Some UK Universities have schools within departments. Though more usually in the UK the term would be something like "the school of Pharmacy is part of the Faculty of Medicine"

Patrick's latest contribution illustrates the major difference between the UK and US uses of the word "college," at least within "collegiate" universities. In something I read earlier today (probably in the Wikipedia "college" entry), it acknowledges that there really is no consistent UK usage, but in those institutions which follow the Oxbridge model, self-contained colleges provide accommodations, board, preparation for a university degree, and the foundation for life-long loyalty.

In the US, on the other hand, colleges (sometimes called "schools") within universities are academic units with a specific educational focus, such as liberal arts, education, business, engineering, etc. Students enrolled in one (or more, in some cases) of them may live on or off campus or at home. A few American private universities, such as Princeton, do have residential colleges on a quasi-Oxbridge model, but these do not have any official educational function.

Ann

Ann, my husband and two sons also graduated from Penn. The medical school has a close tie with the University of Edinburgh medical school. It dates back to 17 something or other. I'm only throwing this in to stay on track as we're in the UK section here. :-)

Some universities here in the UK seem to have 'colleges' in different locations. For instance, Royal Holloway College is part of the University of London although RH is situated elsewhere.

quote:

"At college" might be used to mean any sort of post-school study (especially among older people from families not traditionally going on to higher education), or it might be used to mean post-school technical education (say, if they still have such schemes, where someone is working in a trade for most of the week and away at day-release training on one or two days).

Also for 6th form education , 16-18, where that is how the local authority provides for A level (pre-university). I have one daughter who goes to a school which goes from age 11-18 in the local education authority over the river and another whose school only goes to year 11 (different education authorities - our 'home one' has no sixth forms in any of its secondary schools.) So, when anyone around here talks of college, it tends to mean the local 6th form (year 12 and 13) college - if they say 'going away to college' - it could mean any kind of tertiary education, including the very best universities.

Clear as mud, but we understand it. I had also noticed the relatively recent 'uni' being used - definately from the many Aussie soaps!

I recall uni being used back in 1974 before most Aussie soaps came around.

Some Universities absorbed colleges - and those sometimes kept their names.

To add to the confusion Eton College is a school and Robert Gordon's Institute is a University.

Yes, I agree, CDT.

I remember Uni as an alternative to Varsity in the 1960s in England.

To be really confused - read this article from the U.S. One can see how the words 'college' and 'university' are aimlessly switched and used with really no definite reason at all. It seems very random.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20315268/

Actually, Zuriga, it's not random at all. If you've ever looked at the categories for the US News ratings, you can see clearly how schools are grouped and how the terms are used. The top group, in which Princeton was rated #1, are comprehensive, "national," research universities; most of them also happen to be private. National liberal arts colleges are in a separate category. This group includes those I mentioned earlier, such as Swarthmore, and Williams, which, as usual, was ranked #1. There are also rankings for different regions of the US.

The term "college" is used in this report in the generic sense in order to be inclusive. Actually, there has been increasing criticism of the US News ratings, with the claim being that the criteria they use are too superficial. This is probably true.

Ann

Ann, maybe I should have read the article more carefully. It seemed to be they interchanged the word 'college' with 'university' a few times which could be confusing to those not familiar with the U.S. system.

I agree that such ratings are often questionable. Are there really good criteria for what's the best city to live in in the U.S. .. or elsewhere? I think a lot of Harvard and Yale graduates would dispute that Princeton should be at the top of the list. At least they have a separate category for the small, liberal arts colleges such as Swarthmore - a real favorite of mine.

June

How is private defined in the US? I assumed that all further education is personally funded so why are some colleges designated as private and others not?

In the UK we pay University tuition fees of £3000 per year per student and then living costs on top of (in our case)£80 per week per student. How does this compare with the cost of an education from 18+ in the US?

Some institutions are owned and maintained by government, others by private foundations.

quote:

How is private defined in the US?

Actually, there is a pretty clear distinction. Private universities (and colleges) in the US rely on private funding for the most part, derived from tuition but mostly from endowments. Almost all of those at the top of the US News ratings are private, and almost all of them have very sizeable endowments. (Harvard has the largest by far.) Public universities, though, are relying increasingly on endowments because of costs, which is why many - if not most - have given more attention in recent years to "annual giving" campaigns, something those of us who attended private universities are quite familiar with. Individual units or professors at private institutions, of course, can obtain temporary government funding - or grants - for specific projects.

Public universities are just that, basically. They rely on state funding for the major portion of their revenue, and these funds have to be included in state budgets. [Common faculty question: Is the legislature going to give the universities enough money this year so that we can get pay raises?] Typically, therefore, tuition is much less at public institutions. The University of North Carolina (at Chapel Hill), chartered in 1789, was the first public university in the United States. The establishment of public colleges and universities in the US was helped enormously by the passage of "land-grant" acts (the Morrill Acts) in the 19th century. These acts granted federally controlled land to states for the purpose of higher education, which is why most of them are in the Midwest and the West (which is where the land was).

The mission of land-grant institutions, according to a Wikipedia article, was initially, "to teach agriculture, military tactics, and the mechanic arts, not to the exclusion of classical studies, so that members of the working classes might obtain a practical college education." These acts played a very important role in extending higher education to people who otherwise would not have been able to afford it.

As usual, though, the picture is not always clear-cut. Although my alma mater, the University of Pennsylvania is private, one of its units - the Veterinary School (remember Barbaro and the New Bolton Center?), receives state funding, primarily because it is the only veterinary school in Pennsylvania.

Hope this little history lesson clears things up a bit.

Ann

I see,so do the students at private and public funded institutions pay the same amount of fees or do the private ones charge as they see fit and the public ones pay a regulated amount?.

I would be interested to know how the figures compare to what British(excluding Scotland who are funded differently)students(or their parennts) pay.

Poet,

Historically, tuition at public institutions has been much lower than at those that are private; it is also almost always lower for in-state residents than for out-of-state students. However, rates at public universities increased appreciably in recent years because of burgeoning costs, though, apparently, these increases have slowed. This rise in costs is why they have been copying the fund-raising practices of private universities. How these rates are set varies from state to state. (An aside: Would you say "raise"?)

Here is some fairly current information from a College Board (testing organization) site:

"Published tuition and fee charges at four-year public colleges average $5,836 in 2006-07. ... The average total tuition, fee, room, and board charges for in-state students at public institutions are $12,796."

"Published tuition and fee charges at four-year private colleges average $22,218 in 2006-07... The average total tuition, fee, room, and board charges at private four-year colleges and universities are $30,367."

Big difference! However, those latter totals are reduced for many students by scholarships, loans, and tax benefits (to parents).

Ann

Thanks,so it would seem that the UK charges work out higher with an average of £6,000 per year for tuition,and room only (no board) working out at £18,000 for a three year course.
I think this would make an interesting topic on the general board so I may post a thread there..

Math is not my strong point, but I think Ann meant the average in the U.S. ($30,000 for an Ivy League school) is for one year, not four. I think UK schools have much lower costs averaging out at $12,000 a year even without board. Ann can clarify this.

Yes, I did mean the charges for one year, but so too did poet ["an average of £6,000 per year for tuition,and room only"]. Using her figures, one year in the UK for tuition and room would be higher than tuition (only) at almost any US public college or university, but much less than tuition alone at most US private universities. (And yet it seems that it's harder than ever to get into one of the top schools - US usage.)

Ann

Battery:

UK Battree
US Baddery

UK uses one less syllable, but does use the "T" sound.
US gets the number of syllables correct, but uses "D" sound instead of "T."

Jeff H I beg to differ on your UK pronunciation!

I think some people in the UK might say battree but I believe MOST people say three syllables bat-ter-ree!

In Great Britain there are countless regional accents and of course there are many variations on pronunciation of particular words and you may happen to have been an area where they left out the middle syllable!

When they were trying to track down the serial killer known as 'The Yorkshire Ripper' (late 1970's) using tape recordings of his telephone calls, forensic linguistic experts were able to pinpoint the location of his origins to a very small area. What I am trying to say is, when dealing with pronunciation, there is no right answer for all in the UK.

Well, I've never heard anyone from any part of UK pronounce it as you say - of course I was only in UK for a year and didn't visit every shire and did not have occasion to hear it pronounced everywhere I went anyway. I hear it now and again on TV and it is always as I posted...thus my post.

This entire thread is made up of generalizations (i.e. not exceptions) and none of what is written here is meant to be true 100% of the time or in every last location in either country or applicable to every citizen of either country - we're generalizing. The US has as many variations on pronunciations of word as UK (regionalism, colloquialisms, idioms, etc.) and I'm sure some folks pronounce battery correctly here as well, but not many...and not many in UK, either.

quote:

Well, I've never heard anyone from any part of UK pronounce it as you say

That was my impression too, Jeff - so when I read Felicity's post earlier, I immediately went and asked my wife to say the word. She, too, pronounces it with 3 syllables (albeit a pretty weakly stressed middle one): I always use 2. Mind you, she comes from a family of Hampstead intellectuals, whereas mine were Birmingham engineers

Jonathan

I understand the different backgounds completely..my Mom was an English teacher and never would have said it as though it had two "d's" in it, either - however, I am not my Mom!

Three syllables and two "t's" pronounced in UK (when I say it to myself out loud) sounds like something that might be more common in UK afterall. I'm sure I'll get very few desenters on my US pronunciation, though.