Myself a friend and our three daughters(5females,two under 24years) will be traveling to Germnay in late April. Four of us have 13 days one goes home from Zurich on day 10. We want to see Castles, the Rhine River, old world stuff. Maybe also do a trip to Rome or Paris for a few days. One of my Daughters is living in Friedrichshafen for an internship we are go to visit her so we will be able to crash at her place when near by. Friedrichshafen is so close to Switzerland, France and Austria we may be able to travel there also.Interlocken and Lucern espeacially sound interesting.
Should we be buying train passes or renting a car?
Any itinaray ideas?

Irene,

Car or train? My advice: both. I'd suggest taking trains between major cities. That should be fairly easy. There is also a train line (Wiesbaden-Koblenz) which runs through the Rheingau, that section of the Rhine which has the most castles. However, in order to go up into the mountains or easily go from town to town, you should have a car for convenience.

For example, if you were to take a train into Wiesbaden or Mainz (across the river), you could rent a car in one of those cities to use while you were touring in that area. We used to live in Wiesbaden and really enjoyed driving round from one "weinort" to another or taking in views of the castles.

Have you considered actually staying at a castle? I haven't, but I've been thinking about it. The rates I've seen are surprisingly reasonable, at least in euros. A few examples along this stretch of the Rhine are the Castle Hotel Burg Gutenfels and the Hotel Castle Reichenstein.

Ann

Ann,
Thanks for your advice we would really enjoy staying in a castle I will look those two suggestions up. How do I know in what area I'm better with the train or car. We are trying to decide if we should just stay within 100 miles of Friedrichshafen which gives us alot to explore plus add a two day trip to Rome or Paris(maybe fly there)In this case is a car the best way to go. The other option we are thinking about is to travel from Friedrichshafen around Germany counter clockwise making Berlin the farthest point ending in Switzerland. In this plan I think the train maybe a better answer.
Any thoughts? Will we miss the old world charm if we are limited to train travel only? Maybe a trian to Berlin then rent a car to travel back?
There is a lot to think about I am so greatful to have found a place to ask these questions Thank You

Irene, with only 13 days I would concentrate on Germany and leave Rome or Paris for another trip. I would think that a few days in Berlin followed by a few days in the Rhine or Mosel valley would be perfect.

I priced some train trips out of Berlin and they were sort of expensive, IMO. Maybe you could fly into Berlin, then get a car and make your way down, hitting the Rhine and Mosel valleys, and ending up in Friedrichshafen?

I also like the idea of staying around Friedrichshafen and exploring the area around there.

But I would definitely save Rome and Paris for another time.

Let's stick with Shannon's idea for only Germany for a minute:

Fly into Berlin. Get to know one of the most interesting cities in Europe.

Plan 4 nights there.

Visit Potsdam both for its Prussian History, the San Souci Palace, Cecilienhof (the site of the famous Potsdamer Conference at the end of WW2), some of the most beautiful lakes in Germany and for its extremely interesting cold war history (locations for spy exchanges for east and west, KGB Headquarters, etc.)

Travel east towards Hamburg, the richest city in Germany and by far the most beautiful.It has the second largest harbor in Europe and the most interesting Art Nuveau architecture, fabulous restaurants and wonderful parks. Visit Lübeck, Lüneburg, and Travemünde. 2 -3 nights.

Travel south towards Frankfurt. On the way, stop in Göttingen for lunch.

Head towards the Rheingau and/or Rheinhessen.
Locate in one place and visit any of the following: Mainz, Wiesbaden, Bad Kreuznach, the Nah Valley, Kiedrich, Eltville, Koblenz. Visit Schloss Johannisberg, Reingrafenstein, Kloster Eberbach, Schloss Krass. More castles than you could imagine. 4 nights.

Head down toward Friedrichshafen. Visit Basil, Freiburg, the french Vorgese, a bit of the Alsace. 2 nights

... and fly out of Frankfurt.

...for example.

Distances by car

Berlin - Hamburg 2.5 hours (1.5 with the ICE train)

Hamburg - Wiesbaden 5.5 hours if you don't have alot of traffic jams

Wiesbaden - Friedrichshaven a good 3 to 3.5 hours

I would say you can do Berlin and Hamburg by train (including some of those touring destination) but I would want a car in the Rheingau for touring the little towns and for driving down towards the Swiss border, and for getting back to Frankfurt Airport.

Incidentally, Diana, have you or do you know anyone who has actually stayed in one of the Rheingau castles? The idea intrigues me. We haven't been back to Germany in many, many years, and I keep thinking about it. I'd like to stay in one place along the Rhine and visit many of our old stomping grounds. I don't think I'd like to stay right in Rudesheim, but I'd certainly eat in a gasthaus there.

Ann

It has been many years since we were in Germany. I know we stayed in a couple of castles and felt at that time it was very upscale and enjoyed it. Here is one of the ones we stayed in http://www.german-castles-road.com/schlosshotel-hirschhorn/

Unfortunatly the site is only in German. It was outside Heidelberg. We ate dinner that night at an Italian restaurant and were out of duetch marks...the owner was a kick and eneded up taking our $$$ and drinking into the wee hours of the night!

By playing around with the link "dogma" provided, I found this - Hotel Schoenburg. It is near Oberwesel, on the Rhine. I am fairly familiar with the area. Doesn't it look great? Doubles are listed as starting about 165 euro/room. (Site is in English or German.)

Ann

How's this?

Good advice above to limit your choices. Time spent getting there can detract.

Let your daughter walk you around her area for a few days.

I always prefer a car but train service is good and can be relaxing.

Take time to smell the edelweiss and enjoy.

Thanks for all your advice. I sure need it. We had a meeting of the 5 travers yesterday and all decided Venice would be a good outside trip to add to our advanture. It looks good on paper but that saying "you can't get there from here" has been eating at me all afternoon.
As of yesterday our revised plan looks like this

Friday and Friday night- (our arrival day) in Friedrichshafen.

Saturday- rent a car and head for Titisee,Blackforest High road and maybe make it into Strasbough for lunch. Spend the night near Karlsruhe.

Sunday- Mainz and visit an unknown cousin in Darmstadt. There is a hostel that is in a castle in Bacharach thats where we are hoping to stay on Sunday.

Monday- Koblenz with all the castles and Frankfurt overnight.

Tuesday- This is where our plan goes sour. We thought get a train or a plane to Vernice since it closer then Paris or Rome and sounds interesting.

I have been on the computer for hours trying to find a plane to get us from Venice to Zurich. (I found a good flight from Frankfurt to Venice)but no easy quick way back to Friedrichshafen
It was nice to come here and hear you all say what I've been realizing. It's to much to do in one trip. Now I just have to convince my traveling buddies.
I'll let you know how we are coming. Thanks for all your help keep the ideas coming.
I love the picture

quote:

There is a hostel that is in a castle in Bacharach thats where we are hoping to stay on Sunday.

That hostel has good views of Bachrach and the river valley. I have been to it during a visit but we did not stay there, and I can't speak about the hostel itself.

I agree with the other people who said to stick with Germany and don't try to squeeze in Italy or France.

Bill

Since you plan on (maybe) going to Strasbourg, direct high speed TGV trains only take about 2:20 hours to Paris; direct TGV from Karlsruhe takes about 3:30. Logistically, it would be a lot easier to go to Paris than Venice. You can look up the times on:
http://www.bahn.de/international/view/en/index.shtml

There is a low-cost offshoot of TGV called IDTGV which offers tickets only within France:

http://www.idtgv.com/2i/accueil.html&AGENCY=VSC

You could go from Strasbourg to Paris, and then return Paris to Mulhouse (and on to Zurich) if you wanted to find low fares.

If you want to travel around a particular region of Germany, the all day rail passes are amazing value. In Bavaria, for example, 5 people can travel anywhere they like within Bavaria for the whole day for 27 Euros - not each, but for all 5. I think the other regions of Germany have the same thing. If you are wanting to keep costs down, it can be worth amending your trip a bit to use these tickets.

Part of slow travel philosophy is to visit the area where you find yourself. Why not just be tourists in Baden Wuerttemberg and along the Bodensee?

The Lander tickets that Margaret alludes to above (you would want Baden Wuerttemberg) are explained here on the bahn website - the limitation is that you cannot use the most express trains and must initially depart after 9:00 a.m.:
http://www.bahn.de/international/view/en/prices/germany/laender_tickets.shtml

You can find the trains for which these tickets work as follows: On the second page which pops up on the bahn site after you have input your arrival and departure points, one of the popdown menus is "Means of Transport". The default is "standard search". But if you select the choice "without ICE/IC/EC" you will get the trains which qualify for the lander tickets.

I don't have personal experience of travel in this area, but there is a wealth of information on the Tripadvisor Germany forums. Here is an example which has a lot of information on the BW area:

Tripadvisor

The travelling after 9am only applies on weekdays. They are valid any time at weekends. If you want to start out earlier on weekdays, you just buy a ticket to the first station you will reach after 09.00 and then use the regional ticket.

Hi all,
Your advice is priceless.
I have put my daughter in charge of outside Germany trips. I want to follow your advice to stay in Germany, yet she has been in Germany for 8months on her own with me telling her not to travel alone. With us there to travel with her she would like to see another location. So we have agreed to have two nights to do outside of Germany. Therefore the train advive to Paris will be helpful for her to plans for and outside Germany trip any other ideas? Thanks lots

Given your location, Switzerland and the French region of Alsace. You can take the train to several locations in Switzerland such as Zürich, Bern, or even Lugano (for a visit to the Italian speaking part of Switzerland, the train from Southern Germany would probably take about four hours).

Thank you for all your advice.
We have finalized our plans.
Got our hotels and rental car booked and are just waiting for our travel date to arrive.
We will stay in germany and not try to go else where (Thank you for that call.)
With the exception of Strasbourg and Zurich. which we are going to visit for a day each
We plan on Going to the Stuttgart spring festival and make a visit to Braungschweig and visit many towns inbetween. I have to say the advice about using auto-europe was great.
We not only booked our car but all our hotels for different nights in different spots around Germany and I was able to do it all by phone.
I was having trouble trying to make arrangement via the internet. With 5 of us traveling so may hotel would not let me put in 5 people to stay one night The auto-europe people where great. I'll let you know how the places are when I get back. Thanks again!
One more question
are Gas stations opened on Sunday in Germany.
Irene

Generally yes, although some in small villages might not be. In rural areas, gas stations are mainly open during the day and shut at 6pm or 7pm.

Hi Margaret,
Thanks for the gas info.
We will be making several trips back and forth from Friedrichshafen to Zurich. I've looked into the train. Does anyone have information about taking the ferry and a bus?
Thanks Irene

Wow all of you have some great advice. That is why I would like to ask something.

I am planning on backpacking through Europe alone in September, and should be in Munich right around the time of Oktoberfest. I guess the idea of this trip was kind of last minute (at least the idea of Oktoberfest), however, I am now running into the issue of not being able to find a place to stay. I was hoping to stay in a hostel in order to be around other people my age but there are no more hostels available.

I could stay outside of Munich just a train ride away, but I started to wonder if maybe I could find pensions or a family who has a spare room for travelers. Any thoughts on how to go about that?