Hello: I have been reading posts to this forum for over a year, and appreciate comments on everything from train travel to electronic gadgets to great food...
We have arranged two-plus months in a rustic farmhouse in Umbria, south of Lake Corbara between Orvieto and Todi. We won't have a car but will have bikes (though we aren't exactly athletes ). It's just the two of us, no kids. We like the idea of immersion in a small village but have larger-town needs like food variety. We will be using some of our time for writing and photography.
Has anyone had a living experience in this area? Of course we have done all of the internet searching, but would like some first-hand experience to guide us. We'd welcome any comments on climate, hospitality, food, activities etc. How are the public transportation links between small towns in the area? To larger centres like Perugia and Sienna? Any tips for living economically? Are we likely to perish from the cold in an old stone house heated by woodstove
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Starlings,
One small question. You say you are renting a rustic farmhouse. Exactly how far is it from the village and what is the road like? I'd worry about you being stuck out of town and having to bicycle in the rain on rutted roads to get provisions. Jeanne
Posts: 423 | Location: Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: 07 March 2003
Thanks Jeanne- we are 5 mins walk from town with provisions, so should be OK for the basics. We can stay home and write on rainy days, unless that means staying home for weeks at a time Good for productivity maybe, but not so good for my sanity...
Regarding whether you will freeze in a house with a woodstove during the winter...it depends on how efficient the woodstove is, and whether it's connected to radiators or if the house has central heating to supplement the stove.
I have a small 2-story stone house just outside of Todi, and had guests renting it in Feb and March this year. This winter was very cold (with snow), and even with a woodstove in the living room, they needed the central heating to keep the house livable (and they were from England so they're used to cold damp winters). We all had a nasty surprise when we found out that the gas for the central heating was costing about 350 euros/month (my guests used 35 to 40 units of gas per month to supplement the woodstove -- 1 unit equals ~4 liters). Of course the house had been closed up since November and so the stones had formed a cold sink, but I think you should plan on wearing sweaters/coats inside even if the woodstove is quite efficient. If the house has central heating, plan on a hefty gas bill.
I've been in the area in Nov, Dec, and April. Nov and Dec have been cool/cold with some sun and some rain and fog. Some days I needed only a coat or heavy sweater; on others I needed my coat, scarf, and gloves.
As for transportation, some areas have quite good transportation, while others are spotty. I was only able to find one bus a day between Todi and Orvieto (there must be more, but I haven't been able to find a schedule for any), but between the larger towns there are plenty of buses and good train service. The Umbrian train runs frequently between Todi and Perugia, and there are local buses to Deruta and other towns in the area. And of course, the FS trains run regularly through Orvieto (only an hour to Rome or a little over an hour to Florence).
The Umbrians are reserved but kind and very generous.And even in the rain or fog, it's delightful to wander the old hilltowns and enjoy the churches and museums without the crush of summer tourists. And you can't beat a bowl of good Umbrian pappardale cinghiale on a cold winter's night, with a little Sagrantino!
Lyn
Posts: 60 | Location: Boulder, CO USA | Registered: 15 October 2003
Thanks Lyn-- this is just the sort of info we are looking for... helps to get our expectations in line.
We live in a damp, cold and windy place, so are used to that (temp today around 3c with fog and a light drizzle) but of course our central heating keeps things at a comfy 20c indoors. There is no central heating in our rented house in Umbria-- just two woodstoves-- so this will be something of a challenge. Need to get our woolies out... brrrrr
The area is cold. Much of it depends on exactly where your house is: how high up on its hill, facing which direction. Umbria and most of central Italy, like most mountainous areas, is notorious for microclimates. Unfortunately, as you know, I'll be of no help there, since my time in the area I lived in the cozy center of Todi, and in the fall, not winter.
With a house, you'll be cooking your own food most of the time surely; I hope that's a good thing.
The area "south of Lake Corbara between Orvieto and Todi" varies widely depending on exactly where and just how far south; in general, the farther south the better. If you're relying on bikes or walking for your shopping, I hope you're within 2 or 3 km of some kind of real town, like Montecchio or Avigliano. The other hamlets in the area (Asproli, for example) are often not much at all, a tiny alimentari if that.
Activities, you'll be on your own resources, especially in winter. I hope that's a good thing, too. Amusingly, the most famous single activity in the approximate area you mention — the Corbara road between Todi and Orvieto — is illegal: I hope you don't have that road right in your front yard.
Very hard, again, to say anything about transportation, which depends enormously on exactly where you are; think of your bicycles, and the occasional bus, as feeders into the rail system. "The occasional bus" means the bus out of the hamlets in the morning, around 7 am, and back around 3 pm: sometimes one more bus if the town is bigger. These buses serve to get the kids to and from school, and stop everywhere, with very slow, circuitous routes. The train lines, as you know, are the national line to the W, which doesn't take you to much of Umbria: you'll wind up seeing Tuscany and the Lazio; and to the E, slower, that connect you easily to Todi, Terni, and Perugia, and from there, less easily, to all of Umbria. I suspect you'll be seeing a lot of Terni, which for one thing is the nearest all-round good shopping (far better than Todi or Amelia, and better even than Orvieto). For day-to-day life, Terni is a more useful place, especially to a nondriver, than Perugia: it's flat and concentrated; Perugia is a hilly maze scattered all over the landscape, where you walk farther than you want to because things are always on the other side of a ravine.
It will rain during your stay: that's what November thru March is for; be prepared to be productive. I hope by the way that you're planning, when you get back, on putting your experiences online, either here or on your own site: as you can see, it's valuable information.
Amusingly, the most famous single activity in the approximate area you mention — the Corbara road between Todi and Orvieto — is illegal: I hope you don't have that road right in your front yard.
Bill, you're being tantalising again! Please tell more...
Jonathan
Posts: 2975 | Location: Stroud, UK | Registered: 18 November 2001
Amusingly, the most famous single activity in the approximate area you mention — the Corbara road between Todi and Orvieto — is illegal: I hope you don't have that road right in your front yard.
I read about the prostitution along this route--is that what you mean? And why there, in particular? And even in cold and drizzle? No, we won't be participating...
Jonathan, I surely must've mentioned it before? and it's scarcely a secret: think fishnets and exploited Nigerian girls, poor things. One hot memorable day back in my salad days when shirtless Boobykins hadn't decrepited to my current condition yet, and before I knew about the road, it took three slow cars asking me if I wanted a lift, for me to tumble to what they thought I was selling. (On another occasion I had an amusing little chat with some guy out there who was.)
Originally posted by Bill Thayer: With a house, you'll be cooking your own food most of the time surely; I hope that's a good thing.
A very good thing... as long as we can access groceries. We are doing this on a shoestring (explaining the dead of winter travel and off-the-beaten-track location, so home cooking is the order of the day).
quote:
I suspect you'll be seeing a lot of Terni, which for one thing is the nearest all-round good shopping (far better than Todi or Amelia, and better even than Orvieto). For day-to-day life, Terni is a more useful place, especially to a nondriver...
I have read a lot of negative stuff about Terni-- bleak, industrial...enough to make me want to avoid it, but as you say, it may be a practical matter.
quote:
I hope by the way that you're planning, when you get back, on putting your experiences online, either here or on your own site: as you can see, it's valuable information.
Absolutely: we will be blogging, in all likelihood, and I will repay the debt I owe to you ST folks.
Thanks to all for the enlightenment: being essentially an innocent soul at heart, I really hadn't realized... Actually I knew about the Siena - Grossetto road (one of theplot strands in the excellent novel A Party in San Niccolo' which has been mentioned on the boards), but not this one!
Jonathan
Posts: 2975 | Location: Stroud, UK | Registered: 18 November 2001
You are going to be cold! If you don't pay for electricity perhaps a space heater and an electric blanket would be a good investment when you arrive. I hope you are within walking distance of a bar to get some morning-get-warm cafe. We were snowed in this last Feb in Umbria, but I hear it was a bit out of the ordinary. Definitely bring woolly slippers - those floors are very cold - even with central heat.
Posts: 179 | Location: Near Death Valley, CA | Registered: 07 October 2004
Terni itself, downtown, is actually rather nice. It's a lively university town, lots of bookstores, even some foreign-language books. It's very short on good restaurants — not one, apparently, in town, although I had an OK meal there once, and a marginal one another time (different restaurants), and many OK snack-type suppers at a third (which on my last trip last year I noticed has gone belly-up alas). There's plenty of food shopping including specialty food stores; clothes, opticians, film developers, at least one department store, etc. There's also a few OK churches, the Roman amphitheater, sort-of.
What's not nice about Terni is the horrific welter of congested roads around it; and, in summer, the heat. The conca Ternana (the Terni basin) is a place to stay out of, yet you have to cross it to get into Terni. By train it's quite painless, though; so for practical purposes, Terni is not a place to stay away from, on the contrary, from where you are, it's better than the (deservedly) more touristed Perugia.
Oh, and make sure that the owner has provided at least one indoor clothes drying rack (or more!) if there isn't a dryer at the house(most houses only have a washing machine). I remember hanging sheets and towels all over the bathroom to get them to dry when the rain/fog wouldn't quit in April last year. Laundry should dry nicely in front the woodstove!
If you have room in your luggage, a hot water bottle might be nice for warming up the bed before retiring for the night. Also, since electricity is expensive in Italy, most lamps don't take more than 40-60 watt bulbs, so if you like to read (or write) a lot, maybe consider a booklight or two.
If you find you need to do a large shopping trip, or need to get some large items (like a space heater), and want to rent a car for just a day or two, there's a locally owned car rental office in Todi, and there's a Hertz office across the street from the train station in Orvieto. I don't know whether you're closer to Orvieto or Todi, or some other "largish" town.
Lyn
Posts: 60 | Location: Boulder, CO USA | Registered: 15 October 2003
Just to add my two cwnts worth. I stayed in Todi last January February. It was cold but I did love the area. I also had no car and found the public transit very manageable except for the Todi-Orvieto route. There is only one bus. It leaves Todi at 5 AM and returns at about 3 Pm. I don't remember the times going the other way. I was very pleasantly surprised by Terni, the birthplace of St. Valentine. There was a wonderful energy and vitality to the town centre and was very happy I spent time there. It was a nice break from the ancient cities.
I am an avid biker, having cycled Tuscany, and Langedouc in France as well as doing about 100kms a week in Calgary and was very happy I decided to hike in Umbria. The hills are steeper than Tuscany and one approach to Todi is more than an 18% grade!
If you are prepared I am sure all can be surmounted. Just wanted to give you a heads up and wish you well.
Posts: 145 | Location: Calgary.Alberta | Registered: 19 November 2002
Sorry, if this is an inappropriate segue I'm biking in Tuscany next month and note that Tim from Calgary has biked in Tuscany. Tim - I bike in Calgary also and Ireland. Any words of advice on the biking in Tuscany? Thanks.
There is no central heating in our rented house in Umbria-- just two woodstoves-- so this will be something of a challenge. Need to get our woolies out... brrrrr
Did you discuss the heating problem with the people renting you the house? Hardly anyone actually lives in Umbria anymore without central heating. Your landlord might believe that you are used to cold, because you come from a cold/damp country but might not realise that you will be used to far warmer indoor conditions than we are.
I keep 20 centigrades inside my house and still some people find it cold sometimes. Two woodstoves sounds like hell to me. Stoves need attendance. You will have to walk around the house in your coats in the morning until your stoves get going. Have you considered showering in an icy cold bathroom? And how about your finger tips while writing? Below 19 centigrades one gets freezing if sitting in an office and I doubt you can reach that with stoves unless they are Aga, which I doubt
You landlord has to provide alternative heating, with electrical being the worse option, not only beacause it's expensive but because it is inefficient.
Of course I am assuming you are renting, but if you cannot pester the landlord for other reasons, then your best option is to get a paraffine stove. There is now a new type that is potent, quick, safe and does not stink. I am talking about this stuff http://www.zibro.com/Italy/itContentpages/itKamin.htm
If you are still in time, cancel this rental and get one with appropriate heating situation. The fact that the house has no central heating makes me think that it has not been recently renovated, so you might have draft from the windows as well. Sorry if I sound too negative, but I am from here and I have seen plenty old farmhouses and heard plenty stories about cold winters!
I could not live with the cold in my Umbrian house and ended up having to install heating, for which I pay 2000 euro per year for gas to keep my house at 18 C. When people come over I light the stoves and turn it up to 20 C. Still, there comes a period when people won't come to my house for a meal. One woman wore a fur hat and coat to the table. Stone houses are just cold when it is cold and damp and that describes Umbrian winters. Frankly, I think this farmhouse will be like camping in a cave. People do do that, but not usually for so long. This is going to be more of a problem than those poor ole working girls.
Well. This is all rather sobering and will require some further investigation on our part. Thanks so much for the advice. Happy to hear anything else you have to offer on the area.
Topic Closed
). It's just the two of us, no kids. We like the idea of immersion in a small village but have larger-town needs like food variety. We will be using some of our time for writing and photography. 
Good for productivity maybe, but not so good for my sanity...
