This will be our first trip with another couple, our best friends. We've never done this before. Any tips on traveling with friends? Would really like to come home still close friends... Ben
Traveling with friends is like agreeing to be married for the time you're traveling together...with the planning being the engagement!
During planning, talk a lot about your priorities and expectations for the trip; money, time (organized vs. free), and anything else that's important to one couple or the other. Agree on who's in charge of planning what (do you have a point-man? Is this a group activity?)
Once on site, give yourselves lots of flexibility to change your minds (a splurge restaurant, skipping the museum to stay outside in the piazza as long as they're willing to eat the cost of the tickets, etc. etc.) Try to stay as flexible as possible, but understand your own needs, as well as where you need to take care of yourselves. Plan activities together, and apart (Spend that rainy day reading in your room, rent a separate car for the day to make sure you get to a destination important to you...and so on.)
Been there, done that. Only it was with relatives. Here are the fruits of my hard learned experience. My number one mantra? There truly is such a thing as TOO much togetherness.
1) DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT (and I cannot stress this enough) rent an apartment with 2 bedrooms etc. and share the rent. Each of you needs to get your own hotel rooms, apartments, whatever your accomodation arrangements are going to be. You are adults, you have had your own homes for years. There is NOTHING more stressful than being in each others pockets 24/7. If you wanna walk around in your undies, if you wanna fight with your significant other, if you wanna party all night, whatever it is, you can't do it if you are sharing the same apartment.
2) Nobody died and made you responsible for the other couple's happiness, great trip, whatever. You are not the tour guide, you are not the driver, the travel agent, whatever.
3) Determine your travel styles. Are you a culture vulture and they want to shop til they drop? Is your idea of vacation 10 days of sun, surf and cerveza and they aren't happy unless it's go, go, go? If this trip is going to be successful you are going to have to either a) have mutual travel styles or b) understand that you are not going to be with each other all the time. Part of the reason my marriage has lasted 35 years despite our vast differences is because we give each other private time and respect each others differences. If you want this friendship to last the time you spend apart from each other is as important as the time you spend together.
4) Decide upon itinerary mutually. With 2 couples it is EXTREMELY hard to not have a "if this is Tuesday this must be Belgium" trip. Once you have the itinerary set, Rome 14 days, Florence 5, Venice 1 (oops am I letting my prejudices show?) then you book tours. Rome Vatican, Borghese, etc.. Get together with your friends once a day, plan dinner together every other day and with the exception of tours that should be it. Think about it. Even if you are best friends in the world how much do you see each other now every day? once a week? once every couple of weeks? And for how long? If it should work out that the wives want to go shopping on the Via Condotti and the guys want to go wach soccer some day? great!! But do not micro manage this vacation.
5) Watch for the words - "whatever you want to do is fine with us" during the planning stages. If they are uttered pull the plug immediately. Fake a heart attack, whatever. Because that immediately abrogates ALL responsibility for the vacation and their happiness to the other couple. An immediate recipe for catastrophe not only on the vacation but the whole friendship.
Now that I've been Miss Doom and Gloom let me say that it can be a blast traveling with friends.
One last thing - take a longish road trip with them before you head to Italy. MINIMUM of 500 miles one way and 3 days. If the friendship isn't strained by the road trip you have an excellent chance of having a great trip to Italy. If by the end of the 2nd day you want to plant dynamite in their hotel room because they don't get up before noon on vacation? and you are a 6 am riser? Then you need to rethink the idea.
Been there, done that. Only it was with relatives. Here are the fruits of my hard learned experience. My number one mantra? There truly is such a thing as TOO much togetherness.
1) DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT (and I cannot stress this enough) rent an apartment with 2 bedrooms etc. and share the rent. Each of you needs to get your own hotel rooms, apartments, whatever your accomodation arrangements are going to be. You are adults, you have had your own homes for years. There is NOTHING more stressful than being in each others pockets 24/7. If you wanna walk around in your undies, if you wanna fight with your significant other, if you wanna party all night, whatever it is, you can't do it if you are sharing the same apartment.
Having just returned from 14 weeks travelling through Europe, with family (there were five of us), I can't DISAGREE more.
We had 2 & 3 bedroom apartments, with the exception of 3 weeks in Holland where family joined us (and then there were 10).
We did have the occasional dispute, nothing serious. We did many things together and many things on our own.
I was the travel agent and we booked the things we wanted to do together from home before we left.
Other times, we did it from our destination, and did things separately. Some people can only take so many museums, cathedrals, shopping etc.
Cooking was shared, as were expenses for the kitchen. Alcohol and speciality items were not shared expenses. There were no arguments over this arrangement.
Guess what? We still all love each other dearly, and have the added bonus of being able to share our travel experiences.
Elly
Posts: 1066 | Location: Western Australia | Registered: 27 March 2005
Agree to disagree when it's helpful. Just because you are travelling together does not mean you need to spend 24/7 with each other. Someone wants to shop, while someone else wants to spend 11 hours in museums? Fine, go your separate ways, meet up later and share your separate adventures. It will give you more to talk about, and give everyone some space.
For restaurants (and other expenses), agree well in advance how you will split up checks. It can be uncomfortable if part of the group wants to split every check evenly among all in attendance, while others are more attuned to watching the pennies, and need/want to pay only for what they ordered. Any method is a reasonable way to split the bill, as long as all parties agree that it's reasonable.
Originally posted by Rome Addict: 5) Watch for the words - "whatever you want to do is fine with us" during the planning stages. If they are uttered pull the plug immediately. Fake a heart attack, whatever. Because that immediately abrogates ALL responsibility for the vacation and their happiness to the other couple. An immediate recipe for catastrophe not only on the vacation but the whole friendship.
Well, I don't know about pulling the plug immediately, but this is a VERY suspect phrase. Be sure to have OPEN dialogue about expectations and travel styles. Will one couple be okay NOT hanging w/ the other couple some days? How do they see food/apt expenses being split? Are they "foodies" or "chow-hounds" (yes, there is a difference)?
My husband and I traveled with friends we've known for over 10 years for 3 weeks in Italy. We even did the long weekend road trip ahead of time - couple of 'em! - and everything worked out fine. But things we never expected took place when we landed in Italy. Let's just say: feathers were ruffled.
Travel makes people a little wierd, and style makes a world of difference. If these are the folks ya hang out with most and are super comfortable with, it shouldn't be an issue to talk openly to one another.
Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip its been
Travel can make the sanest person crazy, the funniest person cry and the nicest person nastier than a bear with a sore butt. Put people under the immense stress caused by late flights, lost luggage, scruffy accommodations and no sleep, then watch even the best of the best crack up.
I've been blessed to travel with family and friends over the years and it has, for the most part, been a good thing. I also have had the odd trip when someone in the group has been crankier than a mangy dog in the heat of summer. Sometimes that someone has been me.
If you pick your travelling partners wisely, communicate ALL of the little idiosyncrasies that make each of you crazy and then pledge to bite it til it bleeds rather than let loose a bitchy tongue, you might have a great trip.
I echo the wise advice of separate accomms., as in separate apartments or hotel rooms. I say that, not because of my travelling partners, but because of me. I don't like to share...not bathrooms, not bedrooms and especially not shower stalls. So, the best thing I can do, for me and for the people in my group, is to have my own place. What the others choose to do is their decision, and I'm happy with it, whatever it is. I can go to my own space if things get rocky and get away from it totally.
I have a friend who likes to travel in packs! In herds! Honestly, she'll stay in a hotel room with 3 or 4 other people or in a small rental apartment with 6 or more, stacked like cordwood to the rafters! Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuwwwwwwwww! That would make me totally nutso and rabid. But for her, it's 'fun.' To each his/her own, I think!
Nobody says it better... "I have found out there ain't no surer way to find out whether you like people or hate them than to travel with them." ~ Mark Twain "Tom Sawyer Abroad" Brenda
DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT (and I cannot stress this enough) rent an apartment with 2 bedrooms etc. and share the rent.
I disagree with this one too. One of the benefits of traveling with a group is that you can rent a large house, instead of one bedroom apartments on an estate. You can rent a villa - possibly a once in a lifetime experience. Just make sure it is large enough so everyone has some privacy and space.
We had a fabulous group vacation, 4 adults, two toddlers, a nanny, and drop-in visitors: two weeks in two apartments at La Foce.
Were we just lucky? Not completely. After we decided to go and found the apartmernts at La Foce, my friends and I figured out that I should do the planning. This was by no means them saying, "Oh, whatever, it will be fine." Rather, everyone realized that I LOVE planning; I wrote up a pretty detailed itinerary for each day. Which we threw out whenever we needed. I had maps of many towns printed out, restaurant, church, and museum info, something for almost every place near us.
This worked like a champ. Wherever we went, I could steer us to what would be cool. We only followed the itinerary closely when we had reservations, for the Piero Trail, the Ufizzi, an overnight in Rome. Otherwise, we would all pile in the two cars and tool off to some town to explore and usually have lunch.
And when it rained one day, instead of our balloon trip, we just shifted our itinerary around, and went to Monte Olivieto Maggiore and Siena.
But I never felt like a tour guide; we are all pretty smart people, and it was just easier to have one person (moi) organize the nuts and bolts.
It does pay, of course, to be extra-considerate to all the differences in substance and style that we all have, as they can be exacerbated by travel.
Very interesting thread. We recently spent a week in Paris with BIL/spouse and SIL/spouse. Hubby and I had our own apt, and BIL and SIL shared an apt. Maybe b/c we were family and could air our dirty laundry very easily and resolve issues that easily too, but things went without a hitch. There were most days we did things together, and half-days where we went separately. Always ate dinner together.
I think the idea of space is important, whether you are all under the same roof or not.
Also important is what I like to call Terry-time - by that I mean allotting some time to reconnect with yourself (or if you are a couple, yourselves), and not always be in "group-think". This only has to be an hour or so, or a whole day, if necessary. I think it helps you re-integrate and re-center, and everyone benefits.
We will be travelling with BIL and SIL in less than a couple years, and I will be referring to this thread and the other link posted for great advice. Thanks.
Last summer, my boss, who is one of my oldest and very best friends, and I rented a house together in Tuscany for one week (we also shared with another family: mom, dad and 2 kids under 9 yrs., whom we both knew well). Who would have thought it would work? She has a significant other (living together 5 years+), no children and loves art, museums and shopping. We were a family with two teenagers and my mother and father-in-law. We all went our separate ways every day (even tho one day we unexpectedly all ended up in Cortona!). But many evenings we went to dinner together and most afternoons, we all ended up at the villa's pool. Our plan was never to do our daytrips together, but rather to gather in the evenings and share our experiences. It worked wonderfully for us, probably because we were all experienced travelers and didn't need to depend on each other for entertainment.
Maybe we've been lucky, but we have gone twice with different couples, both for 2 weeks and have had great times both times. I think we are even better friends now because of the mutual experience. I think that the key is to pick your travel companions carefully and discuss travel styles. We would never travel with more than one other couple. We always rent an oversize villa (sleeps 6 or 8) and travel with people that are not concerned with counting lire (or euros). We do have a list of friends that we will not travel with under any circumstance and a shorter list of friends that we would. We are leaving in October for another three weeks with yet another couple. Wish us luck. John
After a less-than-satisfactory experience, here is what I learned:
First, a definition: by 'conflict' I mean those occasions when the needs and desires of the various parties are incompatible to some degree. Conflict is often taken to be the same thing as the emotional tension that people feel in reaction to conflict, but when issues and the reactions to same are kept separate, thinking about them (and presumably doing something about them) is a lot easier.
My suggestion to groups planning to travel together is to first discuss together what to do when (as opposed to if) disagreements arise, before they arise. Paradoxically, it is particularly necessary to do this amongst groups that normally get along well, because such groups will have little experience with conflict handling and may well panic when a conflict arises, or is ultimately expressed. I say 'ultimately expressed' because often the reason why conflicts haven't appeared to date is because the people involved have protected the relationship at the expense of their needs or interests, telling themselves, often falsely, that 'it doesn't really matter.' Also, note I said, little experience in HANDLING conflict, not resolving conflict. Many conflicts - some might say most - are never resolved, so setting resolution as one's goal can lead to a lot of frustration and disappointment. In any case, on the occasion in question, I and the various members of my group panicked, with the result that it took far longer for us to recover from the respective episode(s) than might otherwise have been the case.
A group can proceed with a lot more confidence if conflict isn't treated like failure and lack of conflict like success. Indisuputably, a relationship that proceeds without differences is an easier relationship, but a relationship which struggles and ultimately accepts human limitations might well be more valuable. Just like a road across the prairies is easy to build, but a road through the mountains might be the one everyone values the most, for all kinds of reasons.
So, far better if everyone is prepared to think, when differences in opinion arise - we knew this would happen sooner or later, so here's our opportunity to try out dealing with it. Everyone needs to be prepared for the possibility that negotiated agreement might not always be possible, and to have an alternative available in that event.
Okay, soapbox over. I'll be interested to hear what you decide, and why.
The thing with travelling with others is that you all have your own way of doing things and your own way of life in general.
So therefore you need to accept the fact that the people you travel with have THEIR OWN WAY of doing things and THEIR OWN WAY of life in general.
I am Elly's younger sister (one of the people she travelled with for 3 months). as long as you can get a little time for yourself you can do it. My husband and i would go off for a walk by ourselves every now and then, as did the others.
my only advice is when leaving your final destination to go home, leave any crap that happened there so you don't take it in your luggage home and lug that around and having it stop your friendship.
we were very lucky not have bad crap and to have each other and still love each other dearly.
Posts: 28 | Location: Perth Western Australia | Registered: 11 August 2006
Originally posted by Pauline: One of the benefits of traveling with a group is that you can rent a large house, instead of one bedroom apartments on an estate.
Or you can rent a two bedroom apartment and save lots of money so that you can make your trip longer.
For me the key to traveling successfully with another person is that your schedules meet. This is what makes my mom a great traveling companion, she has a very similar timing to mine, we wake up at about the same hour, go to bed at about the same hour and need just as much time to explore the places we travel to. On the other hand, I deeply love my friend Luisella, but I can't stand to travel with her for more than a day, since she's the ultrazoom "if it's Tuesday it must be Belgium" traveler, while my ex had the big disadvantage of needing too many hours of sleep, including an afternoon break: at 3 pm I was at my best, but he wanted to sleep and since he as the one with the driving licence I had to tag along quite often.
Also, make sure they are not the type of people who wnat to do everything toghether. You will need your time to explore the things you are interested into. Having said this, I have had an extremely successful travel with my buddy Susan during which I was really not wanting to do any organizing. I let her pick everything, but her interests and mine are quite similar, so she didn't force me into anything that I knew I would not like.
My wife and I have been to Europe twice now with my twin brother and his wife, and both times were absolutely wonderful experiences.
I think the key for us is that all four of us have similar interests and travel styles. It also helps a lot that all of us like to plan; since everybody is involved in the planning stages, once we are actually on vacation there are no surprises or disappointed expectations. Or rather, since there are always surprises when traveling, I should say that there are no surprises about what kind of vacation we want and the things we want to do. I think having everyone at least somewhat invovled in the planning is really helpful for having a successful trip.
The other thing that I have found important is to be able to recognize when you've had too much "together time" and change plans to accomodate a break from each other for a little while. We typically don't plan lots of time for doing our own thing, but it is really important to be able to be flexible enough to split up for a little while to keep people happy. :-)
Finally, I've really enjoyed sharing apartments on our travels. First off, a two bedroom apartment is usually a lot cheaper than two hotel rooms. But also I find it nice just to have that shared living space in an apartment: it gives us a place to socialize, plan our day, etc, without having to invade each other's private spaces.
All that said, I definately have a lot of friends that I wouldn't want to travel with, just because we wouldn't agree on what to do. Finding compatible travel companions can be difficult, and I feel really lucky to have family that I can travel with so easily.
Posts: 30 | Location: Ithaca, NY | Registered: 11 July 2006
Ilove traveling in groups - big family groups, a couple of couples, whatever. I have had some bad experiences, particularly traveling with another woman, when I shared space with her instead of my husband. She was really annoying in ways that would have bothered me less if there was a third person with us. At least when hBill and I travel together, we have some private space and time at the end of the day. Bill's less enthusiastic. I went on a cruise with 27 of his family - I loved it, he hated it. Mostly, we travel alone, because he's obsessive- compulsive about seeing and doing what he wants to see and do, and sees others as getting in his way.
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