I have most meals and the itinerary planned, but I need a bit of help. This will be the last big trip before the baby is born. My wife will be 6 months pregnant at the time of the trip. We are foodies and usually plan our trips around restaurants as you will see from the itinerary. Here is the general game plan so far, but it is open to change:

Saturday: Early arrival. Heading to Renaissance Chancery Court near Holborn tube to drop bags and then on to Borough Market for lunch. I know it will be crazy by the time we get there, but the market looks too good to pass up. Lines will be long so what should not be missed?

After lunch we plan on seeing Tower of London. Supper at Fryer’s Delight. Which fish is the *best* for fish and chips?

Sunday: Doing the Buckingham Palace and Changing of the Guards. Need a lunch recommendation in the area.

Plan on seeing Big Ben after lunch. Afternoon tea at the Wolseley.

Shopping and snacks at Fortnum and Mason for later in the evening. Any ideas of the best snacks to go?

Monday: Trying to get discounted tickets for Chicago in Leicester Square. Was thinking Chinatown for lunch. Any suggestions?

Need an afternoon itinerary suggestion.

Pre-theatre supper at J Sheekey. What are the standout dishes here? On to Chicago.

Tuesday: British museum in the morning then off to Gordon Ramsay’s Maze for lunch.

St Paul's Cathedral in the afternoon.

My wife has fond memories of Wagamama’s and I love yakisoba so we plan on that for supper. What else stands out here?

Wednesday: Natural History museum in the morning and then off to Bombay Brasserie for lunch. Is the weekly buffet as good as the weekend, or should be be ordering off the menu?

Shopping at Harrods and the like in the afternoon. Need an interesting supper spot, but not necessarily around Harrods.

Thursday: Tate Modern in the morning. Lunch spot nearby?

Need itinerary plans for the afternoon. Have zero plans for supper. Any ideas?

Friday: Back to Canada early.

I am looking for breakfast suggestions near the Holborn tube. I would like at least one proper English breakfast, but the rest can be quick things to go.

One lunch spot needed near Buckingham Palace, one Chinatown lunch and one lunch near Tate Modern.

Two supper spots and we are open to almost anywhere the metro can take us.

I like the look of Bleeding Heart for a supper. Is that place worth it? I would like to have a meal in a gastropub like Anchor and Hope. We really like Vietnamese. Any suggestions there? Price is important, but I am willing to spend for a great meal. Ideally, I would like entrees to fall around 20 pounds or less.

Thanks for the help.

The best fish is debatable, most English people would say cod and most Scots haddock.

If you want to try something a bit different Pollock is nice as is Rock Salmon.

Mainly I would suggest anything that has to be cooked while you are there.

Gosh it's surprisingly hard to think of suggestions when you live in a place. I'll have to revisit this when I have a bit more time, but my first thought is to say that there is a profusion of Vietnamese restaurants in the area around Spitalfields/Hoxton which runs north from Liverpool Street Station.

Ordinarily I would not recommend the Chinese food in London to any North American, because the chinese food I've had in New York and Toronto is better, but I don't know how you are fixed for Chinese food in New Brunswick.

I like your gastropub idea, but I can't think of any ones that are central off hand. There's the Eagle in Farringdon Road. It was meant to be the original but I've never been and I'm not sure if it's still considered to be in the leading pack. Maybe one of the other Londoners can come up with something.

I am almost tempted to suggest you have fish and chips in my "local" except that it's a bit off the beaten path in north London and not directly on a tube line. We had fish and chips there a month or so ago and I think it was the best I have ever, ever had. Not particularly cheap either but individually cooked and the fish was out of this world. And they had an amazing array of fish to choose from which in my experience is a bit unusual for a fish and chip place.

I'll post again when I've got a bit more time if I can think of any good suggestions.

I would just like to add to beebee's post that the profusion of Vietnamese restaurants I believe she's talking about is right next to the Geffrye Museum, which is on many people's lists.

Or there is A profusion there that may be of use to you or other visitors. (It would probably be a hike from the Tube for madame now though, like 15-20 minutes and I'm a fast walker, so take the bus.)

I like it when little bits come together. It pleases me.

The Tate bit will be no problem. Not only are the Tate cafe and restaurant good, with lovely views, the south bank has dozens of restaurants that are an easy walk even for a tired pregnant lady. Including another Wagamama. Or cross the footbridge to the area around St. Paul's, if you know of something that appeals there.

I don't eat in restaurants much. But my rule in choosing when I have no other information?
Never pick an empty restaurant. Pick the full one, (preferably full of locals), even if you have to wait. It's full for a reason.

Have a wonderful trip!

Forgot to add chownhound has a London/Ireland board that may help with specific dishes.

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Originally posted by beebee:
Ordinarily I would not recommend the Chinese food in London to any North American, because the chinese food I've had in New York and Toronto is better, but I don't know how you are fixed for Chinese food in New Brunswick.

The Chinese food in London is different from that in North America because it's mainly Cantonese - it is less sweet and more delicate than the rather gloopy textures encountered in Chinese food in San Francisco and New York. I've eaten Chinese food in all three cities and prefer London (though Vancouver, BC, is another story).

J Sheekey is one of the best restaurants in London, no argument. Good food, good service but on the expensive side even for London.

Two restaurants worth checking out are Arbutus (but do book well in advance, it's become too well-known), if you can't get in try its sister restaurant Wild Honey.

A very unusual restaurant, if only for the quirky view, is the one in the National Portrait Gallery.

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Originally posted by Robert D:
The Chinese food in London is different from that in North America because it's mainly Cantonese - it is less sweet and more delicate than the rather gloopy textures encountered in Chinese food in San Francisco and New York. I've eaten Chinese food in all three cities and prefer London (though Vancouver, BC, is another story).

Well it is literally decades since I last had a chinese meal in New York so I don't really remember specifics and I've probably had most of my exposure to chinese food in Toronto which has a very large china town. I'm not sure whether you would have thought that gloopy and sugery. I didn't find it so. I just found the Cantonese food here too bland for my liking and missed the availability of Sechuan restaurants. By contrast, I found the chinese restaurants in Manchester to be more varied and interesting than London. We are hopefully going to China in 2008 so I hope to have my palate well "educated" and then I'll come back and do the rounds.

I would take the Chinese food in any of those cities over what we have in Moncton, New Brunswick. Sweet and Sour Chick Balls should not count as Chinese food! I miss anything that is remotely authentic.

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it is less sweet and more delicate than the rather gloopy textures encountered in Chinese food in San Francisco and New York.

Hmm! That's hardly a description, Robert, I would apply to any good Chinese food I've eaten in the US in recent years. (Try Bo Ling's in Kansas City, voted one of the 100 best Chinese restaurants in the US, out of over 40,000.) Where were you and when? Even here in the NC mountains there is a rather decent Chinese restaurant, and its eponymous name identifies the type of food it serves: Hunan. Hardly "goopy" at all - more like spicy and tasty!

Ann

Beebee, your reply caught my eye

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I am almost tempted to suggest you have fish and chips in my "local" except that it's a bit off the beaten path in north London and not directly on a tube line. We had fish and chips there a month or so ago and I think it was the best I have ever, ever had. Not particularly cheap either but individually cooked and the fish was out of this world. And they had an amazing array of fish to choose from which in my experience is a bit unusual for a fish and chip place.

Can you please say where this fish and chippery is? We are hanging out for good fish and chips, as we are a bit spoilt in Melbourne as the fish is different to London and is always cooked to order. We are currently living in North London and will travel for a good fish and chip!

JonH, I feel exhausted reading your itinery, is your wife going to manage? Remember to block in lots of rests too, London is exhausting just coping with the crowds, and the Borough Market is very crazy, I head there most weeks for shopping. Last week was so busy on the Friday, that by lunch time I gave up as I couldn't get near the stalls to buy anything anyway, and as for eating, the queues were too long. I hope you can find somewhere for lunch though as there are some lovely places around there. I took my daughter to the Shipply (?) Tea Room as it looks so pretty and was hugely disappointed to pay so much for the smallest, stalest little scone and TEABAG tea!!! A teabag in the pot in a tea room, now that's just not the done thing!
Have a great time and enjoy the last child free holiday!!!

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Originally posted by RobynAP:
Can you please say where this fish and chippery is? We are hanging out for good fish and chips, as we are a bit spoilt in Melbourne as the fish is different to London and is always cooked to order. We are currently living in North London and will travel for a good fish and chip!

Hi there, I didn't mention the name because I couldn't remember it but I've googled a bit and I think it may be called The Sea Cow. I didn't realise until I started looking that it is part of a chain and the other restaurants seems to be in South London. Unfortunately, that site doesn't look as if it's been updated because the address in North London isn't included. I can tell you how to get there though. It's on Stoke Newington Church Street almost directly across from the Fire Station (near the junction with Kersley Road). Interestingly the Sea Cow seems to be based on the owners experiences in Australia (but sadly Sydney rather than Melbourne so it may not pass muster )

I'm not sure how to advise you to get there by public transport. I think it's a bit fiddly from Hampstead but it's not too bad if you drive. Let us know if you're coming over to "Stokie" and we'll have a mini GTG.

P.S. Just found this review that does give the address.

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Sunday: Doing the Buckingham Palace and Changing of the Guards. Need a lunch recommendation in the area.

Inn the Park, right within St James Park, near the Horseguards. On a Sunday, I would book.

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Thursday: Tate Modern in the morning. Lunch spot nearby?

The museum itself has a highly regarded restaurant, but be sure to book.

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I like the look of Bleeding Heart for a supper. Is it worth it?

The food is sort of Frenchified pub grub, and I wasn't impressed. The real fun, I think, is its storied location, and that's more about knowing the history than there being anything to see. If your hotel is near there, however, it's probably one of the easier choices, and worth it for convenience. Try eating in the tavern rather than the formal restaurant.

In general, I've been happier eating in ethnic restaurants in London (still). It may be that no matter how hard I try, I cannot warm up to British cooking, but the last time I was in London I most enjoyed Thai food and tapas, with the occasional foray into Turkish, Brazilian and Cuban. I think both Italian and Indian have slipped a notch, unless you pay the premium prices.

If you want gastropub food, check out recent issues of Time Out or some other food guides to see who hasn't slipped.

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The Chinese food in London is different from that in North America because it's mainly Cantonese

It is hard to parse this sentence, but most Chinese food in the US is Cantonese. The tendency to overdue the sugar is strange, however.

I also believe Chinese food in Chinatown is better in NYC than anything I experienced in London, but I've not eaten at lot of chinese food in London.

Funnily, I would have thought Hong Kong dishes would be the norm in London.

quote:

It is hard to parse this sentence,

I don't think it's hard if you remember that Robert is writing in British English (as is appropriate in this forum ). As has, I'm sure, been remarked upon in that 'differences' thread, we tend to say 'different from' where you might say 'different than'.

Jonathan

My problem was not the 'from' and the 'than.' My problem was being certain which location he was referring to as having mainly Cantonese food -- since Chinese food in the US is mainly Cantonese. I allowed for the possibility I was misreading his sentence.

Two empires separated only by a common language, eh?

Inn the Park has a fantastic setting but this link doesn't give it a great review. I seem to recall that the place was closed a few weeks ago because food inspectors found the kitchen to be unacceptable. I can't quite remember what was wrong - have a feeling it might have been infested with vermin - and I'm not sure if it has re-opened since so double check before planning your day around it.

quote:

Originally posted by italiasoon:
It may be that no matter how hard I try, I cannot warm up to British cooking, but the last time I was in London I most enjoyed Thai food and tapas, with the occasional foray into Turkish, Brazilian and Cuban. I think both Italian and Indian have slipped a notch, unless you pay the premium prices.

I'd be interested to hear where you can even find British cooking!

As for eating well at lower than premium prices, I would suggest that you need to venture a bit out of the centre. I almost never eat in town unless I'm out with a gang of friends when the food is not really the focus. I wouldn't say that either Italian or Indian food has slipped but you probably need to go into the neighbourhoods to find good food at sensible prices. Time Out has a good little publication called Cheap Eats in London that gives recommendations for eateries all over London and although there is a section on central London, this is swamped by the number of places a bit further out.

Hi Jon,

Your trip sounds great, though I'd encourage you to consider a little more spontaniety depending on the weather, how your wife is feeling, and whatever you discover once you are there. London is fabulous and hopefully you'll be back again. (We've enjoyed London with a young daughter several times too...)

We stayed at the Renaissance Chancery Court a couple of years ago and it's a fabulous hotel. We stayed there on Marriott points and felt that the breakfast in the hotel was way too expensive. My husband went out a couple of mornings and brought something back. If you turn left out of the hotel, there is a place to buy sandwiches and breads-- I think a Pret a Manger. Another day we turned right (towards St. Paul's) and found a little place for a full English breakfast a few blocks down High Holborn. (This list may give you some other ideas.)

If you want to have something better planned, you might consider e-mailing the hotel and asking the concierge to suggest an inexpensive local place for breakfast. The concierge there can also help with dinner recommendations and reservations. I've found that the concierge desks at the Marriott 5 star hotels are extremely helpful and responsive.

Enjoy your trip!

Kathy

beebee,

One encounters plenty of traditional british fare in London! You note that I recommended Inn the Park, because I'm not prejudiced against British fare (it just doesn't suit my tastebuds) and Inn the Park uses quality ingredients and the food is freshly cooked. I've never found the user review site you linked to useful. (Neither is Zagat's in my experience.) I think Time Out is the best -- but I don't know how they review Inn the Park.

My remark about eating well and "premium prices" referred solely Indian and Italian. I ate very well in the centre -- using Time Out -- at reasonable prices, but not Indian or Italian food, which was disappointing. I think the problem with Italian and Indian is that they have become ubitquitous in London over the years, and so the possibilities for going wrong are sort of endless.

I can well understand that you don't eat out a lot in London (and I didn't when I lived there, as I don't much in Italy, where I live now). But most tourists are sort of doomed to eat out many times a day, and in the historic centre of wherever they are. London, with its high prices, is a challenge. Time Out's Cheap Eats is well-known and a godsend.

Italiasoon, my comment wasn’t meant to be taken too seriously. It wasn’t clear to me what you were referring to as “british” cuisine.

To me proper british cuisine consists of dishes like meat and game pies, rabbit stewed in cider, black pudding, kippers, tripe, jellied eels, cockles, haggis (in Scotland), Yorkshire pudding and roast beef etc. All very filling and when done nicely can be very impressive. But apart from Yorkshire pudding and roast beef which you can get in a lot of restaurants, traditional british cooking has been pushed to the margins. People don’t necessarily want to eat that sort of food when they go out for an evening now a days. Mostly what passes for british cuisine (i.e. cottage or shepherd’s pie, ploughman’s lunch, welsh rarebit etc. - not forgetting the great British breakfast, otherwise lovingly referred to as a "heart attack on a plate") you’ll find in pubs along with servings of lasagne (not a patch on anything found in Italy) and curry dishes (again not particularly authentic). It’s perfectly acceptable comfort food in my book but I wouldn’t want people to think that british cuisine was unimpressive based on that kind of sample.

In re-reading your post however, it may be that you were making a different point, namely that you preferred the food in restaurants serving ethnic or "foreign" food rather than those restaurants that don't. I guess I just wouldn't characterise those restaurants as necessarily serving British cuisine.

I’m sure you are right that tourists need to eat out all or most of the time, but this is a problem in every city one visits. The problem in London is the expense. My point was that one can eat very well at slightly lower prices if one is prepared to venture a bit outside the centre and that the Cheap Eats book gives a very good selection to choose from. I would recommend any foodie (Jon has said he’s a foodie) on a budget to search a bit further out of the centre to find good food at lower prices. My divergence from your opinion is that I think that there is still great Indian and Italian food to be had at non premium prices, but you may have to go further afield than the centre of London to find them.