Most of us who fly know things are pretty bad, but this NYT article describes just how bad it is.
quote:
The state of air travel in the United States has perhaps never been worse. ... While there’s no question that these are tough times for the airline industry, it is the paying passengers who are feeling the effects. Indeed, the recent spate of flight cancellations and a series of low-cost airline shutdowns have caused many travelers to face a frustrating reality: airline passengers have virtually no rights.
“In the airline industry, the passenger is left holding the bag,” said Dean Headley, an associate professor of marketing at Wichita State University and co-author of a recent report critical of the airlines.
What isn't clear to me from that story, which refers only to the seats in the front of the plane, is whether you can reserve other window and aisle seats ahead of time for no fee. And are the seats in the front of the plane actually better?
Jet Blue is now charging extra for the seats in the first few rows of their planes, but those seats do have a couple of extra inches of leg room.
The story does report one bit of good news for passengers: the airlines will now have to pay us higher bumping compensation.
This blog links to a pretty funny video about the trend to "a la carte" airline pricing.
The harsh reality is airline travel is way too cheap. Airfares have not even come close to keeping up with inflation over the last 30 years. If they had it would be 1000 dollars for a economy ticket LA to NYC. RR
[/QUOTE]I have paid double this for that flight. There are many codes for airline travel and only so many seats for cheap.[/QUOTE]
You have? I've never heard of advance purchase economy fares even close to that, maybe business class full fare or first class, maybe if you go to the airport the day of the flight economy its 2000. Most coast to coast flights are under 500 dollars that's too cheap. LA to Europe should be $1500 Minimum, not 700 as it is now.
Fares are perhaps 50-75% higher than 30 years ago. They should be at least double or 150%. 30 years ago coast to coast economy 250 +/- now 350 at the lowest end of fares. RR
I never said it was advance. My point was that these "low-priced" fares across the country for $300 are only available to a limited number of passengers. So, let's say an airline reserves 15 tickets for that price. If you are passenger 16, you might pay $50 more an so on. In essence, not all tickets are cheap. If the flight is a popular time, there may be no deep discounts. That is all I was saying.
My point is that in general people expect airfares to stay the same in price, meanwhile the cost of everything has doubled then doubled again.
For example the cost of a movie in my 30 year time frame has gone from 4 dollars to 12 dollars- trippled. In '73 my dad bought a brand new Volkswagon for 3000 now it 8 times as much.
If you know of any 0 miles VW squarebacks from 73 I'll give you 10,000. RR
And here's another sad statistic: Because of air and ground congestion, almost every trip by air is significantly slower now than it was 20 years ago. According to this story in USA Today, flying from San Jose to JFK, for example, typically took almost 3 hours longer in 2007 than in 1998.
Originally posted by Roz: And here's another sad statistic: Because of air and ground congestion, almost every trip by air is significantly slower now than it was 20 years ago. According to this story in USA Today, flying from San Jose to JFK, for example, typically took almost 3 hours longer in 2007 than in 1998.
- Roz
Roz....your killing me here....
Posts: 1221 | Location: Seattle - soon to be England!!!! | Registered: 02 May 2005
150 years ago it took 3 MONTHS to get from "the western edge of civilization" less say St.Louis to California. I always think to myself when traveling by plane thank you I'm not taking a covered wagon! RR
The state of air travel in the United States has perhaps never been worse
This is nonsense. Flying has never been safer, we have very cheap fares when adjusted for inflation, there are many routes and many destinations. I think we are very lucky - when high oil prices really hit the airline industry, things will have to change.
The state of air travel in the United States has perhaps never been worse
This is nonsense. Flying has never been safer, we have very cheap fares when adjusted for inflation, there are many routes and many destinations. I think we are very lucky - when high oil prices really hit the airline industry, things will have to change.
It's the only industry that is excected to keep fares the same, provide excellent service and do it with a smile.
It's a choice double fares or keep it this way or worse. RR
In 1978 Airlines were guaranteed various routes/concessions. This in effect gave them a guaranteed profit. Along with the good came the bad. If you had a great route from Dallas to NYC then you were also responsible for the cruddy route from Dallas to Albuquerque. It is only with deregulation that we saw the arrival of cheap airfare.
I took an airplane from MSP to Dallas in 1972. The cost was $250 (approx). That was when I was thrilled to be making $5.00 an hour. If I shop long and hard I can get close to that fare today. But the price we pay also includes lousy service, poor maintenance and passenger room equal to the space on the slave ships from Africa.
What is needed isn't more regulation, what is needed is more transparency in airfares.
If airlines had something resembling a rational and transparent pricing structure then there would not be this great hunt for the best fare.
Recently a TV news program asked 158 passengers what they paid on a flight from Phx to Detroit. They got over 125 different answers. Where is the rationality in that?
The Nobel Prize for economics was recently awarded for the idea of "knowledge value." That when 2 people come to a transaction the one with the most knowledge will be the more successful in the transaction. If I know the used car I am selling was in a flood and the buyer doesn't I can charge more. If the buyer knows it was in a flood then they can negotiate a lower price.
Right now the "knowledge value" is disproportionately on the airlines side. I have no idea what it costs to fly me from Phoenix to Minneapolis. I couldn't even begin to guess. I also have no idea if I wait will the cost go up or down. If I call one representative and get a quote of $400 I can call back in 15 minutes and get an entirely different price.
If the cost of providing the service was reflected truly in the cost of a ticket then there would be less discrepancy in the "knowledge value".
As mentioned someone suggested we should look at alternative methods of travel. But what is an alternative to international air travel? The QE2 or Queen Mary at thousands of dollars one way? Maybe somebody could start a dirigible company?
The only purchase I can equate to buying a plane ticket these days is buying a car. For exactly the same reasons. Disparate pricing, disparate knowledge and a pricing structure shrouded in secrecy.
Originally posted by Rome Addict: I took an airplane from MSP to Dallas in 1972. The cost was $250 (approx). That was when I was thrilled to be making $5.00 an hour. If I shop long and hard I can get close to that fare today.
Exactly. Gas was what? 35 cents a gallon in 72. Now it's 10 times that, as one of the biggest costs of an airline can you see why this fare could easily be $2500 now? How could they possibly make profits when costs soar and prices remain the same?
As one of those radical environtalists I would love gas to be 6 dollars, or higher whatever it took to reduce demand. RR
Exactly. Gas was what? 35 cents a gallon in 72. Now it's 10 times that, as one of the biggest costs of an airline can you see why this fare could easily be $2500 now?
In 1972 there were a lot fewer people flying to Europe. If the price of an airline ticket to Europe rose to $2500 each, going to europe would become once again a once in the lifetime experience for most people. All those airplanes burning jet fuel may not be good for the environment, but that it is funny way to feel about airfares at a site dedicated to enjoying travel.
Posts: 3561 | Location: St Paul, MN | Registered: 10 February 2006
What is needed isn't more regulation, what is needed is more transparency in airfares.
This is something I NEVER get. I absolutely agree with the second part of this sentence--but how are you going to get more transparency if government(s) don't lay down some regulations on, for example, truth in advertising that some giant airlines want to abuse? (Price quoted is for one way tickets that you can't buy and include arbitrary charges that will be added when you agree to buy so that price comparison engines will be broken...) Wall street is highly regulated in that way. Why not airlines? Why can't prices and transactions be as transparent as they are in the (tightly regulated) stock market?
I not that I would love fares to come up its just realistic. Airlines are not public services but are businesses. I doubt they could raise them the amount of inflation over the years but I would be shocked if we don't get a 20% bump soon. RR
Robert, I have a theory on what you say: Why didn't tickets follow the inflation? It is simple: in 60ies airplane travel was for rich people and they had nice seats and served caviar and champagne, gastronomic meals in nice plates.
Today it doesn't cost cheaper, they just pack 2 times more people in the same space, serve you a bag of peanuts per person, half a meal in some luxurious airlines, so it comes to same and probably more expensive as it should be per square meter. And unfortunately everything goes up but our salaries don't increase so fast. I wish I had a 20% bump in salary, so I could still pay those tickets.
