Zak posed this question in another thread. What if you only have two weeks and this will be your only trip to Italy ever - what is the best itinerary?

Pauline's answer: The perfect two week trip for a once in a lifetime trip to Italy:

- Fly to Rome: 3 nights in hotel or apartment.
- Pickup rental car. Drive to Tuscany. Stop along the way to explore a place in Lazio or southern Umbria.
- One week in a vacation rental - either south of Siena around Pienza or the Chianti region. See some of Tuscany. Spend a day in Florence.
- Drive to Assisi. One night in Assisi.
- Drive to Venice - stop in Urbino or Ravenna on the way. Drop off car.
- 3 nights in Venice. Fly home from there.

14 nights in total. You have to arrange it so the weekly rental is Saturday to Saturday. This would give a lovely week in the countryside and a week of seeing the bigger cities. I know I am not giving enough time to Florence, but I figure after this trip - - they will decide they have to return.

For a one timer, I see nothing wrong with the classic Rome-Firenze-Venezia circuit. One day in Firenze is criminal. I just can't imagine anyone coming and never returning. But then, other people feel that way about Mexico or Hawaii or name any place you will.
I could easily spend 2 weeks in either Rome or Firenze. I probably have one time or the other.

I may be struck by lightning for saying this, but...

For a one-time only trip of only two weeks, I think I would abandon the idea of slow travel and go with something like this:

Fly into Rome, spend 4 nights there
Train to Florence, 3 nights
rent car for a driving loop through Tuscany and back to Florence, 3 nights
Train to Venice, 4 nights
Fly home from Venice

Fly in to Rome rather than Milan.

If you like cities, stay in Rome two weeks with 3 day trips: for example Ostia, Tivoli, Viterbo.

If you prefer the relative countryside, exit Rome airport by train immediately, to some small convenient place along the train line. Because there is basically only one train line to the airport -- to Orte, although by two routes (S. Oreste or Fara in Sabina) the possibilities are equally limited.
   At Orte one can change towards either Florence or Ancona: so one's base would be along one of those 2 lines. For a first trip to Italy, a small village would feel very isolated, so I'd opt for a larger place.
   Orvieto (on the Florence line), or Spoleto or Fabriano (on the Ancona line). The best choice -- remember, you're not keen on cities -- is Fabriano.

Car people who don't mind renting and driving:
   Sea-lovers: my choice would be Gaeta.
   Mountain-lovers: my choice would be Ascoli Piceno.

Each of these 6 attractive and in varying ways typical places then serves as a base for simple day excursions, making sure that you don't use Orvieto as a base for seeing Ravenna or Paestum, etc.

A careful 2 weeks and you'll coming back with a good feel for a specific area of Italy.

Hm.....

We did a trip similar to the one Chris describes in '92. This was our itinerary:

Venice - 3 nights
Stop in Ravenna on the way to Bologna - one night
Florence - 3 nights
Drive through Chianti to Siena - one night
Gubbio - one night
Spoleto - one night
Rome - 4 nights

We picked up a car leaving Venice and dropped it off in Rome.

Now that it's 10 years later, I think I'm in a good position to evaluate the merits/disadvantages of this particular trip. Much of it is quite vivid to me right now. Many of the memories haven't particularly gelled together, with one exception -- art that we took in (but this was also the case on our "slower" trips). My brain doesn't have much of a retentive nature for processing lots of art. There are a few pieces that made indelible impressions on me (e.g. almost any Donatello sculpture I saw and a few selected paintings). We stayed in hotels the entire time, all of which I still remember -- the ones with owners with whom we got on well are stronger in my memory.

I can contrast this trip with two subsequent (yet more recent) trips in which we stayed in vacation rental houses. The biggest difference is that sense of "going home to 'our' house" and enjoying just staying put occasionally and smelling the proverbial roses or rosemary, as it were. In 1992, we actually lost weight -- constantly moving, walking -- eating lots of food, lots of gelato, but in constant motion. On the more recent trips we gained weight! Well, we're also older.

If we knew we'd only had one trip to Italy in our lives, with the hindsight that I now have, I'd be torn between Pauline's itinerary and Chris'. On one hand, the experience of staying in a vacation rental is very strong. On the other hand, I'm very glad to have been in a number of different places and seen a lot of variety. For instance, the mosaics in Ravenna are spectacular. If the only trip we were to take were a Slow one, we'd probably not have seen those mosaics and I'm so glad to have seen them.

I think I'm coming out more on Chris' faster travel side of the issue, if it were a given that this were the ONLY time I'd ever get to Italy -- or, for that matter, any place. It seems natural to do a Fast trip the first time you go any place and then on subsequent visits, to enjoy Slower trips more.

Interesting thread, given that we're leaving tomorrow for 2 weeks in Italy and 5 days in Switzerland. Knowing what I know now, I would probably ditch the 2 nights in Milan and have remained in Venice longer. The itinerary: 5 nights in Rome, 4 in Florence, 2 in Venice, 2 in Milan, and 2 each in Interlaken and Lucern.

Yes, it's a lot of moving. However, I must consider my husband's sensibilties; he's new to European travel and is less likely to want to return to a place than I. Therefore, the pace is faster than I usually like and definitely NOT slow travel. I hope we will return to Italy and park ourselves in Umbria or Tuscany for at least 3 weeks sometime in the future.

I have never been a real slow traveler. I treat each new place as if I will never return. Fortunately, I have been able to travel to London four times and ventured out into the countryside for slower travel. So far my only repeat.

We recently made our first trip to Italy. Next time will definitely be slow travel. We flew into Venice for 3 nights, train to Florence for 2 nights. We picked up our mini-bus (there were 5 of us) in Florence and spent four nights at a friend's rental house in Tuscany. From there we visited San Gimignano, Siena and the area around Montalcino (lunch at Bocon di Vino was superb). It was really nice to spend one day at the house lounging around the pool and resting our very tired feet. We then drove to Assisi for a too quick look-see and onto Rome for 4 nights.

This was one of my most memorable trips. I know I skipped through Italy, missing much, seeing more. I retire in 3 years and will be able to travel very slowly. But, for the average American traveler with a limited amount of vacation time, this was a good way to see as much as possible. We plan these trips as a one time only visit. Would that everyone were able to spend a week here, two weeks there.

I'm hooked on Slow Travelers. It was very helpful in planning my trip and I drop in everytime I'm on-line.

I think it is vital for the traveler with limited time to first think about what how he wants to spend his days and nights. There's room for different travel experiences. Some people do feel the need to "collect" places or experiences- and if it works for them, who am I to argue? If I had two weeks in Italy that were to be a taste of what the country is about, I'd want to think about my interests, pleasures, and goals. I know that how I visit other places at this time in my life is different from how I did it 20 years ago; and will most probably be different from how I do it 20 years in the future.
Do cities drive me mad and make me want to flee, no matter how historic, beautiful, or exciting? Am I bored by small villages, churches, and countryside driving? Would I want to see artwork of specific periods? Cities of the renaissance, medieval hill towns, ancient ruins? Do I want to cram in many museums to satisfy a specific craving, or just choose two or three important ones? Do I rush through one, then say "enough" while I ask the museum guards for the place with the most fantastic, traditional lunch? Do I need landscape, nature; or never care that I don't see a tree? Did Sister Mary Yardstick forever drive away any appreciation for church artwork and architecture? How much packing and unpacking do I want to do? Does it take me more than 3-4 days to feel comfortable in a new environment, especially if I do not speak the language? How good am I at planning? At adapting, being flexible?

All that said- I think I'd also start with 3 days Rome; 1 week rental somewhere where I could enjoy village life, and access to one or two small cities; and end with 3 days in Venice. However, my first trip to Italy was in the Valle d' Aosta region, on a detour from France. Just a few days, but the memory has endured; and I think I got a good, though tiny, beginning little taste of a region of Italy.

That makes me remember our first trip to Italy. It was near the beginning of our 9 month trip in Europe in 1988. Steve had been to France and England on typical two week vacations and I had spent 6 weeks in Europe when I was 17. Up until 1988 that was all the European travel we had done.

In 1988 we had planned to spend most of our time in Switzerland, but we arrived in June and it was still cold there - so we thought "lets go to Italy". Train from Switzerland to Florence. We changed trains in Milan and had the best coffee of our lives in the train station. Two nights in a cheap dreadful hotel by the train station, then we switched to a lovely small hotel by the Pitti Palace. Five nights there. We wanted to go swimming, so we went to the Amex office in Florence and a lovely lady there told us about Monte Argentario and the hotel Torre de Calla Picolo. She booked us in an apartment in the hotel for a week. We took the train and spent the week at the hotel - we had not car and were terrified to attempt driving (also concerned about the cost). So every day we went swimming, we walked the 5 or 10 miles to Porto Santo Stefano and took a taxi back with groceries.

In hindsight - we should have gone to a hotel in Liguria where we could have taken trains to see things. There was not even a public bus from this hotel. Or even better - a vacation rental. But we did not know about vacation rentals in Italy back then.

That was it - our first trip to Italy for two weeks. It certainly was not love at first sight because we did not go back until 1996.

We leave for a 2 week trip to Italy in 1 week. I planned this one for the benefit of the 5 teenagers we are bringing, so I needed to keep up a pretty good pace. We fly into Rome and drive to Florence (a pain I know, but the wonderful apartment I wanted was only available during this time). We will spend 4 nights in Florence, 2 nights in Siena, 2 nights in Venice, 2 nights in Rimini, and 3 nights in Rome. Personally I would take out Rimini and spend the extra days in Rome, but this place really appealed to the older teens. While in Tuscany we plan on visiting wineries and small towns.

This is all great information, could you go one step further, we have three weeks, will be flying into Venice, staying 3 nights, would like a week vacation home, about 3 extra days and then last three nights in Rome. There will be two couples, would need two bedrooms, two bathrooms and would love to be close enough, (if not actually in) to a small town within walking distace for caffe, some dinners,etc. Do you have a property you would recommend? We had origianlly thought of renting in one of the towers of San Gamignao, what do you think about that? Too touristy, too small? You are all wonderful!

David is younger than I am! In fact, I've always been slow to absorb -- so "what is fast, what is slow", that too turns out to depend on each one of us.

How 'bout this compromise? Travel being ultimately about one's own dreams, interests, capacity to absorb, memories, the first rule is (as in everything else): Know Yourself.

I would hope there is no ideal trip anywhere; we are all so different! Travel with me, and I'll drag you on foot through four miles of muddy road and nettles to see the débris of an aqueduct, if we find it. Travel with someone else, and they might drag me from Ferragamo thru the via Condotti to a film festival to the discos until 3 a.m. One of us is going to be bored and tired...

What an interesting thread this has turned out to be! I just love reading about other people's trips, where they went, why they went there, what they would do if they had it to do over! AS for Art and me, we never had ANY desire to go to Italy...had been all over Europe, just never felt the "pull", so when my son was stationed there for 2 years we said "now's the time" and off we went! Being EXTREMELY intimidated by my lack of langualge skills, we opted for a tour our first time...maybe 12 days, and due to the fact that we had an absolute GEM of a tour guide, by the time our tour was finished and we were about to start on our final week alone, we felt SO comfortable about everything! Maybe this is just beginners luck, or the old "ignorance is bliss" put into action, but once we went, we were hooked, so I think the bottome line is...do what you can afford, both money-wise and time-wise, even if you have to plan it as if it truly is your one and only trip, but I think once you go the first time, you'll be back..even if it's 8 years later like Pauline and Steve!

Bill said:

quote:

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Travel with me, and I'll drag you on foot through four miles of muddy road and nettles to see the débris of an aqueduct, if we find it.

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It's a good thing we don't travel together, Bill!

All of this is moot without knowing the time of year one is planning to go! Hot, crowded cities in the summer are unbearable -- I'd stay in the countryside the whole time. Museums with two hour lines? No thanks. I think there are two perfect two week trips. One for summer, and another, vastly preferable, for off-season.

Yes, yes, yes. Give me Lazio's beaches (slowly) in the summer and Abruzzo, Umbria, Marche, and everywhere's old rocks in the fall (slow or fast and keep it coming).

Carole.

Ooh Beel, you're just too conciliatory! I was hoping for a good little duel, so to speak. Oh well.

Nah. I agree with the Know Thyself thing. It truly helps in trip planning. I often find it amazing how little people actually think ahead about what will really work for them when traveling. Perhaps it just takes experience to learn, like everything else.

On a side note, I actually had a nightmare, that is ..... a dream .....ahem..... (!) that I was on a walking trip with Bill somewhere in Italy -- somewhere where it was very hot and dry! Do you think that I've been spending too much time reading posts? (In fact, I very much do like to walk -- if my stoopid shin splints can take it..... Maybe I'm not as young as you think I am? )

Know thyself and be realistic about yourself and your situation. A good friend of mine planned a family vacation for herself, husband and 3 young children. The husband wanted two weeks in Hawaii, but the airfares were too high, so they did a week in a hotel outside Disneyland in California. This was a vacation they were taking while moving - to have something to do while their possesions were moving from one coast to the other. After selling one house, buying another.

If they had been realistic, they would have realized that the last thing they needed was a hectic crowded vacation - what they needed was a rest to recover from the first part of the move.

She phoned me after the week in Disneyland and said "what were we thinking?"

Would you believe that I too occasionally have nightmares about walking some awful terrain with myself? Asfer conciliatory, I have a horrible temper: so even faced with someone Hellacious, it's to my own advantage to keep very quiet...

I get that question almost everyday. I am not sure there is only one perfect 2 week itinerary for Bella Italia. It really takes at least 6 weeks to see Italy well, and after nine trips I have still not seen it all. However, given only 2 weeks, I would consider a north or south orientation to reduce travel time. Here are some of my favs--I really like the " Bella Italia" for a first timer.

BOB the NAVIGATORS’ FAVORITE ITINERARIES
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MAGICAL FAIRYLANDS:
* Arrive and depart from Munich--14 nites--May thru Sep.--car travel
* ITINERARY: Salzburg, Dolomites, Venice, Lake Garda, Bavaria
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BELLA ITALIA:
* Arrive Milan, depart Venice--15 nites--car & train travel--April thru Oct.
* ITINERARY: The Lakes, Ligurian coast, Tuscany, Florence, Venice
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CLASSIC ITALIA:
* Arrive & depart Rome--12 to 14 nites--car & train travel, all year
* ITINERARY: Florence, Tuscan & Umbrian hilltowns, Rome
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LA DOLCE VITA:
* Arrive & depart Rome--12 nites--car & train travel--March thru Oct.
* ITINERARY: Amalfi coast, Tuscan/Umbrian hilltowns, Rome
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OF ALPS & LAKES:
* Arrive and depart Zurich--12 nites--train travel--June thru Sep.
* ITINERARY: Berner Oberland, Lugano, Lake Como, Luzern
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THE VILLAGE SAMPLER: [my off-the-path personal favorites]
* Arrive Milan & depart Rome--12 to 15 nites---car travel--April thru Oct.
* Small quaint villages to include: Lake Orta, Portovenere, Montalcino, Spello, Orvieto, Sperlonga, Ravello, Castelrotto [ pick four of above]
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These are merely intended to be sample itineraries. Every TRIP PLAN is unique and is designed to meet your personal travel style, budget, and preferences.
__________________________________________________________

BOB THE NAVIGATOR

What if you only had 9 days instead??
We are about to take off to Italy and have decided on car travel in the north.
Our itinery reads:
Florence (1 night)
Manarola (2)
Bellagio (1)
Dolomites(4)
Venice (1)

We decided on a longer stay in the alps as we are meeting friends but we could have easily spent another week there too!
In fact, a week in each part could easily be achieved.

Some people have mentioned that it is criminal to leave Rome out but I would like to think this is not my last trip to Italy.

ciao