OK, we're about 70% decided that this will be our 2009 summer trip.

Leave STL on 17Jun. Arrive in Helsinki 18Jun. Apartment rental. No car.
Eight nights in Helsinki. (The Midsummers Eve festival which will be on Seurasaari Island appeals to us.)

Overnight train to St. Petersburg on 26Jun.

Eight nights in St. Petersburg. Apartment rental. No car. (The White Nights Festival will be going on while we are here.)

Overnight train to Tallinn on 15Jul.

Eight nights in Tallinn. Apartment rental. And, maybe a car rental for trips into the countryside.
(The Ollesummer Festival will be in full swing while we are here.)

Ferry to Helsinki on 14Jul.

One night in Helsinki near airport.

Fly back to STL 15Jul.

I'd love to hear from anyone with thoughts on this plan. Suggestions on these cities. And especially apartment rental experience.

I'd also be happy to have people offer alternative ideas. I'm well known for being easily influenced to change not only the small details but entire country destinations.

I think you have too many days for Tallin and Helsinki

I think you could easily shorten it to 5 days each and still be at the Slow Travel pace.

8 days in St. Petersburg is good, but I would stay longer, there is soooo much to see. I've been there 6 days and could easily spend another 6 days.

There is such a cultural immersion there, that your brain becomes drained very easily.
and it's nothing like you have experienced in any of your western europe travels

You are so close to Latvia and Lithuania,
did you consider them? We loved Vilnius!

I have been a bit worried we are spending too much time in Helsinki. It appeals to us the least, but it is the best place to arrive and depart. (both for convenience and cost)
Perhaps we should consider just a couple of days there to recover from jet lag, and spend the bulk of our time someplace like Turku, or maybe the Aland Islands.

I'm not worried about too much time in Tallinn, though. We will probably do some day trips out into the countryside or along the coast from Tallinn, so that entire eight days won't be in just one city.

Plus, at the end of our trips, we really like to unwind and be lazy. So, we'll have no problem with being in Tallinn with absolutely nothing to do but sit in a cafe and people watch all day.

I'm limiting our time in St. Petersburg to eight nights for financial reasons. It is a very expensive city, and during White Nights it is at its MOST expensive.

I know that some of the other Baltic states seem close. But, we are very much the less is more types. We would never try to combine, for example, Milan and Palermo in one trip, yet from Tallinn to Vilnius is the same distance. We'll just save those countries for a future tirp.

Thanks for the comments. Keep them coming.

Deborah

i sent you a pm, it's my 1st time I began one, hopefully i did it right

I agree on fewer nights in both Helsinki and Tallin. I also would check into the schedule on the overnight trains you are considering. The distance between Helsinki and St Petersburg is not that far, but I don't know the train routing or the time required for the border crossing. I think the road distance is only about 250 miles, though, and I wonder if that would be to short as an overnight trip....maybe arriving very very early in the morning??

Bill

Thanks Bill. I didn't even consider the distance. I was thinking more in terms of liking to not waste daylight hours on getting from one city to another.
I'll check that out.

I understand the idea of cutting down of the Helsinki days, but why Tallinn?

Tallin is not a big place. I visited there several years ago on a day trip from Helsinki. I would think that you could do it great justice in 3-4 days. I don't know much about the surrounding country though
Bill

Deborah, another possibility to investigate for the Helsinki/St. Petersburg leg is an overnight ferry or ship.

We took a Russian ship that left Helsinki in the early evening and arrived early the next morning. This was in the dark ages shortly after the Soviet Union collapsed and services were undeveloped. We actually stayed aboard the ship for 3 nights or so in St. Petersburg and then sailed back to Helsinki. I don't remember the name of the line or ship, and we were still using a travel agent then.

Thanks, Bill. When you say 3-4 days is that the amount of time it would take to visit churches, museums, theatre, etc? Or do you think that that would include time to just hang out?
Tallinn does participate in the European City Card program, but I see that compared to Budapest, the participation is a much smaller number of museums and businesses.

Cubbies, thanks for the suggestion of the overnight ferry. But, after the experience on the ferry from Montenegro to Italy, I may not be able to convince Dan to try it again so soon.

I have to confess that my time there was really only one day. I took the morning ferry over from Helsinki and then back that evening. I walked a lot in the old medieval part of town and even did some shopping for a copy of Little Red Riding Hood in Estonian.

I had planned for only a day trip so I wasn't dissapointed with the shortness of my trip but I didn't leave with a feeling that I just had to get back to see "all the rest of the things."

I think you'll have plenty of time to hang out and enjoy yourself.

Bill

Putin's most recent saber-rattling has us second guessing our trip plans for next summer.

On one hand, we don't want to foolishly plan a trip that is at risk for last minute cancellation. On the other, we feel a sense of urgency to see The Hermitage before St. Petersburg slips behind another Iron Curtain.

A person close to me is career psy-ops with the Army. He is in a position to know much more than the average American, the press, or for that matter most of our politicians. Although he can't tell me anything specific, when I mentioned a trip that involved the Baltics, he said "Sooner rather than later, or not at all."

let me suggest this website to you since you are going to St Pete. You will find everything you need here http://petersburgcity.com/
I also would like to make a comment that in general in Russia regular people ignore politics and welcome tourists to their country. St Pete always had and still has a nobility feel in itself compare to Moscow. Go for it and enjoy.

Hi Nat. Thanks for the comment. I'm not at all worried about the people of Russia. We are very much looking forward to meeting many warm and friendly people and making friends.

My worries are of a much more practical nature.

What I'm concerned about is that the escalation of hostility in the Baltic area may cause enough concern that the US State Department issues travel advisories for Estonia and Russia. Travel advisories make it difficult to get affordable travel insurance.

Kind of late to the discussion, but let me (a) urge you not to be concerned about the politics and (b) cut down on your time in Helsinki.

I was in Russia before the changeover and again after and found the country to be wonderful no matter what the political climate. There were many differences, of course, with some for the better and some for the worse, but still a place I would go back to in a heartbeat.

Helsinki is a very modern and very sterile city. It has none of the charm of the other Scandinavian capitals, but does have every bit of the same expense.

The train ride from St Petersburg to Helsinki was worth every minute of the adventure, but we were a lot younger and the idea of sitting up all night partying with people we had never met before (and none of whom spoke English) was appealing to me and my wife...not sure how I would have felt about it if we had wanted to sleep, however.

Just a note that the train was not overly clean. There was also a very long delay at the border as both the Russian and then the Finnish border guards did document checks.

St Petersburg is one of the great cities of the world, so I don't think you will have a problem filling up your time there.

http://gotorussia.com/hotels_and_apartments_apartments_in_st_petersburg.htm
FIND APARTMENT ON NEVSKII ON GRIBOEDOV RIGHT IN THE CENTER OF THE CITY. i will get you the website on travel insurance

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Shannon,

i guess this will help you . good luck
http://www.insuremytrip.com/index-1000-0-30002-0.html

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Shannon,

Alpinista, thanks for the insight about Helsinki. I've heard that basic observation quite a few times.

Nat, MANY thanks for your recommendation on apartment location in St. Petersburg.
What do you know about the advantages of canal vs not location? It seems that in many of the listings I've looked at, they list a canal location as a desirable plus.

Apartments near canals in St Petersburg- very common locations and close to the center of the city. Canals are kind of crossing Nevskiy prospect ,central street, where restorants bookstores shopping centers are located.Canal Griboedova for example were we stayed is right at Nevskiy and close to metro.
Apartments in St Pete are nicely renovated. We had an internet access and also telephone but used international calling cards to make calls to USA. june is a busy time in St Pete so book early.It is a White Nights time with lots of activities.
You can walk to Hermitage from for example Canal Griboedova location in about 15-20 minutes.
I would try to book some of the activities in advance. Going to Petergoff or Katherine's Palace in Pushkino can be challenging without locals - lines are long .
I would be glad to answer any more questions you have.
Sorry i am about 2 months late to respond.

Thanks to everyone for all your advice on this trip. We've finally made up our mind to put it on a back burner for another year.
We're going to spend a week in Belfast and three weeks in Northern Scotland instead.