The Floriade is in Haarlemmerthal (sp) this year and I did a Mapquest route for it. I think we need to stop somewhere near Baden Baden or Mannhein, maybe sooner. I don't want to stop in Switzerland. I discovered Mannhein is a giant US Army base, so that doesn't sound too appealing. Does anybody have an idea of someplace not far off the route (indicated by those places) that would be cheap but appealing?

I can not help with a suggestion on the route but I am curious about Floriade. When are you going? In the spring? I have not been to it but I know about the show. We are planning a trip to the Hampton Court Flower Show in UK in early July. If you are going in Spring, I would love to hear about the show. It is so easy to get between the Netherlands and England that we might consider tagging Floriade on.

If you are going in the spring (late April), Keukenhoff is wonderful. Acres and Acres of spring bulbs sponsered by the major bulb growers in the Netherlands. It is usually open from late March through mid-May.

Marta

What is the Floriade? I thought someone had just mispelled Florida! I don't have my maps with me - but is Strasborg on that route? A friend of mine loves that town.

We have friends in southern Germany - Balingen - and go there on some of our trips. It is a cute small town and there are nice towns in the hills of that area. If that is near your route, I could email my friend and ask her which town would be nicest. There are some towns just south of Balingen that are very beautiful - those old timber frame houses.

Why not Switzerland?

The Floriade is in a different place each time. Here is an entry website: http://www.netherlands-embassy.org/c_agrfloriade.html
I don't like Switzerland. I think it's great to take a train through it, but that's all.

Judith:

If you were interested in stopping a bit sooner than Mannheim, you could stop in Freiburg or at some little spa place in the Black Forest....... IMO, one of the nicer parts of Germany.

Or here's another idea, although it may be a bit off of the track -- stopping in Alsace -- in Strasbourg or Colmar or one of the beautiful little Alsatian towns.

Seeking advice on which would be a better choice to spend a day, Floriade or Keukenhof. Going in late April. grazie

The Sunday NY Times travel section of March 11 mentioned Floriade 2002 in "What's Doing in Amsterdam." They gave a website
www.floriade.com

and also some good info about other things going on in Amsterdam over the next few months.

Thanks Maureen. To you and any other experienced Holland travellers out there, I'm interested in making two independent day trips (by public transport) out of Amsterdam. Ideally I'd like to take a train somewhere, rent a bicycle and tour the bulbfields. The other trip would be to a town or city. Also, I MUST see at least one windmill before I get back on the plane LOL. Out of all the choices - Gouda, Edam, Alkmaar, the Hague, Delft, etc etc - I'm having trouble deciding. All opinions appreciated!

Try starting another thread in this forum with Holland in the title to catch Marta's eye. She lived in Holland for sevaral months. We have her trip report of the experience:
http://www.slowtrav.com/trip_reports/1996_spring_marta.htm

Yep, I have been watching this thread and mulling over my answers. First, it just happens that I will also be in Holland on business end of April/begining of May. I will only have three days to travel and I've been trying to make similar decisions.

First Keukenoff vs Floriade: This is tough because I haven't been to Floriade. I've checked out both the web site and saw the NYT article. I guess I'm leaning towards Floriade only because it only happens every 10 years. Keukenoff is a wonderful place with lots of gorgeous flowers. It is 70 acres of a display garden along with some greenhouses. It can get crowded on sunny weekends. But I enjoyed it a lot.

Floriade sounds similar to a world fair/Epcot with international countries have displays. It seems a little commercial to me so that's why I've been leaning away from it. But it seems like everyone has tours that include Floriade so I may go.

It is very easy to tour around holland by bike. You can rent at most train stations. Although there were a few weekends when the bikes were gone early. The information centers VVV have a lot of information on biking routes. If you are short of time, do think about doing a 1/2 day tour with a company. I took a tour of Amsterdam with the Yellow Bike Company and found it really good. They provide all the equipment and even rain gear. The Yellow Bike Company web site seems to only be in Dutch. The British flag has no link. But here is another one that does include a half day trip in the tulip fields from Amsterdam Let's Go Bike Tours

Another good bike ride is from Leiden to Den Haag. It goes through the dunes part of the way and also to Wassenwar. Here is a another web site that does custom tours but includes lots of great information on biking areas and biking safety in Holland. If you had time, a trip to the Hoge Veluwe is great. It is very different from the typical image of Holland.

You won't have any trouble finding a windmill. There are lots. There is a working windmill in Leiden (museum de valk) that is also a museum. It is in the center of the town. A short distance away is also another different style windmill which is near where Rembrant lived. Here's a short guide to Leiden . The best windmills are at Kinderdijk but that is not real easy to get to without a car or by tour.

I've been to Haarlem, Den Haag and Delft. All are good day trips. Haarlem has a wonderful grand square, a lovely church with a huge organ that was played by Mozart, and several museums. Delft has a great square and the pottery factories. Den Haag (The Hague) is more of a capital city and spread out compared with the other cities you are interested in. I haven't been to the more tourist/Dutch costumed cities like Edam, Gouda. I might lean towards Haarlem. It's easy to get to from Amsterdam, it is near the tulip fields and has a great square and museum.

I will be working in Den Haag. I plan to go to the Van Gogh-Gauguin exhibit at the Van Gogh Museum. This is the exhibit that was in Chicago last year. I also plan on doing some serious beer tasting . Note: one of the breweries is in a Windmill!

Marta

Marta, thanks for your incredibly helpful information! I'll definitely look into a bicycle tour (just checked the Yellow Bike co's English link and it's working now). After giving it more thought, I'm not sure Floriade would hold great interest for me. Perhaps a bike ride thru the tulips is exactly what I'm looking for instead! Especially since this is a "fasttrav" and my time is extremely limited. I'm going to take your advice and plan on Haarlem. And what a great concept, beer AND a windmill together... I can kill two birds with one stone

I spent a few days in Gouda a couple of years ago, while visiting a friend, and enjoyed it. It's a small, attractive city, very easy to walk around the center. I think I remember it being around 45 minutes by train from Amsterdam -- however, I think that there was no direct service -- that you had to go thru a connecting town and transfer. There are a couple of notable churches, town hall, central market (lots of cheese for sale......). I also liked the character of the place -- didn't seem too touristy -- more like a normal town where people lived normal lives not too affected by swarms of tourists. I enjoyed just moseying around the center, looking in the shops.

You can find out information on train routes, schedule and cost. The input is a little fussy and I always seem to get a warning the first time I put in a town because I don't know the exact station. It does fill in the most common station for you and I usually just click 'give journey advice' a second time. Once you get the schedule, you can click train route to see a map of the route and stations.

What is really nice about this site is it tells you what track to find the train. So you don't have to worry about changing trains. From Amsterdam Centraal to Gouda, you will change trains in Utrecht. You'll arrive in Utrecht on track 12a/b and need to walk to track 5a/b to get on the train to Gouda.

Trains are very efficient and always on time. I never used a car the whole three months we lived in Holland.

Marta

I'm curious about Gouda. Marta, you referred to it as a "costumed city" - what does this mean? And David, you said it wasn't too touristy, what time of year did you go? I've read about the cheese market, but that it is basically just a show for tourists. Perhaps if I went it should be on a different day. Regardless, I'm afraid there will be huge crowds wherever I go, as I chose (by accident) the most crowded, touristed week of the whole year, the week leading up to Queens Day!

I was mainly referring to the Cheese Market. Otherwise Gouda is small town and potentially rather quiet. The cheese market is on Thursdays starting in June. I have never been to the Market. I was in Gouda at Christmas for the candle lighting ceremony. Gouda would actually be a nice option also.

There is a pretty central square, a church, canals and a few museums. It does sound like there are also good crafts and small shops. It sounds like another great outing from Amsterdam.

I am not certain how crowded it will be in general in the towns the week before Queens Day. I don't remember it being extremely crowded. It will be crowded on the weekends at places like Keukenhof and Floriade. I expect the evening of Monday Apr 29th to be very busy especially in Den Haag. They have outdoor bands in the squares and a carnival to start the Queens Day celebrate the evening before. Queens Day will definitely be crowded.

I think any of the smaller towns you have in interest, Gouda, Haarlem, Delft are all good towns to get a good flavor of Holland.

Marta

Hi:

I was in Gouda in October, not high tourist season anyway, so I'm really not sure how crowded it might get at other times.

But I think that Marta's assessment of the town is good -- smallish, a few nice things to see, pleasant atmosphere.

I don't think the market I saw was the cheese market -- rather just your basic market in the central square on a Saturday morning. There was plenty of cheese there but it didn't seem like the major attraction. There were also plenty of vendors of fruits and vegetables, clothing, etc.

Regarding seeing windmills in Holland the Key Tour company which is right off Dam Square in Amsterdam has several nice tours that go into Volendam and shows some nice windmills. We were in The Netherlands for two weeks in Jan.2002 and tour several of the tours with Key Tour. We then transferred to Rotterdam visiting The Hauge which has lots of windmills there. If you get to the Hauge don't miss going to Mauderdam (I know this is spelled wrong). It is Holland in miniature. The only way I can describe it is like gooney golf in the US, but it is very interesting. The whole Netherlands is shown. You walk on paths between the cities and building. The large churches are about waist high, there are people, animals, trains, boats, dams, the queens golden carriage anything about the Netherlands. It really was worth while. There is a Swiss Hotel right off the Dam Square that has an excellent resturant. It has the best Pasta Carbonara I have ever eaten. The price was great we went back three times. This is my first time visiting this site, but I am really impressed. Thanks Ladybug from Tennessee.

Welcome to SlowTrav Ladybug! Thanks for the Holland information.

Thanks, Ladybug, for the windmill info, I'll look into that tour!
That's pretty funny about the miniature Holland village. How did windmills get to be a staple of putt-putt golf anyway?