So far I have never rented a car in Europe. I'm not a confident driver, and I feel safer that way, and I'm always traveling on a budget so I don't really want to pay for one either.
Still, it seems there are some destinations that are more or less impossible without a car.
How have people worked this out, if you do not feel comfortable driving in Europe?
It depends on how much you want\need to see. I have never rented a car so I can only speak from that point of view bus\train\plane have done it for me there are very few places you can't get to using one of them. It may not be quick and easy to get to a place but you can get there. For me its the hassle of the various areas rules, laws, and ticket set ups not to mention parking. No worth it IMHO.
Originally posted by WillTravel:How have people worked this out, if you do not feel comfortable driving in Europe?
Comfort comes with experience.
I think in these discussions the negative points of driving in Europe are stressed way too much in comparison with the benefits, and this is evidently due to the fact that the vast majority of travellers, who feel comfortable driving, are more concerned with directions, distances, hours, traffic laws, parking, tickets , etc.
Roads in Europe are pretty good; driving once you are in traffic is really much more orderly than its reputation.
This being said, there are people who fear the notion of driving in unknown locations and circumstances and they shape their travel plans accordingly. Regardless of the mode of transportation, something, somewhere, will be missed. Plan according to what you can do.
We rented a car once, and we're not sorry we did it, but we haven't rented since.
And it's not because of being uncomfortable driving a manual transmission in Italy. We drove around in the middle of Florence, Rome and Naples, without the slightest mishap or problem with directions.
But we like to walk, and we like the cities. If either of these are not what you prefer, then a car might work out well for you. For example, many (but not all) of the monasteries that rent rooms are far outside the city - sometimes so remote they only get a bus once a day. Without a car, you're not going to be seeing a lot else - countryside or city.
We actually rented a place out in the country once, without a car. It worked out fine, but may not be everybody's cup of tea.
Posts: 401 | Location: Northern VA | Registered: 13 October 2004
The thing that I miss more when I do not rent a car is the possibility of stopping whenever I wish... to take a photo, drink a coffee, take a walk around "that nice village up there", make an unplanned detour... freedom, that is.... As Doru sais, something somewhere will be missed anyway but I tend to like my freedom when travelling... Of course this is not a great problem when you're mostly staying in biggish places where public transport is frequent and efficient (I experienced this when staying in and around Amsterdam).
To me it would depend upon your level of trepidation. If it would cause anxiety to drive - they don't do it. Some of us look forward to driving adventures...some of us don't like to navigate in "foreign" surroundings. I don't like surprises when I drive! I would rather pay someone else to help me get there which is usually possible with a bit of thought and creativity. I agree with the other posters about the world that it would open up - this is just my personal bias. (I think it all harkens back to one fateful day in Britain when faced with my first "roundabout", attached to motorway and I was unsure of which exit to take...and everyone was driving so fast and I had to concentrate on staying left - I ended up just driving ON the roundabout median and sat there and cried - I am a whimp)
Will, I think I understand (and share) your concerns. But Giulia makes a good point about the freedom a car can bring.
On my last 2 trips to Italy, I've rented a car for just a few days each time and that approach is working well for me.
Last month, for example, on a 3-week trip in Italy, I spent two weeks in the Emilia-Romagna using trains to get everywhere I wanted to go. Then, for the final 5 nights of the trip which I spent in Umbria, I rented a car. This was strictly to allow me to visit smaller towns and rural areas; I've stayed in Perugia twice and wouldn't dream of using a car when I'm there.
There are a lot of places in Europe where I wouldn't want to drive and don't think I'd need to drive anyway. But in more rural areas with little public transport (and with little traffic!) I'm finding a car makes my stay more pleasant.
In big cities with good transportation like London, Paris, Rome or Florence -- no car.
Even in smaller cities/villages, there will often been sufficient public transportation. When we spent a week in Sorrento, we didn't rent a car and used the train, ferry, bus, or walked.
We're going to spend 8 days in Antibes next year and don't plan to rent a car (except for maybe a 1 day excursion). We'll walk or use the train or bus.
In Provence, Tuscany and similar rural, countryside locations -- must have a car in order to get out and about. We like to "just drive around" and don't necessarily have to be going to a specific place.
I think what's really good is to have one person be the navigator (map reader/road signs) while the other one drives -- if you don't have a GPS system. We've yet to use a GPS, but I know it's just a matter of time.
Where are you thinking of renting a car WillTravel? That makes a huge difference - in what you see and how uncomfortable it is to drive.
One of the cool things about having a car is, you can pretty much load up the car. So if you are between places, you can have your bag of leftover groceries, a case of wine, whatever. When I go to Spain in September, I'll be able to buy one bottle of oil for all of my apartment stays instead of three. I kind of like that.
It really helps to drive with someone else though - trying to drive AND navigate can really suck. I got impossibly lost in Catania and again in Ragusa in Sicily on the same day... it was incredibly frustrating. Having a navigator would have helped immensely.
Having said that, I love train travel - I love the station, I love the picnic, I love the people watching, and the convenience. I'd never want to give that up completely. Also one thing I have learned when driving - if you get lost, look for the local tourist office, and don't be scared to ask a local for help. Even in small towns you can drive around in circles for two hours when a simple question could peel at least an hour off that.
Driving in Europe is not difficult. The autostrada is actually easier to drive than smaller roads. Europeans are excellent drivers.
Always pay attention to the driver coming from the right. That is what the Europeans do. That way, anything on your left is taken care of by the other driver.
If you get lost drive around until you find a major highway sign. Get on it. If you find out that you are going in the wrong direction, get off at the next exit and go back heading the other way.
Make sure that you know the names of all of the cities along the way. Some of the town names will disappear, however, major town names will always be listed.
If all else fails, and you are lost, hail down a cab, tell him where you want to go and follow him. It has worked well for us when we needed to find a hotel in a large city.
All of the above suggestions from ST are right on.
I'm an extreme case. I hate driving and am phobic about highway driving even near home. Add to that the cost and environmental concerns, and there's no way I'll rent a car when soloing in Europe.
I deal with it partly by adjusting my attitude. There defintely are things I can't do and places I can't go, but rather than concentrating on what I'm missing I enjoy doing what I can. About 20 of my trips to Europe have been solo and carless, and I've enjoyed them all. (Actually, one of my worst trips was a car trip with two other people, when we all quickly discovered that we had incompatible travel styles.) Although I've spent a lot of the time in cities, I've also reached some moderately obscure places without major complications after doing my research, just for example, Bregninge, Denmark; Pinzolo, Italy; Lochmaddy, Scotland; and Prvic Luka, Croatia.
I can't visit as many places in one trip as I could by car, I can't usually stop at whim, and I need to do plenty of research and be flexible and willing to ask stupid questions to strangers. That all can get old, but it can also lead to memorable encounters like when a bunch of Hungarian teenagers eagerly helped me decode the bus schedule from Sopron (where?) to Nagycenk (where??).
For me, probably the biggest drawback, other than having to schlep luggage, is not being able to reach remote archaeological sites. Fortunately, I manage to do that on the trips I take with friends who drive. And fortunately, I never have trouble finding more than enough accessible things to see and do when carless.
Travel involves tradeoffs: going to Country X necessarily means you're missing Country Y. And there are compromises: the budget hotel experience lacks the comforts of more costly lodging. Not having a car does impose certain limitations. But when it's a choice between living with those realities and staying home....
Posts: 821 | Location: San Francisco Bay Area | Registered: 28 June 2006
(I think it all harkens back to one fateful day in Britain when faced with my first "roundabout", attached to motorway and I was unsure of which exit to take...and everyone was driving so fast and I had to concentrate on staying left - I ended up just driving ON the roundabout median and sat there and cried - I am a whimp)
Not a wimp at all, Debrah - I can quite see how our many roundabouts can be a source of confusion and terror!
I must admit I have never seen anyone end up in the centre before, but there are often wild eyed drivers going around and around trying to decide where to get off. The larger and busier ones now have traffic lights at least part of the way around and the trick is to try and remember your exit as a place on the clock (ie coming off at 3 o'clock, rather than the third exit) and to look for the road numbers or place name abbreviations painted on the road lanes, which help you get into position. Some of them are still devilish, though - keep on circling, or come off where you can to get your bearings!
Everyone is very alert on roundabouts (you kind of grow 360 degree eyes)- the real danger is getting shunted when the car behind thinks you are going onto the roundabout but you hesitate.
Posts: 1402 | Location: London, UK | Registered: 20 September 2006
It is true that travelling is always about choosing, choosing what to see and choosing what to miss. As long as one has the choice. I love trains too, but the train simply does not reach everywhere I want to go.
It is true that if you stick to Paris, Barcelona, Rome, the French Riviera, etc., you do not need to drive. In fact it woud be downright masochistic to drive (but I respect all persuasions… ).
But missing the villages perchés of Provence and the countryside of Dordogne-Lot, etc., is missing a lot.
Christy, have you considered trying the most painless way of driving, which means: - no inner city driving. You pick up and deliver car outside the city. For example, if you are in Paris, then pick up and deliver car at one of the airports, which you can reach easily by many transport means. - do a user-friendly route. For example, take train to Avignon, then rent car to explore Provence. Or take slow drive from Paris (Orly) to Provence, stopping overnight in a Burgundy vineyard. This way you do not drive more than 4 hours a day, and you do explore an area that trains do not reach, plus most of the driving will be straightforward autoroute driving. - get a good GPS.
Again, I do not mean to convert you to this or that, but for your enjoyment, it will be great if you expand your choice…
You might, sometime, just try renting one for a day or two in the countryside. That's where you'd need one anyway. TGV to Bordeaux or Dijon or Avignon then use the car to see the wineries, hill towns, etc. Stay at a beautiful b and b or country inn that you couldn't access any other way (these can be very budget friendly, out in the country). Getting a car with a gps would be a good idea, since then you wouldn't have to feel anxious about getting lost.
I think driving in a foreign country isn't nearly as intimidating as it sounds (in Europe that is). If you are confident enough to rent a car in the US or Canada on vacations, you'll be fine most place in Europe.
How have people worked this out, if you do not feel comfortable driving in Europe?
By traveling with a friend who does My usual travel buddy drives a manual at home, and has no problem driving in Europe (except she goes too fast!) She drives, I navigate and pray. It works for us!
Anne
Posts: 341 | Location: Louisiana | Registered: 01 May 2005
What an interesting topic...When I have posted inquiries about traveling without a car, many, probably most, of the replies I get are encouraging me to reconsider and rent a car.
Our first number of trips to Europe we always rented a car; now we use only public transportation. Three of us travel together, one 65, one 74 and one 81. We have driven in Mexico and Europe (Italy, France, Switzerland, Spain, Portugal -- probably others, I can't remember). After the first trips (10 years or so ago), my brother-in-law opted out of driving; that left two of us to share it. Now with our ages I would have to do all of the driving. Parking in many places is a large hassle. There are pluses and minuses both ways; expenses both ways. I would opt for what fits your comfort level. There are places you would dearly love to see but getting there on public transportation is too complicated or time-consuming --- buses and train can be both. On the other hand...there are many, many lovely, wonderful, charming, delightful, interesting and fun places that with some planning and flexibility you will be able to enjoy.
Whatever you decide, enjoy the adventure. You'll find lots either way.
Ciao, Roberta
Posts: 98 | Location: Virginia | Registered: 16 April 2006
On only our second trip to Europe many years ago, we rented a car and traveled around Ireland using B&B vouchers. It was even more of an adventure given having to drive on the left. I maintain to this day that the true test of a marriage involves a small rental car in an unfamiliar place, with less than totally accurate maps; I'm still amazed we didn't end up killing each other or divorced But it was really the only way to see the countryside and get off the beaten path.
That said, on that and future trips, we only drive in the countryside and in small villages and towns - if we do big cities, we skip the car.
If someone is truly uncomfortable driving in Europe and still wants to see the countryside, there are usually "car and driver" hires available (at a cost) in many locations in Italy, France and the UK (my experience). When traveling in Europe on business in the past, our company always provided a car and driver for us. We're now retired and we sort of miss that luxury way to get around! LOL
WillTravel, if you have in mind destinations that truly are more or less impossible without a car, then you rent a car, or hire a driver. There's no way to "work it out."
The real problem is that, with the exception of military sites closed to the public, there aren't any destinations that are impossible without a car. One might have to backpack and sleep out. One might have to spend days trekking on buses and foot to places a car could go in a few hours. One might have to hire mountain guides and be in really good physical condition.
But people take walking tours all over Europe. Britain, Germany and France are covered with excellent hiking trails. Maybe in Italy, not so extensive. Our friend Audra does walking tours every year. She walks a set itinerary with a small guided group. A sag wagon transports their luggage. Not that I'm recommending that. I just mean it's perfectly possible to get out in the countryside without a car.
Whether to rent a car or not is merely a matter of your level of aversion to driving, and determination or need to get somewhere that's inconvenient to public transportation.
More detail on the places alleged to be "more or less impossible without a car" would help the folks here give you concrete tips.
Thanks! Bucky "Trying To Slow Down" Edgett
Posts: 916 | Location: Maryland | Registered: 24 April 2006
I maintain to this day that the true test of a marriage involves a small rental car in an unfamiliar place, with less than totally accurate maps; I'm still amazed we didn't end up killing each other or divorced
Exactly! My husband and I started our marriage with a driving honeymoon in Italy. His first trip out of the US, and me without a driver's license. I have a Total map ripped to shreds as a souvenir of that trip. But we survived to take many more driving vacations in foreign countries, and I am a big fan of renting a car.
I will say that at this point, it's the availability of GPS that allows me to take driving vacations on my own.
And I am one who applauds Marian and her GPS for driving alone in Italy. That GPS has actually saved my marriage, and we also have a few torn maps from earlier trips to show the difference.
More seriously, I think that having a car has certainly allowed us to take routes into the countryside that we would not have seen otherwise. And yet, if we had not been driving, I also think we would have chosen itineraries that still would have given us marvelous trips. Perhaps the suggestion to hire a car and driver for those daytrips, like Chianti or the Amalfi Coast, for places that beg for a car, is a good compromise when you don't want to drive.
Responding to the you can get anywhere without a car argument somewhere above. Technically that is true just like the sign I have at home- "everywhere is walking distance if you have the time."
Sometimes on purpose we cover ground on foot, generally only covering something like 100 miles or so on one trip. But for most of us we have 2-3 weeks and are not staying within "walking distance" of our place or easy transport. RR
I've been to Europe four times and rented a car every time. Since my wife passed away in 2002 I go alone and love it. It's always fun juggling maps, watchng for signs and traffic when you are alone. It's an adventure. I'm heading back in spring 2010.
Driving is really pretty much the same as in the U.S. The traffic laws are almost the same. Probably the most important thing to remember is DO NOT turn right (or left in Ireland & UK)on a red light. In the U.S. we, of course, do so without thinking (when traffic allows). But not true in Europe or most of the world.
I just discovered this forum via the newsletter. Looking back over the prior posts, I would say that I agree with SGabriele and Marian completely.
We (but mostly my husband even before he was my husband) and I have driven all over Western Europe and the UK. We were living in Germany when we first met and soon had a car. Driving was just the natural thing to do while living there, even on the autobahn - though carefully. I've often said, at least to myself, that the reason we got married is that we traveled well together.
We took trains or flew if we were going city-to-city, as from Mainz to Amsterdam, and we've done so much more recently also. However, if we wanted, for instance, to see a particular part of France, as down the Rhone valley, we'd drive, which allowed us to stop where we wanted. I can't imagine doing all we've seen and done otherwise.
We've driven more recently in Tuscany, the Cotswolds (several times), and through Wales. Driving offers a great deal of flexibility, though at times we ran into problems (e.g., our strange experience in San Gimignano).
The problem now is our age. Doyle has become reluctant to drive abroad, and I can't say I blame him. I may try to convince him otherwise though if we decide to take the next trip I'm contemplating.
We have travelled both with and without a car and on balance we definitely prefer not to rent one. Yes, there are advantages to having a car. As so many people have pointed out, there are some out-of-the-way places one simply cannot get to on public transport. Not really that many in Europe though, compared to, say, North America. I suppose, since we ourselves own no car and live in a village that only has five buses a day, we are more accustomed to that way of life so it feels more comfortable to us than zooming around in a car. And slower. Car travel never really feels like 'slow travel' to me. In my experience, the whole feeling of a vacation is different when you use public transport. You mingle with people. You listen to them chatting as they carry their shopping home on the bus. You interact. To me, it feels as though I enter much more fully into the life of a country when I travel around on local buses and trains. Cars insulate. Travelling by car, I get to see some scenic views but it's more like watching a movie than being a part of the place that I am in and sharing in its life. Driving around in a car is like swimming in a wetsuit. Travelling on public transport - especially local buses - is more like skinny-dipping. And to me, that's much more satisfying. Also, if one person does the driving, then she or he doesn't fully get to enjoy the scenery anyway. But I guess it all comes down to personal preference and what you want from a vacation.
Originally posted by WillTravel: Still, it seems there are some destinations that are more or less impossible without a car.
We've had folks speaking in fairly broad terms about countryside and city. And driving conditions, and fears. Well, here's a couple of followup questions. What destinations (or kinds of destinations) are truly impossible without a car? Which are unpractical without a car? Maybe given short vacations of a couple weeks and desires to see a lot of stuff? Or perhaps, what kind of itineraries are impossible/unrealistic with and without cars? I like Marian McCain's comments on cars' insulating one from local experiences.
I'll start off with a specific example. Loie and I have taken eight European trips and several American west trips doing what we call Driving the Stone Age. On these trips we specifically search out Paleolithic and Neolithic sites: painted caves in the Dordogne; stone rings and menhirs in Scotland, England, France and Italy, including Sardinia. Few of these places are in towns. Many of them are on farms or public lands. Almost none of them are signposted, although some close to the road are fairly obvious.
It would certainly be reasonable to reach the more well known of these by public transport. Think Stonehenge and Lascaux II. Out of the dozens of sites we've visited, those are a handful, perhaps four or five? It might be possible to reach, say, half of the rest by public transport. Not having tried to, I don't really know. I'm pretty sure the rest would, at best, be examples of Robert's dictum "everywhere is walking distance if you have the time." And even so, many of these might not be walking distance from the nearest town and back in a reasonable day.
Although it might have been fun to try to see all these sites by public transport and shank's mare, we would have had to spend perhaps ten times, maybe more, the days seeing all the sites we've seen. And given that we don't have the time or funds to spend ten times the time we've spent traveling, without a car we would have ended up seeing one tenth the number of sites we've seen.
So I'd say, unless you're going to retire and devote a couple years to it, seeing prehistory pretty much necessitates a car.
Thanks! Bucky "Trying To Slow Down" Edgett
Posts: 916 | Location: Maryland | Registered: 24 April 2006
, etc.
).
My usual travel buddy drives a manual at home, and has no problem driving in Europe (except she goes too fast!) She drives, I navigate and pray. It works for us!
