This post is from GoldenGate - I started a new thread for this wine discussion ======================================================== Pauline/David, Here is the list taken from Gambero Rosso's 2001 Edition. There are many more great ones I'm sure, but I had to stop somewhere. Most of these are in Tuscany and Piedmont. I also included my short list at the bottom: TUSCANY Bolgheri: Tenuta San Guido - Bolgheri (Home of Sassicaia, thought to be the best wine in Italy by some. Don't know about that, I just know it tastes great to me). Le Macchiole Tenuta Dell Ornellaia
Barbarino Val D'Elsa: Isole E Olena (I have had some good Chianti from here) Casa Emma
Castellina in Chianti: Casello Di Fonterutoli La Burncaia
Castellina Marittima: Castello Del Terriccio
Castelnuovo Berardenga: Fattoria di Felsina
Firenze: Marchesi Antinori (had some great Chianti from here as well) Tenute Ambrogio
Gaiole in Chianti: Castello di Ama Barone Ricasoli Riecine
This reply is from David. I moved it to this new thread. ============================================== Thanks, Tom, for that. I love the Gambero Rosso, but it's so heavy to schlepp around. We're going to be staying almost "around the corner" from the Castello di Ama. Hopefully we'll visit there as well as some other producers in the Chianti Classico region.
On our last trip, we hung out in Southern Tuscany and got a good taste for Brunello and Vino Nobile. Had the totally fantastic 1990 Brunello "Poggio al Vento" made by Col d'Orcia -- a splurge but well worth it. Also some terrific Vini Nobili produced by both Caparzo and Lisini.
My unsolicited feeling about Super Tuscans? Although many of the Super Tuscans are outstanding, they are hybrids -- insofar as they mix Sangiovese with things like Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot -- they sometimes mimic Bordeaux-ishness. When I'm in Tuscany I want to have wine that's really native there -- that only they do -- wines that are at least 80% or 90% Sangiovese. So Super Tuscans tend not to be on my list of gotta haves. Although if you served me some of that Sassicaia, you'd still be my friend instantly
We found that in most restaurants, the wine mark-up is minimal -- 10 - 20% perhaps, not like in the US. But good Italian wine ain't cheap these days, so you'll still be spending decent money for the well-known producers and vintages. But at least you don't feel like you're being taken advantage of like in the US when the mark-up can be as much as 200% to even 300% from the store price.
David
Posts: 26609 | Location: Santa Fe, NM | Registered: 15 June 2001
Great listing of wineries! We did a bit of visiting and tasting in the Chianti and Montalcino areas, primarily using Carla Compalbo's book as a resource, along with my sister's bulging files. With my uneducated palate, I'm just as appreciative of the plonk aged in cement as a 93 Brunello, I'm embaressed to report. For most places (except for the largest or the enotecas), call ahead to make an appointment. We hadn't done as much calling ahead when we went to Montalcino, so missed out on some places. Met a funny old man outside Montalcino sitting on a chair by the road with his chickens, who turned out to be Baricci himself. (Boohoo, no tastings!)Here are some of the places we especially enjoyed visiting.
Chianti-
Casa Emma: We visited Casa Emma (just outside San Donato), and tasted several bottles. Liked the 1997 Riserva we had sampled from a store, but the winery was out of those, something we experienced at other places whose popular vintages have sold well. The 98 was also good. Pretty tasting room, the kids enjoyed going down to the winery rooms. Castello Di Volpaia: Now, this is a journey well worth taking. We drove around Radda three times in the rain before we found the tiny turnoff outside town that eventually leads over hill and dale up to Volpaia. Gorgeous old hilltown, where many of the stone buildings have been filled with the winery equipment. Kind and patient lady in the tasting room. Since we were the only lunatics insane enough to drive up in the rain, we had a lovely tasting. They make some interesting wines beyond Chianti, and I do love the 97 Riserva. The kids were delighted to taste the wonderful honeys, vinegars and oils. Exercised that poor Mastercard. Isole E Olena: Beautiful place outside Barberino, a cute little hilltown with some simple resturaunts and a gelato store in the lower portion. They only have their Vin Santo for tasting at this time. Nice people.
Monsanto: Well, we tried. Couldn't find the damn place. If anyone sees that sigm, please let me know! Divorce almost ensued.
Enotecas- went to the large one in Castellina that primarily showcases the La Castellina products, which are fine. The 97 Riserva is a good buy.
Montalcino-
Fattoria Del Barbi: Off main road from Montalcino. Gorgeous tasting room with lots of informative printouts about their products, and what looked and smelled like a nice restaurant. We did some tasting, although didn't have time for the guided tasting and tour. (You need to book ahead for this). Bought some 95 Brunello.
Biondi-Santi- Wanted to get here, but the estate seems to be under lots of construction.
Enoteca La Fortezza- This is the big enoteca in the fabulous Montalcino Fortezza. Great climb up to the ramparts, for those who aren't vertigo sissies like me. We did a lot of tasting here, and liked the Poggio Antico, Barbi, Caparzo, and Fuligni. Prices here are pretty good.
Posts: 8241 | Location: Newton (outside Boston), MA | Registered: 17 June 2001
Thanks for the report. Sounds like you had a great time. As we'll be in Chianti next month, we might do some of the same -- like go to Volpaia and try to find Monsanto. Glad your marriage is still in tact.
David
Posts: 4760 | Location: New York City | Registered: 15 June 2001
We almost got divorced over that turnoff to Volpaia!! We wanted to do the hike to Volpaia but didn't have enough time to make it for lunch if we started in Radda, so we wanted to park at the bottom of the road to Volpaia and start there. We found that intersection east of town, but the map said to take a left and that didn't work. Neither did any of the other options, until we saw the road where you take a right and then it swings around left under the bridge. This one totally got to us.
Had a similar situation in Montepulciano where there is that 5 way intersection just before the town and we wanted to go around the town to the church behind and we drove down every possible road for mile looking for it - until we tried the unlikely little road that was it!! This one we were laughing the whole time.
Driving and navigating can test the best relationships!! It found it hard navigating from the maps on our first trip - I am much better at it now - but turnoffs still become apparent only after you are passed them. And Steve says that in Italy whenever he misses a turn and then pulls in somewhere to just turn around, another car is right on our tail turning into the obscure little turn around place we picked.
Posts: 26609 | Location: Santa Fe, NM | Registered: 15 June 2001
Does anyone know how many bottles one can legally bring back with them? Is it 2 bottles?
David, I knew you'd be a purist It is funny that you mentioned the bordeaux-ishness of the Super Tuscans. I was introduced to Sassicaia a few years ago by some Italian friends who live in Montreal. They consider it one of the best, if not the best italian wines available. They are hardcore Italians and wouldn't dream of walking into a French resturant or drinking French wine (both of which I enjoy).
I did a little research on the web after having it a few times and was very happy to inform them that Sassicaia was "crafted along Bordeaux lines".
At any rate, I love the wine, and would drink it no matter where I could get it, but won't pay $150 a bottle for it. How much is a really great "3 Glass" bottle of wine in Italy anyway? Thanks, Tom
Posts: 268 | Location: San Rafael, CA | Registered: 10 July 2001
On the question of how much wine you can bring home, Here's a website that confused me more than educated me. http://www.customs.ustreas.gov/travel/know.htm#Alcoholic%20Beverages I THINK you can bring home one liter without paying duty on it. More than one, you need to pay duty. There isn't a limit on how much you can bring for personal use; but I suspect a few questions would be raised if you arrived with a few padded trunks full of Brunello!
We brought home 6 bottles, expecting to pay duty on some. However, the customs person in Boston told us we didn't need to, and just waved us through even though we told him we had the 6 bottles. Go figure.
Posts: 8241 | Location: Newton (outside Boston), MA | Registered: 17 June 2001
I've had similar experiences to Amy, in New York however, with customs officials waving me thru with 6 bottles of wine and not having to pay any duty on them. Furthermore, I have some friends who routinely go to France and Italy and bring back bottles and bottles and bottles of wine. They say that the customs officials don't know from wine. My friends will be bringing in some very expensive vintages, they'll tell the customs officials that they're not worth so much, and the duty they pay is minimal ($2 a bottle, I'm remembering, but I might be wrong on that one). So I'm not sure about the limit (number of bottles) you can bring in for personal consumption. My friends seem to have brought a lot in.
Tom, as far as finding a nice "3 Bicchieri" bottle of wine for a good price........ Well we got a very good '93 Caparzo "La Casa" Brunello two years ago and I think that the price was something in the $40 range(???) -- although don't quote me -- I often forget details like that and it could possibly be significantly higher. I'll try to check later for you. My recommendation is to do some research here in the US before you go -- see what you can find here -- see if you can find some 3 Bicchieri vintages here and see what they cost. Then go there and try to compare. My experience is that Italian prices are fair -- cheaper in Italy, certainly, than here. However I wouldn't say we found any 3 Bicchieri wine for bargain basement prices. They know it's good and they price it accordingly. Gambero Rosso is widely read, of course!
David
Posts: 4760 | Location: New York City | Registered: 15 June 2001
I'll do a recap when we get back. Generally do you need to make an appointment to got to most wineries in Italy? Is there typically a tasting fee? Thanks, Tom
Posts: 268 | Location: San Rafael, CA | Registered: 10 July 2001
I've gone to very few, but from what I understand it's good to call ahead and let them know that you're coming. With the largest wineries, especially in the summer, it's not necessary because they get so much traffic. But with all but the very largest, I think it'd be best to call ahead. Tasting fees? Dunno!
David
Posts: 4760 | Location: New York City | Registered: 15 June 2001
Our experiences are in line with what David said- for all but the largest wineries, you do need to call ahead. Remember how tiny most of these operations are, compared to the California wineries. Everyone we called was very pleasant, and some spoke a bit of english to match our bit of italian. I still laugh when I think about one winery owner in Montalcino, who looked old enough to be able to tell us about the fall of Siena. He was having a lovely morning sitting in a lawn chair by the side of the road with his chickens, and told us to go to the enoteca at the Fortezza for a tasting instead.
Posts: 8241 | Location: Newton (outside Boston), MA | Registered: 17 June 2001
I loved Amy's description about looking for Monsanto!
It was up one of those white road mountain trails but what a view!
We were fifteen minutes away in Poggibionsi but took 45 minutes to find it. The gate was locked and the winery had only the smallest and most discrete sign. We rang the bell, feeling ever the obnoxious tourists, but it was worth it.
We tasted some wonderful '97's and brought home 4 bottles at a quarter of the cost in New Jersey.
We walked around the grounds after our tasting and had a wonderful view of the valley before us.
I will definitely visit more wineries on our next trip though I do need to study up on the nomenclature. I have not figured out the hierarchy like the French have provided.
By the way- the enoteca at the fortress in Siean was a treat.
700 bottles by the glass for 1500 to 3000 lira each! Spectacular! That alone was worth the visit. Very accessible and enjoyable. Even my 8 year old daughter wanted to sip!
The Carla Capalbo book (The Food Lover's Companion to Tuscany) lists Pitti Gola and Cantina with the address Piazza Pitti, 16 (different number than Amy has). This is the only wine store she lists, so it is probably a good one!
Faith Willinger (Eating in Italy) lists: Alessi, Via dell'Oche 27 (enoteca) - go downstairs, behind all the candy. Best selection in Florence. Vino e Olio, Via de' Serragli 29 - Sat. afternoon wine tastings
Posts: 26609 | Location: Santa Fe, NM | Registered: 15 June 2001
I'm bringing up this thread again because I have a question after reading so many wonderful trip reports and hearing about some of the tours you have taken at various vineyards. I guess I was surprised to hear about fees for tours. I assumed that the tours and tastings were free; however, it was probably assumed that you would buy some of the wine while there. Perhaps some vineyards have resorted to charging a fee because people would taste and then not buy. Anyway, I'm just wondering if all vineyards charge a fee or just some so that we can be prepared.
I e-mailed Castello de Volpaia and received a nice reply with their price list (which is based on the number of people in the group). For the 2 of us it will be Lit.40.000 per person, which is ok with us since so many of you say it is a great place to tour.
And what about the enotecas? Do most charge by the glass to taste or is it a set fee?
Thanks for any information.
Posts: 135 | Location: Wisconsin | Registered: 18 June 2001
We were not charged on 3 winery tours/tastings which were to Meleto, Fonterutoli and Monte Vertine. In fact, after the tour and tasting (in their beautiful castle) at Meleto, the shop was locked up tight for their lunch and our guide didn't even have a key. We were a party of 15 and the only people there that morning. We learned alot about timing and Italian commerce that day. I'm sure we would have bought several cases having liked the wine so much. The tasting took quite some time and we could have interupted it to shop before they closed had we known. So...keep an eye on the time.
BTW - I recommend all 3 places and their wines. Have fun and don't be shy about not finishing each taste. I haven't mastered spitting and 6 or 7 tastes, especially in the morning, is alot.
Posts: 370 | Location: Santarcangelo di Romagna, Italy | Registered: 08 July 2001
We were never more than four people ..... never had an appointment.... and were there in August...There was never a question about a charge...... At Tenuta Di Sesta just outside of Montalcino we felt like we woke the owner from his nap but he was as cordial and nice as could be ... opened up, showed us around and gave us a tour and tastings ... we never felt pressured to buy nything ....but we did buy his Brunello (1995). As I mentioned in my trip report the best experience we had was at Rocca Di Montegrossi in Monti in Chianti (no Joke!) five miles south of Gaiole ....... this new facility (the vinyard is 60 years old, just the facility is new)is just magnificent and the owner, again was as nice as could be .... we got a complete tour and tasting (three of us) and made a friend with no pressure to buy ....... but we bought a lot (Reserva and Geremia). This was by far the best winery stop we made on the trip. To find this facility at the end of one of the steepest white roads in Italy was an adventure in itself.
Posts: 122 | Location: New York | Registered: 17 June 2001
Jean Most States have laws against shipping wine, and so none of the wineries I went to would do it ..... one told me that he uses Olive Oil boxes to send his wine to the magazines and for other publicity purposes inorder to circumvent the laws.... so I wouldn't count on shipping anything home. I breezed through customs in NY with 12 declared bottles with not even a look see. Have fun
Posts: 122 | Location: New York | Registered: 17 June 2001
I'm not sure about fees for touring and tasting. I think that it varies, but for the most part, I'd imagine that the stores at the individual producers wouldn't charge you to taste -- although I might be wrong about that. My dilemma, when tasting wine, always comes with tasting and not buying and then feeling guilty. This happened at Casa Emma -- I knew I wasn't going to buy anything when I walked in -- I just wanted to taste, and as usual, I felt awkward just thanking the guy and walking out without buying anything, but I'd assume that it's perfectly acceptable and par for the course. But that's just me personally. If I did it more, I'd probably be able to get over myself and walk into tasting rooms and taste as much as I want without feeling like I have to buy.
At the Enoteca in the fortezza in Montalcino, they charge for tasting -- I'd guess that most enoteche do as well. but again, I'm not sure about that. (I'm getting confused with some wineries in Napa where they do charge specific prices for tasting specific [usually expensive] wines -- I think they did that at Mondavi.)
We really enjoyed Volpaia -- maybe the price is cheaper in the Fall because we paid £28,000 each for the tour and tasting. No matter -- it was worth it. The tour was very interesting and the tasting consisted of 5 wines (all of which were good and 2 of which were excellent!) plus cheese, crackers, a tomato salsa-ish thing (which, incidentally, was weird to eat with some of the wines -- no matter, I ate it anyway) that was made by Christine, the guide. She might be doing tours when you're there too -- she's Swiss and very sweet.
David
Posts: 4760 | Location: New York City | Registered: 15 June 2001
David, Christine is the one who responded to my e-mail. The reason for the difference in cost might be the number of people on the tour. If only 2 people tour, the cost is Lit. 40.000 per person. If there are 3 to 8 people, it is 28.000 per person. And I totally agree with you about the guilt feelings of tasting and bolting. I know I'll feel obligated to buy something.
We're excited about trying several of the suggested spots you have mentioned. Thanks for the tips!
Posts: 135 | Location: Wisconsin | Registered: 18 June 2001
Topic Closed
It is funny that you mentioned the bordeaux-ishness of the Super Tuscans. I was introduced to Sassicaia a few years ago by some Italian friends who live in Montreal. They consider it one of the best, if not the best italian wines available. They are hardcore Italians and wouldn't dream of walking into a French resturant or drinking French wine (both of which I enjoy). 
This happened at Casa Emma -- I knew I wasn't going to buy anything when I walked in -- I just wanted to taste, and as usual, I felt awkward just thanking the guy and walking out without buying anything, but I'd assume that it's perfectly acceptable and par for the course. But that's just me personally. If I did it more, I'd probably be able to get over myself and walk into tasting rooms and taste as much as I want without feeling like I have to buy.