Last spring in the Dordogne region in France, we had a minor accident where a stone wall leaped out into the road and sideswiped our car (or something like that). The rental was paid for with our American Express card.
It was unfortunate, but we called American Express right away, and they said it would be no problem, we were covered, and told us exactly what to do.
We followed their instructions and gave the American Express insurance information to Europcar. We had rented the car through AutoEurope, which acts as a broker, but the actual rental was with Europcar.
Everything seemed to be going fine until recently, when we found out that Europcar had not responded to American Express's requests for the information they say they need to process the claim. American Express has now made their investigation "inactive" and will not do more, or pay the claim, until they get the information they want.
We then received a demand for payment from Europcar because American Express had not paid their charges.
This happened to us once before, with a very small claim, but we were never required to pay. This time it looks like we will be forced to pay the entire amount.
This is the catch. Your credit card insurance only works if the car rental firm cooperates and provides the information required by the credit card company to pay a claim. The car rental companies want that insurance revenue themselves, so don't want to cooperate with your credit card company. Apparently there is no legal requirement for them to cooperate so you are stuck in the middle with the bill.
Has anyone else had a problem with this? We've always counted on American Express insurance and refused the expensive insurance offered by the car rental company, but now we're not so sure that's the wise choice.
Has anyone else had a problem with this? We've always counted on American Express insurance and refused the expensive insurance offered by the car rental company, but now we're not so sure that's the wise choice.
Chris, there was an article just this past weekend in my local paper about this very same issue - the fact that the rental car companies are refusing to provide the credit card companies with the required information to process the claim.
There are all sorts of other barriers. How about business hours of the home insurance company not coresponding so they never can talk to someone in Europe.If they don't speak english another problem. RR
Yikes! I take the cheaper rate when renting cars in Europe (other than in Italy) and assume my AMEX will cover us. I am looking at a 60 day car rental in England and it is half the price if you take it without insurance.
And I always rent in the US without the insurance and assume I am covered by AMEX and my own car insurance.
Luckily nothing has ever happened and we have not tested this - now I am nervous about this!
This is obviously a very personal choice... but we always use our credit card insurance (except in Italy of course).
Over the years we have made a couple of small claims here in Canada, without problem.
We did make a claim re a rental in the UK. As we dropped the car off at the airport they found a scrap UNDER the front bumper (who looks there when you pick up the car?). The credit card company requested a copy of the repair estimates and bill. When I asked the car rental company for this they explained that they hadn't actually made the repair because it was cheaper for me if they amortized the cost over the life of the car (or some such cock and bull story). I was sure that this would cause the credit card company to refuse the claim - but to their credit they paid it without question.
Lesson learned.... ALWAYS check under the bumper, and follow up quickly with the paperwork! I do think there is a tendancy to wear you down with the paperwork.
Originally posted by Pauline: Yikes! I take the cheaper rate when renting cars in Europe (other than in Italy) and assume my AMEX will cover us. I am looking at a 60 day car rental in England and it is half the price if you take it without insurance.
And I always rent in the US without the insurance and assume I am covered by AMEX and my own car insurance.
Luckily nothing has ever happened and we have not tested this - now I am nervous about this!
Pauline in the US I do that as well. Have you looked into leasing? RR
We hesitated over this, then went ahead and declined the insurance with Avis in favor of American Express and our own insurance on our recent trip to Hawaii. Fortunately, we had no problems.
I'm not sure what we'll do next time we rent a car in Europe. Next spring we'll be carless in Paris for three weeks, so we won't have to decide until the trip after that. I'm fairly sure we will never rent from Europcar again (with or without their insurance), even though I have always been AutoEurope's biggest fan.
I am looking at a 60 day car rental in England and it is half the price if you take it without insurance.
Pauline, I know that the credit card insurance I use (Amex) limits the number of days one can have a rental, if you want to use their insurance instead of the rental companies. I have called Amex prior to traveling and had them read the relevant information to me and then also send me a copy in writing of the coverage .
Posts: 264 | Location: US | Registered: 14 July 2002
You are right - I forgot that! You are limited to 30 days.
I did look into leasing and the cost was a lot more than renting from AutoEurope without the insurance - but I see now that we can't do that. I will have to look at some other options.
Chris, did you call AutoEurope about this? Maybe they can step in. I can email our contact there if you want me to.
This is really interesting....I rent cars in Canada fairly often (I live in central Canada, the rest of my family is in rural Alberta, far from any airports) and for years I relied on my Amex for rental car insurance but was never completely comfortable with that.
So a few years ago, I added rental car coverage to my own car insurance. It's cheap, maybe $50 a year, and great for my piece of mind. I've assumed this would also cover a rental a car outside North America (although I haven't yet tested this)I think I'll give my agent a quick call to find out! One should never,ever make assumptions when insurance is involved.
I didn't contact AutoEurope, Pauline, because I always assumed once you're handed off to the rental company, their part was over. If you would email your contact just to see, I'd be very greatful!
Sandra, you might also want to ask what happens if the rental company won't cooperate with information. I'm afraid you could have the same problem we have if the the insurance company is unable to get the claim information.
When you rent through AutoEurope you can specify that you don't want Europcar. We have done that because we have often not liked their attitude or service. Sometimes it will cost more to go with AVIS or one of their other contractors but if they are more honorable and cooperative, it is worth it.
The # of days that you can be covered by your credit card differs between home and abroad. Right now I forget the difference. I believe that it is shorter at home.
I agree that AutoEurope should be apprised of your experience as it is serious for you and others.
Pauline, if you are going to in England 60 days can't you do a short term lease through Renault or Peugout (sic)? In France the rate covers all insurance - not sure if you can get it in the UK.
So a few years ago, I added rental car coverage to my own car insurance. It's cheap, maybe $50 a year, and great for my piece of mind. I've assumed this would also cover a rental a car outside North America (although I haven't yet tested this)I think I'll give my agent a quick call to find out! One should never,ever make assumptions when insurance is involved.
This is so true. There is a North American Insurance sold on insurance sites, but this doesn't cover other countries. Moreover, you have to be really careful as both the private insurance and CC insurance has non written rules: and these are excluding some of the countries completely from the coverage. When I asked about Italy I was told by CC that yes they do cover, but then they explicitely say they won't cover if you won't decline CDW/Theft. In a number of countries this is impossible to completely decline because it is the law to have some CDW/Theft protection.
Moreover most if not all companies and CCs are not covering if any other problem with a car like in our case (the car just broke). The super insurance from car rental doesn't cover it neither. I am wondering if anyone tried to use the insurance sold also by Nova car hire? Does it really work? This is a European company. If yes it would be the way to go, as they seem to cover anything bad with the car when reading the contract at least.
You are right - I forgot that! You are limited to 30 days.
I did look into leasing and the cost was a lot more than renting from AutoEurope without the insurance - but I see now that we can't do that. I will have to look at some other options.
Pauline, have you considered having two separate rentals, maybe with a carless day between the two?
Pauline, have you considered having two separate rentals, maybe with a carless day between the two?
I've done this before in the US - with two different rental companies and two different credit cards even. I was later informed by one of the credit card companies that it's not kosher - that if there is another rental on a consecutive day, that counts as longer than the limit. I don't know if they often do any background research to find that info out, but it's a consideration. My soloution: rent for 30 days, take a day or two off, and then begin another rental with another company and another card.
This is an extreme option but in 1957 my parents did it! They bought a C2 and sold it for almost the same amount(they were only in europe for 6 weeks). Apparently French folks have a tendency to not like brand new cars.RR
The problem with doing the buy-back with a new car is that you have to get it at the airport and I want to pickup our car in Bath. I guess we could do a regular rental for a week, then drive out to the airport to get a leased car.
We rented a car in England in 1988 for 6 months - dealing with a local agency that was very inexpensive. I am going to look into doing that.
If we decide to stay for a year, we will either buy a car or do a long term lease.
Okay, I'm still confused. I understand that AutoEurope is a broker, and that the actual rental agency may vary, but when you rent thru AutoEurope, don't you still have the zero deductible regardless of the agency you end up with???
Originally posted by Robert Rainey: This is an extreme option but in 1957 my parents did it! They bought a C2 and sold it for almost the same amount(they were only in europe for 6 weeks). Apparently French folks have a tendency to not like brand new cars.RR
That was the same year my father brought his giant Desota to Italy. That was quite an experience.
Posts: 560 | Location: Connecticut | Registered: 02 December 2005
"Inclusive" rates include collision/damage insurance, Barb.
From the AutoEurope website:
quote:
All of Auto Europe's rates include third party liability and fire insurance. Collision Damage Waiver is included in all of Auto Europe's "Inclusive" rates. "Inclusive" rates will also include Theft insurance in most cases.
Collision Damage Waiver and theft insurance releases the client from full financial responsibility for the vehicle in case of an accident or theft. In most cases, the client will still be responsible for a deductible of some sort when collision and theft are purchased. Most car rental suppliers will offer insurance locally which can reduce the collision and theft deductible if the client wishes to do so.
We have always declined this additional coverage because American Express provides the same coverage.
Originally posted by Chris: "Inclusive" rates include collision/damage insurance, Barb.
There is another insurance that was added on to our bill with AE. It covers the replacing of windshields, tires, and damage under the car. This is not covered by the other insurance. You have to read all the items on your invoice carefully before signing it. This was added by Europcar.
Posts: 560 | Location: Connecticut | Registered: 02 December 2005
I added the 2nd type insurance on my 2nd rental last trip. we noticed almost immediately that a hubcap was gone almost certainly it was gone when we picked up the car. But it was late evening when we arrived and there were few people to mark damages so I never bothered.
When we checked in the car I pointed it out, I went to the desk, Oh no problem,its only 10 euro...... with a 50 euro administration fee!! complains to them and auto europe were no help.
Renting a car in Italy is different than in other European countries. Most credit cards will not cover car rental insurance for Italy, so you have to use the Inclusive rate from AutoEurope (car rental plus insurance). AutoEurope used to have a zero deductible for Italy, but I think that has changed now. Read your contract for details. Talk to your credit card company to see if they cover car rental insurance for Italy.
I know that using AutoEurope in Switzerland and England recently, there is a large deductible even if you take the Inclusive rate (which includes insurance).
Another thing to do, even when renting in the US, is to walk around your rental car when you pick it up and have them make a note of any damage. That way you are not responsible for it. I also take photos of the car when I returned it, so I have a record of how I returned the car.
I don't think AutoEurope has a zero deductible option any more.
We rented through AE for our 3 week trip in May and picked up/dropped off the car at the Zurich Airport. There was a $825 deductible on the rental. We apparently caught a pebble on the windshield at some point on the trip and the windshield developed a crack right up the center about 4 days into our trip. We could not see any chip but upon renting the car to National Car Rental in Zurich, their guy lifted up one of the windshield wipers and there was a little chip in the very small space between the bottom of the wiper and the hood of the car. I am not totally convinced it wasn't there already when we picked up the car but we'll never know. We got socked for $700 by National to replace the windshield.
However, when I went back to Italy in August, I rented my car through Kemwel - which AE now owns - and I DID get a zero deductible, even in Italy. Their rates were a little cheaper than AE but basically the website looks pretty much the same. They have the same Basic/Inclusive rates as AE and all the transactions were processed through AE's offices too.
So you might want to check Kemwel to see if they still offer zero deductibles on rentals.
Tery
Posts: 250 | Location: Mission Viejo, CA, USA | Registered: 18 May 2003
AutoEurope.ca still was offering 0 deductible at least until now. However, this was not the case on all of the rentals. Some dates and pickup places when I pulled it came no 0 deductible. Could it be related to which company is renting? For example when it was Avis, they offered 0 deductible. So, you may want to use the canadian site to reserve a car.
Last year I obtained a letter from my credit card company (Visa / Capital One) verifying that a rental charged on their card would be insured outside the US up to 31 days, and that the loss/damage waiver "offered by the rental agency must be declined by the cardholder in any state or country except where prohibited by law." I confirmed with the Visa rep that this would cover any damage charges incurred in Italy. There is another thread here on the board (probably in the Italy forum) about this.
However, I don't know what good this would do me in a situation like Chris had. At any rate, it sounds like a good idea to try to avoid Europcar. By the way, although AutoEurope doesn't show you up front which agency will provide your car, you can generally see it if you go all the way through to the last step of booking before providing your credit card. At that point, if you don't want that agency, you can back out and choose another pickup point, assuming that the place where you are renting has more than one option.
Also, often AutoEurope UK (which we have generally used) has different options from the US site. The same is probably true for Canada.
Up until a couple of years ago, AutoEurope US had zero deductible for Italy but not for other European countries. I remember someone posting about this on the Italy forum a couple of years ago - that the zero deductible option was gone.
Europcar offered us additional insurance to cover the deductible this summer when we picked up a car in Switzerland, but if you worked out the daily cost over the length of the rental, you were paying about $500 to insure against a $500 deductible!
The problem with Insurance is when an accident occurs what happens? It really dosn't matter what is written. The most sure choice is to take the insurance offered by the rental company, because they would have a hard time explaining why something wasn't covered under their own policy.
Other companies can say if if if
I would never rely on esentially secondary coverage outside the US. RR
Originally posted by Pauline: Yikes! I take the cheaper rate when renting cars in Europe (other than in Italy) and assume my AMEX will cover us. I am looking at a 60 day car rental in England and it is half the price if you take it without insurance.
And I always rent in the US without the insurance and assume I am covered by AMEX and my own car insurance.
Luckily nothing has ever happened and we have not tested this - now I am nervous about this!
We called our car insurance company here in the US (Allstate) for $20 a year we can get coverage REGARDLESS of what we drive. Basically we got insurance for rental cars we drive on an occasional basis. They probably would charge more if we rented for 2 months but probably not more than our current policy per month. Make sure that they understand you want coverage that allows you to drive rental cars not coverage that gives you a rental car if your's is damaged in an accident.
Check with your american insurance. Many of them will also cover you overseas on rentals.
Another option for long term would be to consider shipping your american car over to Europe. There are some places where the cost of shipping would be less than a 6 week rental.
I hate our 12 year old 4 Runner! Plus with the bad mileage it gets, it would cost a fortune to drive it there.
I spent a day comparing prices from everyone and found a rate from Enterprise for half of the AutoEurope price - including insurance. I still have to phone them to be sure of what it covers - and then I guess I could see if AutoEurope would meet the price. It was about $2000 for a 60 day rental.
The good news for Chris is that the customer service manager for AutoEurope is contacting Europcar to get the paperwork for their insurance claim.
Yes, I was very happy to see that AutoEurope is trying to help. Thanks for contacting them, Pauline!
Our problem all along has not been with how to insure the rental car. American Express has been more than helpful, and I have no doubt they will pay, when and if they get a claim. Our problem is that Europcar, the rental agency, has so far refused to cooperate with us or with American Express, which is our insurance company.
I don't think having different insurance arrangements would have made a lick of difference, unless they were with Europcar.
I have an additional coverage on my vehicle that covers a rental if my personal vehicle is stationary while I'm driving the rental. That's a given, as my car is left at airport parking while I'm travelling, so it works for me. My insurance covers the rental for whatever my personal vehicle is covered for. I'm not willing to pay the hideous costs that rental companies ask for their insurance.
Check with your insurance company, see if they will add it on to your current policy...it's cheap and effective.
"Car rental fees are going up all the time, and are to be avoided. As a substitute for these charges, we recommend car-sharing. Simply turn a luminescent safety vest inside out, and you will notice that it now says “VALET PARKING ATTENDANT” over the left breast pocket. After arriving at your destination, stand at the curb in front of the airport departure terminal. Studies have shown that within 10 minutes someone will hand you the keys to their car, which they are unlikely to need again for three to five days." ~ from a company-issued cost saving memo on WordPress Brenda
I wonder if there is another issue here that has not, I think, been mentioned. Car rental in Europe is indeed fraught with pitfalls. As others have noted above, many visitors from the US rely on their home auto-insurance policy or on AmEx credit card coverage (either to cover an non-waivable excess or, as suggested above, to cover the entire insurance).
But to take a car across an international border within Europe (and it matters not whether those borders are controlled or uncontrolled), you are legaly obliged to have a green card that relates to that car. This obligation applies to some thirty five countries, and police can stop a car carrying an out-of-country licence tag and request sight of that green card.
I'm interested in how US visitors who decline European insurance fare when they cross borders or have a mishap in a country outside that where the vehicle is rented. Surely you have no green card.
I'm confused about the "green card" is it the same as the insurance envelope attached to the window containing your current insurance renewal from your insurance company? It is a stiff piece of paper like a card but here in Italy it's not green.
Nicky is quite right to warn non-Europeans to check their insurance coverage if they decline European insurance. But the Green card is no longer obligatory for EU-insured cars crossing borders within most of Europe. So, Barb, if your car is insured with an Italian company, you're fine to drive it across to France (or Switzerland, or Croatia...), and I'm fine driving my UK-insured car throughout W Europe. More details at the Motor Insurers' Bureau site.
Jonathan
Posts: 3395 | Location: Stroud, UK | Registered: 18 November 2001
Originally posted by Chris: Our problem all along has not been with how to insure the rental car. American Express has been more than helpful, and I have no doubt they will pay, when and if they get a claim.
But thank goodness for this thread reminding me that this only works for a 30 day rental! I found a good rate that includes insurance, but still need to look into this more. And if AutoEurope gets your paperwork from Europcar, then we can all have faith in this system working.
Chris - please keep us informed on how your saga turns out.
I think that your scenario is a very common one -using your gold card and refusing the local coverage - so it will be very interesting to find out if the "missing" paperwork does arrive.
It would definitely change how a lot of people book a rental - myself included. Thanks
BC Brenda
Posts: 353 | Location: Vancouver Island, BC | Registered: 26 December 2006
Ed Perkins wrote an article in the SF Chronicle on Thursday that is very much related to this thread -- this is obviously a widespread problem. Thanks, Chris, for bringing it to our attention.
Judy
Posts: 3901 | Location: Berkeley, CA | Registered: 22 March 2005
Yes, I've been reading the Perkins columns. The difference is that he's talking about loss-of-use charges, which rental agencies are charging the customer for the time the car is down for repair and unavailable to be rented again.
His first column is here and the followup from last Thursday is here.
Maybe I should email him about my problem and see if has encountered others like it.
I had the same experience, Amex, France, car accident, unresponsive rental company, etc.
In my case, I called both Amex offices here and the rental agencies in France, kept all documentation and records from my calls, and finally got Amex to agree that the car rental agency wasn't responding with the proper paperwork and charged back the repair fee to the vendor, so it was settled in my favor.
Slow Travel Talk 
