, let us all feel as if we can tell it like it is from our own point of view. Everyone experiences things differently. If 100 people had great experiences at a winery, but 1 person did not - I still want to hear from the 1 person with the bad experience, so I can be prepared in case the same thing happens to me. If you disagree with someone's opinion, state your own, but please respect the opinion of the original poster.
If we do not share negative experiences we all suffer. The person who goes to a vacation rental that has received glowing reviews and finds it is no longer up to par may not want to submit a negative review, but then all of us who go there suffer. If a negative review had been submitted, maybe we would not have booked the rental. Maybe the owner would have made some changes.
It is much easier to submit a positive review. I have a negative review to submit for a hotel in Switzerland (Gstaad) and keep putting it off, convincing myself that no one on this board would book it anyway, but the truth is that I feel bad saying something negative about the hotel.
I give my deep thanks to all of you who take the time to submit or post reviews, both positive and negative (and neutral!).
Pauline - I understand your and the other mods decision to post Mr. Bea's reply. It is policy that you determine and we don't have say in it. Personally, I am not pleased with your decision, after all this time, to post Mr. Bea's reply. Why? Well because there are discrepancies in it which I can show to be untrue with saved e-mails that I have.
But, I am not going to go through another "he-said, she-said" banter because I am not willing to be the target of people's anger, disagreements and downright bashing.
I wish that I had known, as a relatively new-ish member (one year), what the reactions here of people may be when posting a negative review. I was under the naive false assumption that people here would be more gracious and appreciative of the fact that someone has written something that they might think of taking into consideration if and when they plan on visiting said establishment. I was wrong.
Since my negative review, others, including you, have written, or alluded to, that they too have negative reviews but are wary to post them. Well, I can now certainly understand that.
I would like to state again that I definitely understand and appreciate other people's "take" on their positive review of this place. I am not arguing their experience. I am happy that they DID have a good experience. I was only unnerved when people argued my right to post a negative review. Don't worry gang. It won't happen again. You have managed to deter this poster from doing that again.
By the way Bill, I should thank you for letting me know La Costa. Amazing place. Too bad it's abit too far from home or I would have chosen it in a heartbeat for our wedding reception!)
Gloria - I am sorry I did not email you earlier about your visit to La Costa. We just concluded our last class of the season yesterday, and hopefully will now have more time. Paolo told me you were there – he does a fabulous job for receptions, etc. It is not possible to describe in words the view from the terrace – even photos do not capture the beauty. I wished I had known you were there, as I would have come by to see you. You passed right by our home on the drive up to Montefollonico.
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not all people are nice people. In fact some people are impossible people...And no matter what you do, they will not be happy. And they will "badmouth" you with no reason to do that.
I am totally in agreement with you on this. I know I will get bashed for this, but it has always been my opinion that one can not give good customer service to bad customers – and there are quite a few bad customers out there. From time to time, we do decline to allow this sort of customer to attend our program. We simply tell them that we do not feel we can meet their needs. One bad apple can ruin the entire week for everyone. We work extremely hard to try to fulfill and even exceed the expectations of our guests – as do nearly all the businesses on this board. BUT, there are times – as many of the board’s innkeepers have pointed out – that some customers can not be made happy. You are so correct that these seem to be the customers who take great delight in “badmouthing” others.
Pauline – thank you very much for your open mind and allowing businesses to make replies. I honestly feel this is in the best interest of everyone and the integrity of the board. I just read the letter that Mr. Bea posted and I found it extremely nice in every way. Negative reviews are essential in maintaining a realistic view of things, but many times there is truly another side of the story.
Thank you Pauline for the reversal of the rule. The forum will be a better place for this change.
To Dorit and all the others who have posted or want to post a negative review - absolutely correct and YOU MUST continue to do so. There are some very sensitive people out there at the moment, but you should not feel so sensitive.
Having now re-read all the posts, I do not feel anyone has been "bashed"!
As this all started with a thread on a winery it seems very appropriate to ask you all to raise a glass to "free, open and constructive dialogue"!!
Thank you Pauline and the mods for this decision. It is very much appreciated.
Dorit, I am sorry you feel the way you do. I wish I could convince you that you did the right thing, because you did.
And because you went ahead and did it, you started a discussion which was ripe to take place here. And regardless of which side of the decision you come down on, it was because you had the chutzpa to write what you wrote that lots of emotion and energy were poured into the response!! I would say you should be very proud of that. It also means people were listening to you and that you are an effective writer!!
I would only ask you to reconsider your decision and remember that alot of us really value constructive critique in order to make our businesses better.
I wish you peace, and very nice warm moments enjoying the wine!
Originally posted by Bill & Patty Sutherland: I just read the letter that Mr. Bea posted and I found it extremely nice in every way.
Perhaps, but he did not contact Dorit to discuss this review with her, even after she contacted him, and his facts contradict Dorit's. Let's keep that in mind.
Slow Travel Talk 
) - and I stress this, not related to the present case. 
