Hello everyone, I hope the day finds you well. My father and I are planning our first trip abroad together to England this summer (my second trip to Europe, his first outside of the U.S finally) and while I could spend an entire month getting to know one little neighborhood, my father is soo excited about our first real vacation that he wants to see everything everywhere in a week (I try to tell him that vacations don't have to be only once in a lifetime, hint hint).
We've compromised on each selecting one place we really want to see, plus our initial arrival/departure in London. I want to hike around the N. Cotswold's and he would like to see castles/heritage sites many of which he's heard of are in Wales. It's breaking down to 3 days in London upon arrival, 2-3 days in the Cotswolds, 3 days in Wales, 2 days in London. How feasible is this logistically? I worry that we'll be spending all of our time travelling to and from and not get to enjoy any location at all. Could anyone recommmend any castles and/or early historic sites closer to London?
Also, we both enjoy the outdoors, photography and history so any sites/experiences/suggestions along those lines would be great. Neither of us are big on sightseeing. Usually I just wait until I get somewhere and ask an innkeeper/shopkeeper/server whathaveyou what they enjoy doing for leisure in the area but since I'm not travelling alone the itenerary needs a little more structure.
Thanks so much for any feedback!
Posts: 12 | Location: USA | Registered: 03 March 2005
You might need to bear in mind that there's a difference between distance on the map and ease of travel between places. The Welsh castles would be in much more dramatic scenery, but Stratford (for Shakespeare) and Warwick Castle are within much easier reach of the North Cotswolds: I don't know public transport in the area, but I'd have thought there'd be buses.
For your time in the Cotswolds, I would base yourself near Stow-on-the-Wold because there are some great hiking trails in that area. We just got back and I will be updating my hiking pages, but have a look at what is there now: http://www.slowtrav.com/uk/hiking/cotswolds.htm
If you only have 2 - 3 days in the Cotwolds, you will only get 2 or 3 hikes done - I would pick them out ahead of time. Maybe a hike in the morning and then explore some of the countryside in the afternoon.
There are castles and ancient sites all over. Is he interested in Stone Circles? If so, then stop at Stonehenge and Avebury on your way to the Cotswolds. There is another good stone circle in the Cotswolds near Chipping Norton - Rollright Stone Circle.
I would suggest going through the websites for National Trust and British Heritage so he can pick out exactly what he wants to see. You might want to do a 3 day driving tour, spending each night in different places, to see several sights.
Frankly, I would miss the Cotswolds and head for North Wales. I'm not Welsh but this is the finest collection of castles anywhere in the world. Most are in the care of Cadw.
The Cotswolds are "nice" but North Wales is spectacular.
Posts: 252 | Location: London, UK | Registered: 08 August 2005
Sounds like a great adventure for you and your dad. I am a "convert" to Slow Travel, but our first several (5? 6?) trips to Europe didn't involve vacation rentals. Sometimes this is the way you get a "taste" of various regions and ideas of where you'd like to come back for more time. We have spent a fair amount of time in London and the Cotswolds, both for shorter stays and longer stays. On one of our earlier trips, we also drove from the Cotswolds into Wales. Maybe our experience will give you some ideas.
I recommend spending your time in London on the front end of your stay. On the back end, I'd suggest only getting yourself to a place near the airport from which you are departing the next morning. (I could suggest a B&B near Gatwick...) That will be the most efficient use of your time.
We have picked up a rental car right in London (Marble Arch) and driven out to the Northern Cotswolds. If you are comfortable to try to do this, you can get there in two hours, most of it a beautiful drive. Some people recommend taking a train to someplace within striking range of the Cotswolds (like Oxford or Cheltenham) and renting a car there.
On our first trip to the Cotswolds (we've since been back twice for stays of a week or more), we stayed only three nights... actually just outside of Stow. I agree with Pauline that this is a good base. (And like Pauline and Steve, we are also hikers.) We drove to Stow through Burford and stopped for an hour or so, so we got to experience that village. It is fun just to drive in the countryside and so I agree with your idea of having a loose plan and letting things develop... perhaps arriving with a list of a few places/activities that interest you. Weather may also be a factor.
In our two full days we were able to do two walks (about two miles each), spend half a day at Blenheim Palace, drive up to Stratford on Avon for dinner, and wander around to most of the villages in the northern Cotwolds. We had some wonderful, unexpected discoveries... I remember the village of Swinbrook (home of the Mitford Sisters) and the ruins of Minster Lovell Hall especially. As we left the Cotswolds (we went to North Devon), we did stop for an hour in the pretty village of Bibury. Looking back, it would have been good to have another full day in the Cotswolds. I would have liked to see one of the beautiful gardens like Hidcote or the incredible Snowshill Manor-- and had to come back to see these and so much more.
On another trip (when we spent eight days in the Cotswolds, most of it doing a circular walk), we drove from Cheltenham where our walk ended into Wales, focusing mainly on the Brecon Beacons. We had no definitive plan, other than the town of Hay-on-Wye (used bookstore capital of the world) and found our way there over the beautiful Gospel Pass road. We did have a reservation at a wonderful inn near Brecon. We actually managed to see quite a bit the next day too, eventually making our way across the river to Bath. A late afternoon visit to Tinturn Abbey was a real highlight for me. (See a report of this trip here) So we really just spent two full days in Wales, though we managed to see quite a bit.
I would mainly recommend that if you plan to change your "base" several times, you not drive too far to the next stop. It will take you longer to travel between stops that you think just looking at a map, especially if you want to get out of the car... which you should. Try to stay two or three nights at any one hotel, just to make best use of your time.
Not me! I have been to the UK many times and the Cotswolds are one of my very favourite spots there that I would hate to miss.
( That said I have never been there when its crowded and the weather has always been good).I find it magical & it has a special place in my heart.Out of all the places in the world that I have been ,its one that still calls to me. I don't think anyone should miss it.
Thanks for all the feedback! That's a good point, kaydee, that it might be a more efficient use of time to combine the time in London to the beginning of the trip. I hadn't really thought about that, or renting a car, but I found a route planner that estimated it only takes about 3hr to drive from Broadway/Stanton to Colwyn Bay/Conwy area so it might actually be feasible and more convienient than the rail system.
It sounds like Wales really is the perfect fit for what my father wants to see, so even if it does take slightly longer to get there, I think there'll be more than plenty to experience there to warrant 2-3 days without changing locations whereas castles closer to London would have been more day-trippy. Besides, in the extremely unfortuant event that this will be the only time my father and I travel to Britain, I'd rather not compromise on something he's wanted to see all his life just to save time. Your suggested websites have helped tremendously and hopefully I'll have hammered out a 'rough' structured itinerary soon.
Posts: 12 | Location: USA | Registered: 03 March 2005
Well, I haven't yet seen the castles in Wales. (They're on my list.) But we've come to think of castles as piles of stones. You need somebody really knowledgeable to help you understand what you're seeing. Of course, if your father is really up on English history and medieval architecture, you need no help. Warwick Castle is an exception, a fully intact, furnished medieval/Edwardian castle, and it's close to the north Cotswolds.
With all those castles, you might be able to take advantage of a Great British Heritage Pass -- though it's not much use in London.
Given your interests, a car is a good idea. But NOT in London. As KayDee suggests, start in London, especially if you have a long flight. (It's easier to get over jet lag in a city, where there are lots of options.) We always get an automatic just to simplify the driving-on-the-other-side adjustment.
Posts: 132 | Location: Seattle, WA USA | Registered: 11 March 2004
I know I am biased but I would say you must come to the North Cotswolds for the fabulous mix of heritage and hiking! Warwick Castle, Sudeley Castle, Kenilworth Castle (ruins) Broughton Castle..... The Cotswold Way, Centeneary Way, The Diamond Way, Heart of England Way...
However, I have to say, public transport is very poor and you would definitely need a car if you are not to spend a huge amount of your precious time waiting for those few and far between (or even non-existent) buses.
Originally posted by SJolly: I found a route planner that estimated it only takes about 3hr to drive from Broadway/Stanton to Colwyn Bay/Conwy area so it might actually be feasible and more convienient than the rail system.
I don't believe your route planner, it seems far too short a time to me. As for hiking, Snowdonia is one of the finest areas in the UK.
While there, do visit Portmeirion. I really do think that The Cotswolds seem to have become something of an American tourist obsession - I can think of many places in the UK that are so much better and much less twee.
I take issue with the recommendations for Warwick Castle - it's a joke castle, turned into a theme park by its present owners. The building remains but its spirit has as much authenticity as anything in Orlando.
If you can afford it, try to stay at least one night at Plas Bodegroes. It is a magical place, and many of the castles are within easy reach.
Posts: 252 | Location: London, UK | Registered: 08 August 2005
. Besides, in the extremely unfortuant event that this will be the only time my father and I travel to Britain, I'd rather not compromise on something he's wanted to see all his life just to save time.
Indeed. I spent a lot of time traveling with my father. We always made a point of meeting in London, and then we'd take things from there. He was my favorite traveling companion, my partner in crime, and I do so miss him. He died two years ago..
I say spend time in London, as has been suggested, in the early part of the trip and then head off into the Cotwolds (a sure NOT miss), and go from there. My guess is you will find it doesn't really matter what you do as long as you are doing it together. One of my favotire memories of my father is of sitting in Hyde Park with him and feeding the squirrels. I can still remember the two of is plunked down on that bench and laughing like kids as we watched a squirrel take food from my hand sitting right next to my shoulder. Our time just exploring and talking was a gift to me.
Robert, Plas Bodegroes looks amazing. All these suggested places really make me wish I did have months to stay there. Some day, some day...
I completly agree with you Kathy that the travelling together aspect is the joy in itself, and it's the little unplanned things that are so memorable. When I went to Paris last spring by myself my most enjoyable moment was eating a sandwich purchased from a non-descript street vendor sitting alongside the Seine watching school children and boats go by. Never would I have actually planned into my itinerary "Go buy lunch when you're hungry from the first place you see that looks good and go sit on the first out-of-the-way block of concrete that you come to" but...there you have it.
After I mentioned a tentative itenerary he replied to me "Well, I really wanted to see Stonehenge and Paris too..." Ack! Talk about trying to do too much. But it looks like I've finally figured it out 3.5 in London, 2.5 travelling up the N. Cotswold for a few days for hiking in the countryside, then driving up to Conwyn Bay/Conwy area for 3.5 to again explore around castles, villages and more hiking outdoors, taking a morning train down to Salisbury for half a day of sightseeing before departing from London the next day. We'll see what we see and hopefully we'll be able to slow down enough to enjoy being there rather than just seeing everything but...either way it's our first time travelling together so there's bound to be some kinks considering our completely different travelling philosophies.
Posts: 12 | Location: USA | Registered: 03 March 2005
Slow Travel Talk 
