We are planning a trip to Austria in August 2006. We will be in Salzburg for 9 days with my daughters violin group (she's 10). After that, we are planning to spend another 8 days and that is what I need help with. I would like to go hiking and my wife would like to go to Venice, Italy. It looks like there is fantastic hiking in Switzerland in the Grindelwald, Wengen, and Murren area however it would be nice to find other great hikes that might be closer so we don't have to drive so much. What would you recommend and what are your thoughts about doing the hiking and Venice in 8 days? Recommended hiking around Salzburg that we can do when we have some free time? Thanks so much. Tom
Our family has visited Salzburg several times and it is one of our favorite cities! Sounds like you have a great trip planned and what a wonderful opportunity for your daughter.
Our first family trip to Salzburg was in the fall, and then we returned for Christmas 1999 and Christmas 2003. Our most recent trip to Salzburg was in July 2005. We spent two weeks based in St. Gilgen in the Salzkammergut (lake region), about 30 minutes outside the city.
We are also big big hikers. There is wonderful hiking in the Salzkammergut in several places that would be easy day trips from Salzburg. I especially recommend the Postalm, which is a high meadow area. You can also go to the top of the Zwolferhorn or the Schafsberg mountains (either hike up or take a cable car or mountain train) and hike up there. It is absolutely beautiful and August is a perfect time.
Before returning home to the USA last August we also did a 100 mile hike in the Swiss Alps. Our route took us right through the three villages you've mentioned. The hiking is strenuous, unless you use the various cable cars, mountain trains etc. to get you up the mountain and then just enjoy the hiking up there.
I personally would leave out Venice and focus on the alpine areas that interest you, although I do think Venice is wonderful too. Without looking at the logistics, I think you'll use valuable time getting over there (and then to wherever your final point is) and it also seems too different from the rest of your trip.
I have all kinds of information posted on this site that may help you. (Our daughter is 12, so perhaps our family has some things in common.) Here are a few to get you started:
I also have lots of photos from our Swiss walk posted here, though the captions are still a work-in-progress. My blog report on the 100 mile Swiss walk hasn't been posted yet... sorry!
Pauline has posted lots of great notes on Switzerland. Check here. She also knows a lot about hiking in Switzerland.
And there are many many people who can offer suggestions about Venice on the Italy board. (I'm sure many-- if not most-- of them might say to forget about hiking in Switzerland and just head right to Italy!)
I'd be glad to help you with other info as you plan your trip. It's fun to find someone interested in these special places that we love so much.
I agree with kaydee about leaving out Venice--wayyyy too out of the way given your time constraint. You could, however, avoid Switzerland altogether and go to Northern Italy, possibly going to Venice and seeing the Austro-Italian regions.... you can hike there, too. That would be more of a compromise if Venice is really high priority.
Salzburg is a great town. Hallstatt and other towns nearby are lovely, too. I personally think Switzerland and Northern Italy (parts of each, of course)are more beautiful landscape-wise... but you will have a great trip wherver you go in those areas.
"Many a trip continues long after movement in time and space has ceased." (John Steinbeck)
Posts: 372 | Location: Back in Seattle! | Registered: 07 February 2004
Tom - I am not quite sure if you want to hike around Salzburg while your daughter is there or to go and stay somewhere on the way to Venice. We have spent several wonderful summer holidays in Kitzbuehel - a really beautiful place, winter and summer and the great thing is that the mountains are not so high so there is a chance that you will reach the top! Anyway there are lots of chairlifts and gondolas to help you along. Kitz is a bit over an hour from Salzburg. Then if you wanted to drive to Venice I guess you would cut back by Innsbruck and over the Brenner Pass - what a drive! The tourist office in Kitzbuehel is really helpful - you just tell them what sort of place you want to stay and they send you a huge selection of places available for your dates and budget http://www.kitzbuehel.com/
Thanks everyone for all the feedback. The problem with going to Europe is that there is too much to do and yes we will have to adopt the attitude that we will be back. I will probably post something on the Italy message board to locate hiking in Italy because I know my wife really wants to visit Venice.
Salzburg is my favorite old european city- There is so much to see, and the surrounding area is just breathtaking. But...I just returned from Rome and Venice. Both fantastic cities. Having said that if you are interested in hiking, and family activities Salzburg area would be my prefrance. Save Venice for that romantic trip in a few years when you daughter is off on her own--believe me it will happen too soon.
I am, as usual, one heart and one mind with Kathy. Salzburg is so incredibly romantic. Beautiful "gasse" (small cobblestone pedestrian streets), wonderful authentically Austrian restaurants, some built right into the "fels" (cliffs)...a castle, a casino, it is just a lovely place to be. THere are incredible areas to hike in the Salzkammergut. The lady knows what she is talking about!!!!
Being a resident of(and B&B owner)in Italy, I am often partial to Italian vacations. But I lived in Germany for many years... and spent time in Austria which I consider to be one of the finest vacation destinations in Europe.
Kaydee and Pauline know a lot more about hiking around those areas than I can comment on. I can only talk about cultural/landscape impressions from my experience in the region.
I don't know if your daughter's trip is really scheduled, how much free time you have all together, if you have a car... or what... so obviously these suggestions all depend on your having flexibility in the trip.
I am also assuming that you aren't going to spend all your free time hiking... (but maybe I am wrong).... With a ten year old, I presume there will be lot's of other considerations/desires...
Someone mentioned the idea of family activities in the Salzkammergut area--and that is true. One advantage of Salzburg is that for a 10 year old there's heaps to do. You guys should definitely go to a salt mine and the "Sound of Music" thing(s!)(I actually never did do the Sound of Music stuff, but I bet I would have loved it as a kid). There is also a puppet theater (if you go make sure you buy tickets close up--- it makes a huge differene because those puppets really aren't that big)... ((in the winter you can ice skate...)) it's a great town.
You might want to stay in Hallstatt for a night--there's this cool cavernous cave-thing that you can go to (but tours happen at a couple of specific times, so it's hard to coordinate when only on a daytrip). Definitely rent one of the electric boats in Hallstatt--it is so much fun and a great way to see more of the lake and the town from the water. And since it's electric, it's quiet as can be, smooth, and suitable for your daughter to steer once you are in open water!!!
As for St. Gilgen and the Salzkammergut--I've been there at least three times and I do think it is pretty. But I also feel like it has this slow pace and resorty feel in some ways--I kind of feel like it is more enjoyable to the older crowd than to young people. (with the exception of Hallstatt--which is spectacular). I personally can't find much to do in many of those towns for very long at all. I think the most fun we had in St. Gilgen last June was playing with the foot massage machine about 100 m from the lake... IMO: It's just vacation homes for the Viennese (some are pretty cool to look at), cold lakes that are often wind choppy, and the landscape aroudn them is lovely, but not dramatic in the way I remember much of Switzerland and Northern Italy (like the Brenner Pass as someone above mentioned)... The Salzkammergut is simply lower elevation... But you could definitely get in some good walks and hikes there... I just wouldn't spend as much of time there, proportionally... Now I do remember there being some spectacular drive about an hour and a half south of Salzburg---some crazy road in the mountains that is supposed to be beautiful--I think it was in the Eyewitness Guide for Austria, which I don't have here at the moment... but that was something I reaaallly wanted to do but never got to... You could maybe go that way on a less direct way to Italy (if you decide to go to Italy)...
Another thing is that if you have a car, you can easily cross the border into Germany and visit some towns over there... There are salt mines in Berchtesgaden, too (I think of all peoaple Rick Steves actually perpares you best--he talks about the choices you have... they are not all the same)... For some variety, you could go to the Chiemsee and hop on the little foot ferriy to visit the two islands--they are both really cute and easy to walk around on and one of them has a palace built by Ludwig II that was a model of Versailles. That might be something that would appeal to your daughter. (Again, assuming she isn't busy all day with her music).
As for Italy or Switzerland--both are amazing so you won't go wrong with either choice. Getting to Venice and then out can be a bit more of a hassle... (I think) than just getting around in those general regions... Definitely ask in the Italy forum about Austro-Italy (the Alto Adige and Trentino regions...)... either way (I. or Switz.), you're going to some of the most beautiful parts of Europe... and I think hiking will be plentiful in those areas.
My vote: Salzburg (a given), and then down on into northern Italy and end in Venice. You can please more people that way and have more variety, witout actually making it seem like an unnatural combination (see my notes below about history). I think it actually is a shorter distance (down to Venice) than those areas of Switzerland you want to go to. Austria has this long finger pointing out in the west--- there's a lot of longitudinal driving to get over to the Swiss border and then into Switzerland... and if I remember correctly--it isn't direct. And then you still have a long ways from the Swiss border to get to the mountains you were looking into...
And one way you can think about it: As an Austrian trip! After all, much of that area of Italy was part of the Hapsburg Empire... and not too long ago! Remnants of that are everywhere... and, as I said, I think the drive might actually be (as a result of the history) a little more direct once you get closer to Innsbruck. Enjoy!!
"Many a trip continues long after movement in time and space has ceased." (John Steinbeck)
Posts: 372 | Location: Back in Seattle! | Registered: 07 February 2004
Tom - we did rather a similar journey to you when our children were small (3, 5, 7, and 9) also in August and they absolutely loved every minute of it. We 'did' Salzburg first, then we stayed 3 nights in Kitzbuehel(can't find how to do the umlaut here)and went walking in the mountains. The three year old did 12 miles without complaining because he was so enraptured with the mountains, the cows with the bells and the views. We then drove via Innsbruck over the Brenner Pass to Florence. As I said before that was wonderful drive over the mountains! That took us a day as it a lot further south and we made lots of stops en route for the children but Venice is nearer - you just turn left earlier. It didn't feel like rushed travel and I am sure you could split your trip as planned and please your wife (you will love it too!). The only thing I would say is that Venice is, by all accounts, hot and a little smelly in August and of course the crowds...I save it for autumn/winter trips myself for those reasons.
Well, I absolutely respect Sarah's opinion (and I'm so glad you are "back"), but feel I need to speak up re. her comments on St. Gilgen. I hope Charley, Kelly and I have not become the "older crowd"!!!
We thought St. Gilgen was a great base for an active vacation. Within 30 minutes there was so much to do and see: hiking in several different areas, train and cable car rides, amazing scenery, a leisurely boat cruise on one of the many lakes, quaint villages, and of course the city of Salzburg. Drive an hour and there are even more options, including Berchtesgaden as Sarah mentions. The salt mines are fun for adults and kids. We honestly could have spent a month there, and our 12-year old daughter loved it. And we did enjoy the village and the waterfront in the evenings.
I mainly mentioned the Salzkammergut because of your interest in hiking. I thought you and your wife would need some day trips while your daughter was in her violin school, and perhaps this would even be a day trip as a family if she has some time off.
We spent a week on Lake Como as part of our long trip to Europe, and although we loved the Italian Lakes, I feel that the Salzkammergut offers more in the way of a "family" vacation.
And yes-- definitely do the Sound of Music tour. It's hokey but fun! And watch the movie in preparation for your trip. Some people have said that the real star of the movie is Salzburg! This movie is now about 40 years old (I remember going to see it for the first time when I was about ten), but seems really timeless to me.
I just want to add my 2 cents and say that Salzburg is just about the lovliest villages in Europe and there are so many areas around the are for great hikes.
Please make sure that you find the Hellbrunner Alee and take a walk from "downtown" Salzburg and end up at Hellbrunn Castle. Most of the way is unpaved with open fields and beautiful houses to look at while strolling. At 53 Hellbrunner Alee is the house used in the Sound of Music movie. It is currently being used as a dorm for the Mozarteum (music school in Salzburg) It is a bit of a hike, but just so pretty and peaceful. I was at the university in 1981-82 and was able to go back there in 2002 and it all pretty much looked the same. There are also good hikes up at the Geisburg and Untersburg which the large "hills" just south of town.
You cannot go wrong with either Austria or Switzerland. All with spectacular scenery and lovley villages. Near Salzburg is Mondsee (Moon Lake), the Salzkammergut, Innsbruk, Kitzbuhl,and even towards Switzerland is the Bodensee (Lake Constance).
I think Americans feel like they have to do so much when they head overseas and sometimes you just need to slow down the pace and enjoy the area you are visiting. Maybe save Italy for another family vacation. You don't want to spend your too many of your 8 days in a car or on a train.
Have a great time.
Posts: 10 | Location: Chapel Hill, NC | Registered: 10 March 2005
Let me clarify what I was trying to say because I don't want anyone to think I would be commenting about him/her specifically, least of all make some qualitative judgement. Kaydee, I'm not implying that you are of the older crowd at all(!). The older crowd I am referring to is older people who are uninterested or, more likely, unable (due to age/condition) to have a more 'active' holiday... That's clearly not you... but that's the feeling I got in the Salzkammergut... at least in the towns. There are two reasons I mentioned that
A. One is because I remember reading about the area before I ever went and I was really excited... and then when I got there, I was slightly disappointed because I thought the towns were pretty, but kinda lifeless. I was there in March, June, October and November. Every time I enjoyed the drives and very brief stops in the towns, but had little (no?) desire to stay longer. This feeling was echoed by others (relatives and friends) who accompanied me on those trips. Like I said, we were not hikers, so we couldn't appreciate that aspect as much... Of all the towns in that general area, we thought Salzburg and Hallstatt were the most engaging--in terms of layout, setting, history, uniqueness, food, shopping, people-watching, novel things to do... SO I guess if I was disappointed a bit, I would want to share that with someone as much as I would if I were pleasantly surprised by some place that gets less attention or a bad rap.
B. Another reason is that one time we visited a Viennese family in their large summer home in St. Gilgen--it was both gorgeous and fascinating. The house was full of hunting trophies from all over the world (an eye opener for me), and the exterior decorated with skulls of deer and other animals (characteristic of many of the houses there, actually). This was a vacation home--it was huge, insular, very private... fitting to the Viennese upper class that have historically escaped the city to go to the Salzkammergut. I think that adds to the touristic appeal--that connection to the Viennese aristocraacy. But maybe all those dead animals and the history created a symbolic association for me between St. Gilgen and a feeling of utter stillness/lifelessness.
Again, just my opinion. It's good to have different perspectives becaue we are all motivated by differnt things. Just like the opinions about Venice and possible stenches--some are inspired by the history that you can smell! Others repulsed.
"Many a trip continues long after movement in time and space has ceased." (John Steinbeck)
Posts: 372 | Location: Back in Seattle! | Registered: 07 February 2004
Tom- there is some great hiking in Northeast Italy in the Dolomites. If you are coming down from Austria it would be a great stopping point before Venice. The first link is to a personal webpage that list the more challenging via ferrata routes through the dolomites. The second website will take you to hikes/treks in the Dolomites. I am not sure what your skill level is, your physical condition or even your interests. Even with the via ferrata, there are some that are considered easy. As with some of the hikes being considered hard. Just depends on what you want.
Just some side observation. The best area for hiking in all the Alps are Italian Dolomites, as the landscapes are fantastic but trails are not too steep. But I have observed, during the last years, that the area is overcrowded in the first half of August (and sometimes even overpriced).
If you want to have a detour to Switzerland, the Berner Oberland is too distant. Graubunden are much closer (for example, the Engadine area).
Some hikes are possible in South Germany, say the Garmisch area, or even in the Berchtesgaden area that is so close to Salzburg. Innsbruck is a nice city and area; I still have to try hikes in the Nordkette that look the only interesting ones.
A violinist could be interested in a visit to Mittenwald, relatively close to Innsbruck, that is the centre of German violin making - there is a small museum there. A good option could be being stationed in Garmisch or Oberammergau, and visiting Mittenwald, Garmisch, Oberammergau, the Ludwing castles (huge crowds), Wieskirche and maybe some other places around - not a bad choice for a full week, and not too distant from Salzburg. Also, the female part or your family could seriously love Oberammergau (huge quantities of kitsch souvenirs and overpriced Christmas articles there).
Do not forget to bring the daughter to the toy museum in Salzburg. Lot of dolls there.
Venezia is another story; just consider that it is a 7-8 drive from Salzburg. Also, August is probably the worst month to be in Venice (it will be hot and humid, and mosquitoes will be a nuisance). But if this is the only choice to be in Venice, it could be worth a try.
A possible problem in planning an hiking holiday, is that you have to be flexible in plans. Some years the weather is good and you can do what you like; some years you have some good days - you have to be lucky to be in the right place in the right day; some years it rains a lot and it would be better to be in a city than in a hiking place. Usually the weather is better in the first half of August, but you cannot really rely on this.
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