quote:

Originally posted by Mary Jane:
Whatever happened to Pauline's original concentric circles philosophy for visiting, touring and getting to know another country as opposed to trying to "do" 8 places in 8 days ?

I did not want to hijack Gina's thread (1st Italy Trip Suggestions) so I started a new one. I think Mary Jane raises an interesting point. I am a newcomer to this board. I came here after I had participated for some months on another travel board. Although there was some good information on that board, a great number of questions seemed to focus on "seeing" as much as possible in a short period of time. Many posts centered around Florence, Rome, Venice and the Cinque Terre and how to see them all on one trip. It was a very frustrating experience for me, because I found that I was constantly saying the same thing - "slow down, don't do so much - no need to see it all." Also some of the "experts" on that board were not very experienced. One very active poster had been to Italy only once and had seen practically the whole country in a week or so. Of course, different people have differing ideas on travel and I am not in favor of snobbery -"my slow travel is better than....", but I think that this forum offers a unique perspective that should be maintained. There are plenty of places where travelers can go to find other travelers who share a like philosophy. There should not be a "party line" here, but I would hate to see it become just another travel forum. I am sure that I may do or believe some things that others here do not agree with, but those differences are likely more in the details than in our general philosophy of travel. As I said, I am a newbie here, and probably have no business making a post like this, but perhaps some of the "old timers" may want to chime in.

We are definitely slow travelers

Our next trip (starts next month) is three months in Paris. We do have sidetrips planned out of Paris: a week in Colmar, six days in Brugge and a daytrip to London. There will be other sidetrips.

The trip after Paris is three months in Venice.

It's hard for me to give advise to people who wants to see everything in a week or two as we do not travel that way.

Today's fast traveler is tomorrow's slow traveler. All we can do is help them make that transition.

As for concentric circles - I am one of those people who doesn't have enough time to see everything I want to, so my concentric circles are a bit more expansive than Pauline's are. But, I do incorporate as much of the slow travel philosophy into my trips, even if I might (horrors) only stay in a place for two or three days.

One thing I have noticed repeatedly on the Slow Travel Forums is that one of the guiding principles is respect.

When an enthusiastic first-time traveler posts an ambitious (and exhausting) itinerary, the replies from regular ST members often points out politely that perhaps the inquirer would find "better" responses on other boards, and shares a bit of the ST less is more philosophy with them.

But as Shannon says - the 20 something who is SURE this will be the ONLY trip to (Italy, France, Europe, Asia - fill in the blank) may well become the 40 something who returns to savor more slowly what they saw on that first whirlwind trip, and will in turn suggest that others may enjoy doing the same.

As many of us have learned over time - there really is no "one right way".

Judy

I agree that this site has definitely slowed us down! My first two trips to Italy were 3 week whirlwinds, with moving to new places every 3-4 days, lots of luggage, and checking in and out of hotels.

Our last 4 trips have gotten us into trying a week long vacation rental, limiting the itinerary to 3 or 4 stops in 3 weeks, and this May we will be in an apartment for a week in Rome.

While I'd LOVE to spend MONTHS somewhere, the idea of the concentric circles and visiting one region at a time has definitely changed our travel style. No more drives from Venice to the Amalfi coast! The longer we're here, the slower we get (we shoot for a week in each location). Oh for unlimited vacation time or retirement!

quote:

Originally posted by Shannon:
Today's fast traveler is tomorrow's slow traveler. All we can do is help them make that transition.

IMO this statment should be a subtitle somewhere on this site. Sometimes one cannot, at first, crack that nut (i.e the non slowtraveler), but if you keep trying perhaps, perhaps, perhaps, you will help them get to the meat.

Molto Brava!

I am constantly amazed at the patience of the Slow Travel community with first timers who post whirlwind itineraries. Over and over, kind and patient people here take the time to explain the slower travel philosophy and gently guide people toward less ambitious schedules.

Perhaps it is the misleading size and shape of Italy that makes people think they can see it all in one trip. I'm always amused by people who describe their trips like this: We're going to London, Paris, Amsterdam and Italy. Three cities and an entire country! Wow. And all in 10 days too.

What Shannon said.

One of my first trips to Europe was three weeks driving around France, where we stopped a lot but saw very little. On one of my most recent trips, I barely made it out of the Marais in a week.

Also, I think one of the underlying concepts behind SlowTrav is the notion of being aware of not only what and where you will be visiting, but of what your own goals or travel dreams may be. Not cookiecutter trips, but really individual plans, with ample time for exploration and discovery. As we often tell newcomers--this is your trip, not someone else's.

Also, when you slow down you notice more things that you really want to see and do, but just can't work it into your schedule of long lunches in a hill town, roaming the streets taking in all the activities and scenes, walking several blocks to a wonderful restaurant and having to stop and take pictures of beautiful doorways and windows that are so artful and full of character . . . well, you know how it goes.

And when you notice all those things that you just can't fit into your "busy" schedule, that is all the more reason to return so you get to experience those things also. After 2 trips to Firenze, I still haven't made it to the Uffizi. But I plan on doing that on my next trip!

(Wow, how's that for rambling? It could be PWI, but I'm only on my first glass of vino! )

Amy - I like the point you made 'make it your trip, not someone else's'. One reads so many wonderful trip reports, comments etc. on this site that when planning a trip, part of you wants to do it all. But most of us can't so I agree, we need to know what our priorities are. Cheers, MayK

Matt,
Like you, shortly after I became active on ST, I was hit with an … expectation check.
Too many questions such as "is this … trip 'doable' "? Such as: is this 10-day trip for the whole of Italy - or China - doable?
And often the answer was yes.
I continue to find ST informative and often entertaining, but I no longer expect it to be a slowtrave-specific site.

I think you will find that the people who want to do it all in a short space of time, are taking their first major trip overseas.

I was definitely like that and won't ever dismiss someone else who wants to do it all. What I learnt and saw on my whirlwind trip was just a taste and subsequent trips have been slow, very slow.

So to me, people who ask 'is it doable' really are starting to question their itinerary and genuinely want our input.

I found this forum because I wanted slow travel and the answers to my questions, although varied, were invaluable.

Elly

So switching threads too - what Shannon said and what Amy has seconded .

And I am also on Palma's page - so many of us found Slow Travel when looking for travel advice on on our novice trips abroad. And while we would love the opportunity to truly travel slowly, we are bound by vacation time restraints, time of year restraints (teacher schedules), child raising and a whole lot of other things. For us, personally, this site has treated us with such respect and in return, we have learned a lot about making "slower" travel plans, making longer stays, not driving, as Palma says, "from Venice to Amalfi". As a matter of fact, we are only now going to Pompeii and Amalfi this summer because I tossed it out of two previous plans based on what I read here and learned from traveling in Italy.

I will also say that in the beginning, I did feel that maybe we didn't quite "belong" in the Slow Travel community because we were not doing "concentric circles", were not spending a whole week, or a month in an apartment rental in Rome, or a house in the Luberon. But that feeling passed quickly, and I, as I said in my post on Gina's thread, really feel that people, and their various approaches to travel, are treated with the utmost respect here. Well, they usually are.

And yes, with a few more years and a few more trips under the belt, I do sometimes wish that our newer members would do some reading on the this site before posting "where do I go", "where do I stay?" and "are 3 cities and all of Tuscany doable in 11 days?". Kudos to the mods whose answers and links are always gracious. We all have to start somewhere.

And somewhere, someday, all things willing and able, David and I really, really hope we'll be traveling slowly, posting from our villa or house, and truly living la vida Slow Travel. Until then, well, we keep making each new trip just that much "slower" and deeper. Thanks to all of you who make us part of this community.

I probably have less European travel experience than most of you, but we are now retired Motorhomers who have had opportunities to slow down and really enjoy. For us that doesn't necessarily mean staying in a single location and doing concentric circles, it can mean staying in 6 towns in Nova Scotia in 7 weeks. We still didn't get to the entire island and there were many places we simply bypassed, but we quietly savored the places we were.

I've developed my own theory about what makes a trip relaxing and allows one to immerse oneself in a given location/culture. Very simply it is having one's own space and actually doing some of the mundane things one does at home.

With a Motorhome, this is a given--we basically move our condo from one beautiful place to another. We knew we would enjoy our touring days, but who could know we'd enjoy our laundry days? Laundry is an excellent example of what I find makes for Slow Travel. You meet interesting people while doing laundry, you certainly aren't hurried or scrambling from place to place. A rental apartment can do the same thing--especially if you do some cooking. Cooking means shopping which means learning how locals think and spend their own money and time. What could be more immersive than that.

What I found exhausting about our two previous Europe trips wasn't the number of places we stopped--we actually love driving and with small amounts of luggage, we found it no problem at all to set ourselves up early each afternoon and explore and relax to our heart's content. No, the exhaustion came from the city days, after we'd dropped our car and were in a hotel. Basically, we found it impossible to sit around and relax in the hotel, thus found ourselves out and about sightseeing constantly.

That's why we've planned this Italy trip differently. We're going for 23 days, and are spending 7 days in the middle in an apartment. What I'm hoping is that these days of just plain living, with short sightseeing trips several days, will add the sense that we're really savoring the country and people.

It was very important to my husband that we see Rome, Pompeii and Venice, and it was important to our budget that we use Hilton Honors points for some nights, which means that we're in hotels in cities for 10 days, which was what wore me out so fast on other trips. But, I hope we can find small restaurants which are inexpensive enough that we can sit around and just soak up the experience. Frankly, reading trip reports from people who spend $75 per person on lunch has given me some concern about this issue! If $300/day on food is the norm, it will be very hard indeed to relax!

We're planning a very limited amount of our time to trudge-all-day-and-sightsee. I figure a few of those days, and many days when we walk or bus for a few hours midday, nice evenings walking around and soaking up the hopefully warm air, and sitting in great comfort eating slow, simple meals for hours, should result in a Slow Travel type of experience.

A lot of RVrs have a mantra which keeps it fresh while ensuring adequate down-time. It's the 2-2-2 rule. Always stay someplace at least 2 days, never drive more than 200 miles, and arrive where you're going by 2pm. For a European trip where you're going to have to actually pack up in order to move, maybe that should be more like 4, 4, 4. Always stay at least 4 days, never travel for more than 4 hours, and stop by 4pm.

Sometimes, a straight line is just as slow as a concentric circle. But I still consider myself to be a slow traveler.
Last year we started with three days in Madrid (to get over the jet lag and get our bodies into sync with European time.
Then we SLOWLY moved on to Galicia.
We could have flown, or taken a train, or gotten up at 4 AM to drive straight through. But instead we spend 5 days and 4 nights getting from Madrid to Galicia. It was a straight line, but it was at a snails pace.

We spent a week in Galicia at a farm stay before relocating ourselves only a couple of hundred kilometers south to the northern part of Portugal. A week there exploring the Alto Minho, then another slow drive south to Lisbon before our final week there.

In the entire month, we were concentric only in Galicia. But, trust me, it was a VERY slow trip.

Well, I think it depends who you are and where in life you are.

When I was 22, I Euro-railed around Europe for 3 weeks and yes, I wanted to see as much as I possibly could, took night trains to "save" time, hit only the big sights, etc.

Then I moved to Europe and in 6 years, saw a lot of stuff, including some "commando" sightseeing.

Now I'm back in Europe and this time, the pressure is off and I've found I would rather take my time and see things more in-depth. But I also have 2 small children and am over that fear of "I'll never get back here again!!!"

Slow travel is great for families with small kids, older generation, possibly physical impairments or people who just want to relax. But there is a place for folks who want to go commando and see everything because that is really what it does, it takes the pressure off. Then you know what you want to go back and see again and again. I've been to Venice I can't even count how many times now, but I also have been to some cities and regions that I don't feel the need to return to. Wouldn't have known that if I hadn't done whirlwhind trips.

However, just have to say, this board has been so helpful and I am so glad I stumbled across it!

I think my take is slightly different. I don't think that simply staying in one place for 7 days makes a trip slow. Now if you really stayed in that one place yes.

I find the Tuscany itineraries here exausting. We are staying x, day one we are going a,b,c,d then day two c,e,z,v. That kind of trip is just not attractive to me.How about staying in the town you are staying in? RR

Robert - that's my kind of trip! It's sad to plan for a year around a destination, then the minute you arrive you're off to see the "sights". Well, for me anyhow. I love to BE where I'm going...

Laura

i think for some travelers, it will be their ONLY time they will go to that destination, so that's why they cram in all the important sights.

i was actually "scolded" by my cousin who could not believe that in my 2 trips to paris, i've never been to the louvre! personally, i am not a huge museum go-er, but i've been to the smaller museums in paris, like the marmottan & the rodin (and loved those!) and especially since the weather was nice while i was there, all i wanted to do was walk and walk and sit at the parks.

as i get older, i have slowed down a wee bit and just let my whims take over. i still have a list of places i want to go in paris, let's see how many i actually knock off on that next trip.

We are currently in Kona, HI, staying in an apartment for 3 weeks. We aren't going to any other island, just doing 'circles" on the Big Island (it's the only thing you can do, circles.)

But in May we are also going to Italy for about the 15th time since 1982. I will confess that I have not been back to the Uffizi in many years. But I discovered the Bargello at my daughter's urging, and found it wonderful. My husband, who has a low tolerance for museums, also found it so. But here are some things I have been able to experience as a slow traveler:

I went to the market in an alleyway off the main piazza in Citta'di Castello and joined the Italian housewives in fingering the fava bean pods to find the ones most full of beans.

I went to the alimentarii in little towns you never heard of and got to be a familiar face.

I went to buy stamps at a tiny post office on the Ligurian coast with my granddaughter who was 18 months old, and the elderly residents were collecting their pensions. As we waited, the ladies all cooed over Isabelle, especially when one of the old ladies said "Mi chiama Isabella!" and that sealed our friendship.

Later, Isabelle, then 6, and her brother Willy, 10, spent a week in an apartment near Salerno with their mother and got to know the owner of the local salumeria, who gave them free slices of salami every day.

Isabelle and Willy love Rome, and she was most disappointed to discover that we are not Italian!! I told her she's Italian if she wants to be.

On the other hand, I am a huge museum fan. With art history, archaeology, history, and architecture being among my interests, I unashamedly travel partly to see th