I've been following this site for a while, and just joined today.
Late this summer our family will be taking a three week trip to Britain. It will be the first time abroad for the children, who are 16 and 13 year old girls and an 11 year old boy. I backpacked around Europe in the 80s, and my wife and I spent three months in Greece in 1987. I've been back to Europe several times since for work, and last year I had about a ten day stay in London on a job, during which I spent every spare moment exploring. In fact it was that trip which convinced me that I needed to get moving if we were ever to have a family vacation abroad.
Here's an itinerary I'm working on. From it I think you'll get a good idea of our interests--which are varied but perhaps not typical. There is a lot we want to see and do, but hopefully without too much rushing, and with a minimum of days were we drive more than a short distance. We're on a budget and of course the dollar isn't helping, but the yha hostels may be our salvation--and many of them look very appealing as well. Maybe you can suggest specifics or other avenues to explore.
First three days: staying in London. From my visit last summer I have a long list of places to go and things to see. For sure: the Globe Theater, the Inns of Court, Sir John Soanes' Museum, Dennis Severs' House (if it's open), maybe a couple of historic pubs... We'll be busy.
Third day we're making a day trip out to Cambridge to see a nearby historic house that is also the setting of some of the childrens' favorite books:
Fourth day we rent a car and head out of town. We'll be going to the little Oxfordshire village of Uffington, near the famous chalk horse, as it's supposedly the ancestral home of my family. But as they emigrated in the 1680s (Quakers) I don't think we'll run into anyone who remembers them. We may stay in that area overnight, depending on how interesting it is.
The original plan was to go to the Cotswolds, but we'd be there on a weekend, and they are sounding a lot like London's Hamptons. Instead I am thinking of the Wye Valley in Wales for a couple of days. Among other things there are some nice looking hostels there, and I know we'd all get a kick out of Hay-on-Wye's bookshops.
Next, for a couple of days, we hope to arrange a short term rental of a narrowboat on the Llangollen canal in northern Wales. Failing that we'll at least do a day trip and stay in the area; there are castles nearby and the lovely-looking town of Chester.
From there we'll go up to the Lake District, where we've arranged to stay on a farm in Seatoller. We plan to get in some good walking including the peaks of Catbells and Helvyllen & Striding Edge. (Great, inspiring pictures at www.stridingedge.net.) We'll be in the Lake District area for four days. Possible side trips are to Carlisle for the railway to Settle, or Hadrian's Wall. Or we may do a day of exploring Hadrian's wall as we head for:
Southern Scotland. This is a little up in the air. We are thinking of staying in Stirling, or possibly Melrose, either of which would be interesting in its own right, and allow day trips by train to Edinburgh, which will be in full Festival. This will be just about three days.
Then we head back south with a stop in Durham. York is another possibility, but looks very busy and touristy. For certain we'll be stopping in the Dales, and we think we'll do two pieces of the 'Coast to Coast' route, Reeth to Richmond, where we'll stay, and maybe the eastern end at Robin Hood Bay.
Then back to London on a Friday, where we'll have the weekend to catch things like the Borough Market, the madness of Camden, the Spitalfields Market on Sunday, and perhaps capping it off with an evening at Hampstead Heath.
Then we have a Monday free, for anything we feel we've missed in London, or maybe a day trip out if we just have to see the stones at Avebury.
I'd welcome any feedback from you knowledgeable travellers!
Regards,
Alan Chicago ps: I'd be happy to advise anyone who's coming this way!
What a fantastic trip! It sounds as if you have it very well worked out and hardly need any comments from us. However, here are a few thoughts.
The YHA is a great institution. It's a long time since we hostelled, however. In our day you had to do a bit of housework (sweeping or whatever); I wonder whether they still do that!
The Soane Museum is great. I've never managed to get to Dennis Severs' house. If that's not open, how about the Linley Sambourne house in Kensington? It's a Victorian photographer's home, preserved very much as it was. Or, what about one of London's more mainstream art galleries? The Courtauld Institute is close to the Soane Museum and is particularly noted for French Impressionists.
While you're in Cambridgeshire will you find time to see Cambridge at all? King's chapel must be one of the sights of Britain, if not the world.
After Uffington you could consider the Kennet & Avon canal. If the Llangollen canal is not an option this might be a suitable alternative. There are impressive viaducts in the section between Bradford-on-Avon and Bath, and both those places are well worth visiting.
I'm not sure that you particularly need to avoid the Cotswolds at the weekend. They are surely much larger than the Hamptons. However, other Slow Travellers doubtless know the Cotswolds from a tourist perspective much better than I do.
The Wye valley has several fine medieval castles (notably Goodrich) and one of Britain's prettiest abbey ruins at Tintern.
I don't know whether you're interested in gardens but your route will take you very close to Levens Hall just before you get to the Lake District. This is one of England's most enjoyable gardens.
Seatoller is right in one of the best bits of the Lakes, but maybe you should think twice about going to Helvellyn from there. Certainly Striding Edge is memorable but it's a few miles drive from Seatoller and any driving in the Lakes can be tedious. If you stick to the wonderful walking in and around Borrowdale you'll be able to enjoy several days without driving. Don't forget that walking in the valley can be as enjoyable as sweating to the hilltops.
I notice that your itinerary doesn't include the coast at all, which is a shame since clifftop walking in places like South-West England (Dorset, Devon and Cornwall) and Pembrokeshire is one of the greatest pleasures Britain has to offer and the Scottish Highlands and Islands are the most special part of Scotland. However, all these places are out on a limb, so I don't know what to suggest.
I hope these thoughts help.
Thanks for your offer of advice on the Chicago area. I'll remember this when we're next planning to visit the Mid-West.
Hugh
Posts: 564 | Location: West Sussex, England | Registered: 08 February 2007
I originally come from the Stirling area and it is the best compromise. It is known as the gateway to the highlands because south of Stirling is the south of Scotland and to the north is the highlands.
The Castle in Stirling is excellent and has an incredible view. It is the ideal place to command the valley from. The Wallace Monument is also worth a look - you can tell he was a big man, they have his sword in the monument and its nearly 6 foot long.
I would take a day in Stirling, buy stuff for a picnic and then get a bus to one of the Ochil Hills villages (Menstrie or Alva) then go a walk up the hill. The hills there are quite small but from the top you get a beautiful view.
If you follow the stream up from Menstrie into the hills you can find pools big enough to swim in.
If you are eating out in Stirling I would try Hermans or the TollBooth.
Edinburgh at festival time is wonderful but go by train as you wont find anywhere closer to park than Stirling.
Hello, I think you have the makings of a great trip but I am concerned that it seems a little ambitious. 3 weeks is a long time but not if you spend a great deal of it travelling. You will need to build in plenty of "down time" for your children. I hope you will be spending a week in your vacation rental in the Lake District which will then give you the opportunity to get to know somewhere a little bit better than "zoom travel" does.
Certainly take out the Cotswolds from your itinerary as you are not short of alternatives, but be assured that area is not always teeming with tourists you just need to know where to go. We visited the White Horse of Uffington in March. It is best viewed from a helicopter unfortunately but the surrounding countryside is magnificent although Uffington itself is tiny. York is magnificent and will be more appealing to your children than Durham and yes it does get high numbers of visitors but I recommend a week in that city getting to know it and it's surrounding Moors and Dales. Durham is worthy of a visit don't get me wrong but I am loooking for ways to make your trip more manageable! This is Slow Travel after all Wendy
Posts: 2747 | Location: Lightwater Surrey U K | Registered: 30 March 2003
On your way from Wales to Chester try to fit in a visit to Ludlow, Shropshire, it's a Slow food capital of England, with excellent restaurants such as Claude Bosi's Hibiscus.
Your trip sounds amazingly well organised! The Wye valley is beautiful, especially Hay.The drive from there up to Chester is one of the nicest and least visited in England, coming up through the border counties through Herefordshire. It is worth stopping to see the Mappa Mundi and chained Library in Hereford Cathedral. The mappa mundi is one of the worlds oldest maps and dated circa 1300.:Herford Cathedral . Then on through beautiful Shropshire, especially, I agree, Ludlow or Bridgenorth, into rural south Cheshire and to Chester. The countryside is magical, lush hills, tiny quiet villages a stones throw from the main road, stark moorland and everywhere hedgerows, birds and few tourists. This is the land of Mary Webb and 'The Shropshire Lad'. I live in Chester and have just posted some travel notes, now waiting for the unenviable task of formatting my photos!
It is possible to walk across the Llangollen viaduct on a day trip from Chester, or take a barge from a company such as this:Canal boats.
The YMCA in Chester is just outside the centre, in Hough Green. Don't even think about staying in any other hostel there! We have stayed in loads of hostels in the Lakes and Yorkshire Dales and think that they are great, excellent value for money.
Hope that this is of some interest
Julie
Posts: 145 | Location: chester uk | Registered: 21 May 2005
Green Knowe! Your kids are going to love visiting the real house, it is *exactly* like it is in the books down to the little mouse and the initials carved in the tree. When I visited I was really surprised I was the only person there who had read the books. There was a Japanese couple who were there to see L.M. Boston's quilts as apparently she is quite famous for them. And another couple was there to see the garden which is small and lovely. Have your kids read Susan Cooper's Dark is Rising series? Also Susan Cooper's "King of Shadows" is good if you are planning on visiting the Globe.
Oh and if your kids are Harry Potter fans you have to go up to King's Cross Station and have your Kodak moment at Platform 9-3/4. They have a luggage cart halfway through the brick wall under the sign.
I've stayed in a lot of youth hostels in England and I think some of them could be a very good place for your family to stay. I'll recommend one but it isn't exactly in the middle of any of your planned visits. It is however, in an area with lots of things to see and not out of the way of some of your planned stops.
There were a lot of families staying at Hartington Hall when I was there and they have a number of family rooms. We had our own apartment complete with kitchen and bathroom. Nearby are Chatsworth, Hardwick Hall, Haddon Hall, and many other houses and castles.
Thank you all for the very thoughtful replies. I wish I'd found this site a few months ago and asked your advice. As you can perhaps tell I am a dogged researcher and planner, and I have pored through guidebooks as well as asking the expertise of the walkers on the Ramblers group site. Very helpful they were too, though someone from the North kept suggesting we should go to Scotland and 'bag some munros,' evidently slang for something, perhaps drugs.*
Actually some of the Ramblers suggested staying in hostels, which I recall, somewhat fondly, from my youth. But English hostels are evidently a very different thing from the ones I remember from my backpacking days. (And I don't think housework is required these days, which is a pity as it could be character-building for the kids.)
Hostels may well be the salvation of our budget, such as it is. I do think we'll be having a lot of picnics rather than fine dining, which suits us fine.
The YHA site is actually inspiring, some of the hostels look to warrant a special trip in themselves. Hartington Hall had been on our itinerary, then off, and I think we may adjust the route in order to stay there. Our 13 year old read an article about it in her Muse magazine, apparently there are hidden passages or compartments?
There are two hostels on the N Cornish Coast, Tintagel and Boscastel Harbor, which look very intriguing, but visiting that area would get us into two days of 200+ mile driving, which we want to avoid. I agree about missing out on coast walking, and perhaps there's a way to fit that in somewhere.
I really appreciate the specific suggestions, such as the Kennett/Avon canal as an alternative to Llangollen; so far I haven't found a single-day rental on the latter. And going through Wales, up through Shropshire, looks like a good use of time. I think we can stay in the Wye Valley or the Chirck/Llangollen area, but perhaps not both, if we're also going to Hartington Hall, which is in the Peak District.
By the way, Julie, did you mean the yha hostel in Chester? Perhaps that is another option for an overnight at least.
Also, glad for the confirmation of Stirling as a good base for southern Scotland. There appears to be a good hostel there as well.
I have been corresponding with Diana Boston about visiting Green Knowe for some time; she has been very gracious. The kids and I found a satellite picture of Hemingford Grey village and the manor house from Google maps. The hedges are very distinctive. We will do that as a day trip by train out from London, and I think we'll visit the house in the morning then spend the afternoon in Cambridge.
When I was in London last summer I made sure to get pictures of Platform 9 3/4 at Kings Cross. Station management has been very obliging about setting it up. While I was there photographing it, groups of people (not always kids!) kept showing up to see it, much to the bemusement of the porters.
Thanks again, and by all means I welcome your suggestions, and am making use of them!
Alan
*re: 'bagging Munros' as possible drug slang...it's a joke! I really shouldn't be so facetious with people I don't know but in light of the April Fools' thread here I hope to be taken in the spirit intended.
There are some great YHA properties in the lAKES,in very scenic spots.
We rented a canal boat from Maestermyn cruisers on the Shropshire/Wales border(this was the company Harrison Ford and Calista Flockhart used to tour with.
Chatsworth in Derbyshire is wonderful as is Treak cliff cavern and the Blue John mine. Kids love these last two for their stalagmite formations.
Have a great trip...sounds like you may need a holiday afterwards though
BTW Georgia, Hibiscus is no more in Ludlow, it closed in April and hasd gone to London!!It is still a great place to visit and still has great dining,at Mr Underwoods for example.
Posts: 1222 | Location: UK | Registered: 12 June 2005
This may stretch your mileage a little far, but you could continue from Chester along the North Wales coast to Conwy,great castle, walk the coastal path around the Great Orme at Llandudno,hike up Snowdon, or send the kids up on foot and catch the train, then back to Liverpool for the Beatles exhibition in Albert Dock.
Until I read this thread I didnt realise how little I know my own back yard!
Julie
Posts: 145 | Location: chester uk | Registered: 21 May 2005
I backpacked around Europe last year, and I would avoid YHA hostels like the plague whenever possible.
They are, in general, inconveniently located, institutional, full of ridiculous rules (like curfews and lockouts) and not competitively priced. Whenever possible, see if there is an independent hostel in the places you are going.
They are, in general, inconveniently located, institutional, full of ridiculous rules (like curfews and lockouts) and not competitively priced. Whenever possible, see if there is an independent hostel in the places you are going.
One of the things we really liked about YHA hostels was that when we took our family into them, there were curfews and lockouts so we could sleep at night. Now 'closing time' is a thing of the past, I can't think of anything more likely to make me foam at the mouth than being woken up constantly by people behaving as loudly as I did at that age!
(Sooo old) Julie
Blacksail YHA in the Lakes is the most inconveniently placed in th world - not even a road within miles - but it is truly the best one.
Posts: 145 | Location: chester uk | Registered: 21 May 2005
As another poster said its a shame to miss the seaside in England. Brighton is only about on hour train ride away from London and well worth a visit as well as Dorset, Lyme Regis, Charmouth area..I guess you can't do it all but a visit to England and not go to the seaside, especially with children, is well a shame!
Posts: 1375 | Location: Seattle - next is Isla Mujeres,MX in December, then its Paris in March, then hopefully England! | Registered: 02 May 2005
If you enjoy a different slant on history, I'd recommend the Docklands Museum. It has some wonderful hands-on displays of the history & development of the Thames & London. We really enjoyed it without children, but I think an 11 year old boy would be fascinated.
Enjoy!
Posts: 459 | Location: Adelaide, South Australia | Registered: 08 May 2005
Thanks again for all the suggestions and thoughtful replies. I have to assume that Saint Bambi's advice reflects a very particular experience, since everything I've heard and read here and elsewhere indicates that yha hostels will be just fine for accomodation. I think Julie's right that the curfew doesn't seem so onerous when you're a parent yourself.
Everyone I've been in touch with at hostels in England, Wales, and Scotland has been helpful and friendly via email, actually more so than b&B and farmstay places, though it's possible this is just generational. One staffer assured me that though her hostel (Stow on the Wold) is closed mid-day "it's because of staffing, not sheer bloody-mindedness!"
I think we're going to go a bit out of our way just to stay at Hartington Hall, though it was actually HarVington Hall that my daughter had read about. (It has 'priest holes' where the Catholic family could hide their clergy during the Elizabethan era.)
***
As for our interests, among the five of us there are many, but they overlap a lot. Our children have a half-English imaginary landscape, having grown up on Harry Potter, the Lord of the Rings, the Green Knowe books (but not Narnia, too 'wet'), and others by Joan Aiken and Leon Garfield, and lots of English humor on television, most especially Wallace and Gromit and the Fry & Laurie version of Jeeves and Wooster.
16 year old daughter will be coming direct from being a junior camp counselor in the Appalachians. She is intently interested in walking, and probably is the most enthusiastic about tackling Helvyllen and other peaks in the Lake District.
13 year old daughter is very theatrical (you can expect to see her in the 2020 cast of 'Saturday Night Live') and would probably go to the Globe Theater every day. We may go to Stratford on Avon for her sake though it looks a bit 'done.'
11 year old son is quite interested in military history, which computer games have bolstered. He wants to see Appsley House (Wellington's), and the underground WW2 Cabinet War Rooms. Also, of course, every single castle, intact or ruined! When we talked about staying in Stirling he immediately asked about the William Wallace connection. He's very fond of 'Double Gloucester' cheese.
My wife and I share in all these interests besides the usual more grownup pursuits like gardening, art, and good food. And we all have a family interest in at least touching base on the family Quaker heritage, stopping in Uffington and perhaps at Swarthmoor House, in honor of my late father.
I suppose an ideal outing for us would be a fairly strenous walk through beautiful surroundings, a ruined castle or other historic find for the boy to race around on, and an evening visit to a nice pub where there is good local ale and simple but good food (especially cheese!), interesting company and perhaps some music. And Stephen Fry happens to come in and sits down for a chat!
Sorry for the long post! I'm still gathering information, as the rest of the family has left the planning up to me. I have definitely added things to the itinerary...like the garden at Levens Hall...just from suggestions here. And again, I appreciate the help a great deal.
By the way, here's something I can pass on to the group: last summer I found (through tripadvisor.com) quite a good budget hotel in London. It's called the Rhodes Hotel, it's near Paddington Station, it's neat as a pin, and very reasonably priced. Most rooms are en-suite, singles start at just £60, and there are family rooms, which we'll be using this summer. The Paddington location is convenient if not glamorous or charming.
If you are in Scotland between 5th-27th August then take your younger daughter to the Edinburgh Festival - see the thread on this section. She will love it - a day in Edinburgh and she could see half a dozen shows.
Stirling and its environs was the scene of many battles - Bannockburn (home team lost) and the Battle of Stirling Bridge (home team won by landslide). The castle itself has a commanding view of the area and nothing to do with William Wallace, however the Wallace Monument on the outskirts of Stirling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallace_Monument
It is quite a climb to the top and the parapet only comes to your waist - so its a no go for vertigo sufferers.
Walk up the Dollar Glen (beautiful walk about 30 minutes) to Castle Campbell. For childish enjoyment you could tell the kids your going to the castles alternate name The Castle of Gloom (don't know why its called that). Then walk back to Dollar for a meal and a drink in one of the local pubs. Your two daughters are old enough to be allowed half a shandy in pubs (that's half a pint of lager or beer with lemonade). Remember cider in the UK is an alcoholic drink!
You'll pass very near Castlerigg Stone Circle when driving between Helvellyn and Seatoller and it's well worth a short detour. It's older than Stonehenge and its setting is very atmospheric ... on a windy hilltop with the fells all around; if you get a mixture of sunshine and showers it can feel truly magical.
Posts: 564 | Location: West Sussex, England | Registered: 08 February 2007
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