Had to share this. My husband was stranded in an airport on Friday and struck up a conversation with a couple who were enroute home from their first trip to Italy. Asked how they liked it, the answer was "not much." It seems the husband was upset that he could not watch basketball games. He also opined that there were too many churches included on their 10 day tour (Rome, Florence, Milan, Pisa, Lucca, Sienna and more). The bacon at breakfast wasn't cooked enough and the food was bad in general plus they did not know what they were eating most of the time. One day was spent at the Vatican when what they really wanted to see was the Colosseum. Too much time was spent on the bus and in churches.
They hated their guide but gave her a good review because they did not want to cause her to lose her job.

Really, it was sad to hear how miserable they were with the whole trip and their obvious disappointment. First of all, it seems they did no planning whatsoever on their own. Simply got on the tour and expected to be entertained. SEcondly, how can anyone expect to see that many cities in 10 days? This was there first trip to Europe and will probably be their last. It made me think that it is hard to begin foreign travel in your 60's if you've never done it before. They were not prepared for the culture shock (no ESPN for example). I am sorry to see folks come back from what was probably intended as a trip of a lifetime and be so disappointed.

So much I could say, but I know it would only be preaching to the choir, right? The worst part is that I know these people aren't alone and that's just sad.

I agree that cultural myopia is sad, but just think of how crowded places would be if they all loved it as much as we do!

They expect bacon? I am never going to be that passive in my planning even when I'm in my 90's. 60's that is only 10 years older than me.

It's supposed to be just like at home? RR

This reminds me a of a "Dear Abby" I read as a kid. The writer was complaining about the terrible table manners of the people he had seen in Europe - they didn't hold the silverware correctly in his view.

Dear Abby actually read him the riot act in a very polite way. It was wonderful.

There are a lot of people who expect the entire world to be just as it is at home... no diversity of culture and experience. Pretty sad.

Should have went to Bolgona if they wanted basketball.

Wait undercooked pork in Italy?

We all know this is common, very common.
When I went to Egypt last year to do a job on finishing I went 10 days ahead of my nile river tour to do somethings on my own, have time to spend on things that I thought needed time, and then joined a tour because of the price for the Nile Cruise via tour was unbeatable. There were many people in the group who had the same experience as the folks you mentioned. They hated the food, it was hot, why weren't the streets paved,why did the tour guide keep talking about those old piles of rocks or temples with no roofs, what was wrong with me I choose to walk rather than ride in carriage pulled by a abused animal, wasn't I afraid to go out on my own, they remained carping most of the time, why did I stay on the bus during the few day trips off boat and not visit the shops, how could I eat the food,and so on.
These people have the wrong idea of travel IMHO.
First it is not one big new shopping mall or outlet. Second my idea is to meet people, see how they live, see their history, try new foods etc., not find the next Mickey D's or Bazaar. 3rd you need to take the time to really see and look at items in museums, neighborhoods etc. not just rush on through hitting the high spots so to speak, and many people have little if any knowledge of art & design, the skills and crafts even their own American ones.
4. To travel IMHO you have to be somewhat flexible and many people think oh Egypt, Italy, France or where ever is a good idea but when they get there they find things so different that they can't adjust and so end up having a bad time. If you don't like Italian food skip Italy. It you don't like heat don't go to Egypt in September its a no brainer.

The weirdest I have heard, "Venice is so boring, there is nothing to do". What? RR

Some people should limit their foreign
travel experiences to Las Vegas. You can experience the whole world there!

quote:

Posted 27 April 2011 11:45 AM Hide Post
Some people should limit their foreign
travel experiences to Las Vegas. You can experience the whole world there!

Great Advice!

But the fact is that for every first time traveller(s) unhappy, and probably never intending to return, there are multiple times over those first timers whose eyes become brighter, the mind more inquisitive, coming out of the experience altogether sold on travel. So the two in the airport are entitled to their opinion, informed by their perceptions, and we know that they represent the exception to the rule.

They should have read the itinerary.. I am sure they were given one.

I remember my first breakfast in Rome - you know, the little package of toast thingies all dry and wrapped in cellophane. Thank goodness I didn't let that bother me...

I wish it was possible to like someones response. I have no real comment to add to this thread, I just want to "like" Doru's comment - alla Facebook style.

There's a perfect expression in Italian for this: "Mi sono cadute le braccia!" I throw my arms down (in disgust).

This brings to mind two long ago tours. On one my friend and I were in England and stopped for a few hours of "free" time. Most of the group wanted to go to the Disney store. I could not believe it!
The other tour was our first time in Europe and at the time, we thought it might be our only trip there. The tour group consisted of retired people the age that I am now. Much of the tour was spent on the bus (unfortunately) and when we arrived at a city/town, they began complaining about having to walk too far. My husband and I decided then and there that tours were not for us and that we needed to travel while we were both physically able to do so.

Tourists with too little information and false expectations winding up with unhappy experiences are nothing new. Still, it's sad.

One trying experience with another American in the Guatemalan Jungle in 1969 inspired my mother to come up with the family travel motto

"If you want things to be the way they are at home, stay home"

Do you think my brother or I dared to grouse about things when faced with that response? LOL

A lot of people don't really understand what the itinerary means until they live it. Sometimes that's a lack of experience, other times it's just how they relate to information and details.

As much as I have mixed feelings about Rick Steves at least least he helps more people to have reasonable amounts of information, preparation & expectations.

quote:

The weirdest I have heard, "Venice is so boring, there is nothing to do".

I will beat you with this one from a former acquaintance native of the Philippines:

"I did not like Venice, it is like Manila, there is water and it stinks."

The thing is, all nationalities do this particularly when faced with their first trip abroad.

Italians abroad are such a pain as nobody cooks as well as their mamas and they are happy if they find a foreign cook that can make decent pasta.


However I meet plenty people who are experiencing their first trip to Italy and absolutely adore it!

You are all so charitable.
I think people like that should not be given a passport.
They embarass their countries and clog up the Uffizi and the Louvre, not enjoying themselves and preventing us from enjoying.

Funny story--and a sad one. I've seen lots of tourists like this. Part of it is expectations and marketing. They think Italy is a land of jolly people who cook sort of like the Olive Garden. When they're confronted with the reality, well, it doesn't go well.

I've also noticed Italian-Americans doing something like that. In food, for example, it's nothing like what's sold as Italian in the U.S. Plus the old stories clash with what they see.

There are lots of reasons--big tour operators don't take their flock to the best places; cynicism on the part of the local restaurants who hustle people in and out with steam-table pasta. Just the nature of the zillion-location bus tour, as though the country is just something to "see" rather than experience. Add to that the seemingly millions of ways Americans are isolated from the rest of the world--using English measurements, etc. It's disorienting, unless they have an open mind.

Not the first time--I've bumped into people like that in airports about to board flights home. Pity our media doesn't do a better job of portraying people in other countries as people just like everyone else.

Sorry for the long post. A subject near to my heart....

There's a reason people refer to "Ugly Americans."

They hate everything they experience. They expect people to understand them when the speak English louder and use a foreign accent. They want wherever they are visiting to be exactly the same as back home.

I was fortunate enough to be stationed in Germany (well West Germany back then) from 1984 - 1987. I feel in love with Europe back then, and took advantage of my location to travel as much as possible. I was always amazed when I saw stupid "Ugly Americans" act as if they owned the world when they visited Europe.

Mike,

It isn't restricted to Americans. It happens with all nationalities.

I think that some people just don't travel well, a lot like guinness.

Gail

quote:

Originally posted by GailGP:
Mike,

It isn't restricted to Americans. It happens with all nationalities.

I think that some people just don't travel well, a lot like guinness.

Gail

This is true. I guess I notice the "ugly Americans" more because they embarrass me. However, when we went to the 2006 World Cup in Germany, we ran into a lot of "ugly English" when they came to Cologne for the England vs Sweden game.

quote:

I think people like that should not be given a passport.
They embarrass their countries

They should be required to take remedial class in traveling before they go on a second trip.

I remember walking across the Helsinki airport to get as far away as I could from some loud crude Americans who were fellow members of a tour hosted by the Finnish Foreign Trade Commission. I certainly did not want to be associated with them.

I have seen some good stuff. Generally, the Americans I've seen in Perugia try to fit in and look like they're enjoying themselves. But I've seen Asians, not sure which nationality, frown disapprovingly at everything.

Years ago I travelled with my wife's family, and my sister in law acted up. She complained about dinner times, about the funny little cars..everything. My in-laws once went on a tour to Sicily, and one older gent stood in the middle of an ancient amphitheater and sang "God Bless America.". The other tourist cheered. I'm sorry, but that's just impolite.

I bet that this thread will go on for a while..well longer...and that's because the people on this forum will not do such 'bad' things.
The fact that we are on this forum means that we are probably in the top 15-20% of the travelers that really know how to do it.
I personally avoid organized trips or cruises and spend a lot of time researching and booking accommodations ahead of time.
However, most people use travel just as another form of entertainment. They don't necessarily go as far as Europe, unless they are doing very well financially. Most just go into 'sardine' style campgrounds,chain hotels and yes, Las Vegas...or 'organized' trips. The average level of entertainment is just not very high. This is probably the same for Americans, Asians or even Europeans living in their 'civilized' continent.
Should we judge them? Probably not.

Funny thing....on this current trip, we could always tell who was an American! Some don't get the concept of being a 'guest' in another country and I am proud to be an American!

quote:

Funny thing....on this current trip, we could always tell who was an American!

I think that's because it's easier to sniff out our own no matter what behavior is being displayed, at least it is for me. And I find that I feel...and probably appear....foolish if I try to "blend" in. I am what I am, and that's not a bad thing...usually.

This thread - I think at least the OP and I - does not condemn a given nationality.
What I deplore is that some people spend the time and money to travel far yet refuse to open their eyes. Americans do not have a monopoly on this voluntary blindness.

Morning folks, catching up here. I think Americana summed this up nicely in that what bothers us (what we can't understand) is "that some people spend the time and money to travel far yet refuse to open their eyes."

That said, the national/ethnic stereotyping makes me uncomfortable. It's why we have this rule:

quote:

Postings that the moderators determine to be promoting national, ethnic, or religious stereotyping will be edited or deleted without notice.

I think many of us have witnessed this behavior (I have a story from when we were in Taormina) but let's try not to "condemn" entire countries because of it. As Americana also said, "Americans do not have a monopoly on this voluntary blindness." I think that could be said of any country and I think the opposite is true too, no one group has a monopoly on complete openness either.

Oh, and like Tony, I love Doru's response. I think it's worth repeating:

quote:

But the fact is that for every first time traveller(s) unhappy, and probably never intending to return, there are multiple times over those first timers whose eyes become brighter, the mind more inquisitive, coming out of the experience altogether sold on travel. So the two in the airport are entitled to their opinion, informed by their perceptions, and we know that they represent the exception to the rule.

As noted in another thread, there is no rule that says you have to love every city/country that you visit and it is not a disparagement of you or yours if someone doesn't like something you like (or love).

I am clearly an American tourist no matter how hard I try. There are places I would die to revisit and there are places you will never see me again (and, yes, some of the latter are in Italy). I do my best with the language and the etiquette of the place I am in, but sometimes I'm ignorant and sometimes I'm just bewildered.

During my years as a mountain climber, there were certain nationalities that you avoided since they did everything from stealing gear to endangering other climbers on the slopes.

On other normal trips, even with recognizing cultural differences, body odor is still body odor; poor sanitation in toilets and kitchens will still make you sick; and being targets of pickpockets on public transportation might put a dent in your spending. All of these things might make for great stories sometime down the road, but are seldom the most fun in the moment.

For the folks described in the original post, they did not set out to have a bad time. They did not spend their money so that they could be unhappy at the end of the trip. Their negative interpretation of what they saw and did while away is their learning experience and will guide their future travels. I doubt if any of us travel the same way today that we did on our first European vacation, so time for life to go on.

Over the years Art and I have traveled to many countries. For our trips to Greece and Turkey we did take organized tours but had such great experiences with them - exceptional tour guides make all the difference in the world, and both of these tours had small groups - maybe 16 or so on a large 40+person bus, so that made a difference too.

Our first trip to Italy was also a group tour, and altho we had read about Italy and the places we'd visit, until you've actually been there it's all rather dry - which is to say I thought I was prepared, but I learned so much more from our tour guide than I ever could have learned from a tour book. On our tour of Italy we too visited a lot of cities - from Sorrento in the south all the way up to Venice and Lake Como. For me it was sort of like a sneak preview - I saw so many places I wanted to explore further, and I felt a little more comfortable planning our next, independent tour of Italy - and still haven't explored all the places I want/need to see!

Yes, we had some crazy people on that particular tour - it was a full bus - some people seemed surprised that we had pasta every day. Others ignored the tour guide when she launched into yet another 'history lesson' - but that was the part we loved! We went expecting to love Italy, and we did. What expectations others had I don't know, but I'm sure there were some in our group who never 'got it' - and you just can't help but feel sorry for them. (It's easier to feel sorry for them now that the tour is over and we don't have to listen to them whine and complain, or wait for them each morning when it's time to go!)

When I was still working a co-worker was planning a trip to Italy. I tried to ask him about his plans, and would have been happy to make suggestions, but he never asked, even knowing that we had traveled there quite a bit. In the end he came back and the one comment I remember from him was that no, they didn't like Florence, it was dirty.

Our Blog: Art and Barb Live(d) in Italy

Some of what they describe is pure laziness and I am sure is not just an american thing.If they had given even a casual look at their itinerary they would realize they would be in the bus most of the trip!

Re "I doubt any of us travel the same way as our first trip", well I do more or less. Our first trip was self planned,three weeks and three basic destinations. It's easier to make reservations now and no travelers checks that has changed. RR

Kim, thanks for the gentle reminder.

I don't know if profpeabody's husband had the chance to enlighten the poor frustrated couple in question by sharing his seasoned experience regarding more satisfying ways to travel, but I like the way Barb tried to do that good deed (unsuccessful though the attempt was). I also get a kick from sharing stories at airports with other travelers and comparing notes (especially the people you sort of meet at the departure gate and then see again at the terminal on the return flight) - and of course recommending to anyone willing to listen that they check out this website before their next trip.

The OP's comments about dissatisfaction at not being able to watch basketball made me remember this incident.

We rented a place in Southern Italy for my family and parents. They decided that my sister , her partner and their 3 kids would come out for the second week. The partner is a bit of a telly addict and immediately turned on the satellite system.

Ten minutes later I have this conversation (names changed to protect the guilty).

"Tim, something's wrong with the television - the sounds not right"
"Well Fred, it seems OK to me"
"Yea, but Spongebob's on, and I can't here what he's saying"
"Well, it's in Italian"
"Why?"
"Because we are in Italy, everything will be in Italian"
"Oh..... Oh look, the Simpsons is on later - at least I'll understand that"
"That will be in Italian as well"
"Oh no, I watch it all the time, it is always in English"

Now bear in mind this is a 30something educated person who holds down a responsible job.

American's certainly do not have a monopoly in being travel idiots.

TimW

I want to raise a linguistic point - somewhat tragic-comic - about the original post.
I know that I am most intolerant of utterances overheard in my native language (not English).
it invariably sounds the loudest and stupidest and the most vulgar, and while my mind can switch off at will a number of other languages, I can't switch off my native language. Drives me bonkers.

quote:

Originally posted by TimW:
The OP's comments about dissatisfaction at not being able to watch basketball made me remember this incident.

We rented a place in Southern Italy for my family and parents. They decided that my sister , her partner and their 3 kids would come out for the second week. The partner is a bit of a telly addict and immediately turned on the satellite system.

Ten minutes later I have this conversation (names changed to protect the guilty).

"Tim, something's wrong with the television - the sounds not right"
"Well Fred, it seems OK to me"
"Yea, but Spongebob's on, and I can't here what he's saying"
"Well, it's in Italian"
"Why?"
"Because we are in Italy, everything will be in Italian"
"Oh..... Oh look, the Simpsons is on later - at least I'll understand that"
"That will be in Italian as well"
"Oh no, I watch it all the time, it is always in English"

Now bear in mind this is a 30something educated person who holds down a responsible job.

American's certainly do not have a monopoly in being travel idiots.

TimW

Things like Star Trek are best. You can wonder why Scottie has the same accent that Chekov does

And speaking of stereotypes, I was enjoying a nice lunch on a patio in Volpia when a group took the next table and proceeded to talk very loudly, completely ignoring everyone else's comfort; another group of the same nationality proceeded to walk to the head of the cue in an airport boarding line and pushed their way in front of everyone and, lastly, while in line to board a boat in Greece a bunch did the same thing, just pushed noisily to the front of the line ahead of everyone else. Folks from this country are best avoided.

Now, they weren't "Ugly Americans" from the US, they were European. Can anyone guess from which country?

quote:

Things like Star Trek are best. You can wonder why Scottie has the same accent that Chekov does

Subtitles are a tough one.
OK intellectually we all accept we aren't home. But imagine hearing John Wayne say Buogiorno. Imagine a Frenchman hear Jean Gabin say "hi!". Just doesn't cut it.

quote:

Now, they weren't "Ugly Americans" from the US, they were European. Can anyone guess from which country?

Depends. Does this exercise go to support a nasty point about a country?

National stereotyping aside (anybody ever heard of "confirmation bias"?), I have to wonder why it is is so important to relentlessly compare "us" to other travelers and find them wanting. It's not as if "we" have discovered the cure for cancer or ended the war in Afghanistan. Somehow, I keep hearing Dana Carvey's voice saying "Aren't you special?"

I don't know about the others on this board, but I do some things "better" than other people and other things "worse." Too bad.

I spent some time trying to find a picture I took when we were living a year in Greve--but must have deleted it as it was so tacky. So..can't share the picture but can tell the story.

Where we were living also had some bed and breakfast rooms. Outside our little second floor porch was a tree that we enjoyed watching as the seasons changed. One day we woke up and tied to the tree with the strings stretching across to another building was a huge flag from the state of Georgia. Soon a very loud man who claimed to be a state legislature, speaking as if he were straight out of an old TV show (can't remember the name,) began extolling the virtues of Georgia in comparison with the country side around him then.

It was totally embarrassing as our landlords looked on in amazement and disbelief.

quote:

Originally posted by KT:
Somehow, I keep hearing Dana Carvey's voice saying "Aren't you special?"

I don't know about the others on this board, but I do some things "better" than other people and other things "worse." Too bad.

Yes we are special!

How many standard deviations from the mean does conduct need to be before it is deemed commentable? I never said they are stupid people or that they have no redeeming qualities.
Expecting no difference between a foreign country and home just seems lets say, closed minded.

It's ok when people Call me crazy for running marathons or never taking a "relaxing vacation"

Some of us don't understand how some people act, Example- I mentioned it before, a tourist loudly complaining, screaming actually, about the lack of specific dessert which she had at another restaurant. Like it was her God given right to have that exact cake at this restaurant and Now! RR

quote:

It isn't restricted to Americans. It happens with all nationalities.

So true. I was visiting a church once and a gentleman (a loose use of the term) stood up on a pew to take pictures using a flash (pictures were not allowed). An official came running over waving her arms and screaming in English to stop. The man just looked at her blankly as she went on and on. Finally, my daughter said: "He's NOT American; he doesn't speak English!"

I'm still waiting to hear from someone who has had no negative Italy experiences. Am I the only one? Granted, we've only visited three times but we have never been cheated, treated rudely, in fact we've always been treated very well. We have been approached by street venders trying to sell a Rolex or socks but never met a pick pocket. The worse thing that happened to me was a parking ticket last year in Sarzana and it was my fault. A street vender tried to tell me to buy a parking slip and I just ignored him. I can't believe I'm the only one with no bad experiences.

quote:

no negative Italy experiences

I haven't had any negative experiences!

Positive or negative experiences are something that happens "inside" us. What happens outside is just what happens.

In Bologna I was pickpocketed (the first and only time). I just chuckled to my wife that some little kid will be taking home a big 50 € prize. (Please note that my wife has a little more trouble keeping her "inside" and "outside" experiences separate!)

In 5T, a train strike meant that we couldn't leave and go to our next hotel. I called the hotel and told them, and enjoyed more time in 5T.

At checkout, a hotel manager in northeast Italy charged me for a 1-week package of room and meals in the hotel restaurant, and added on the cost of most of the meals. Didn't even realize what happened until on the plane halfway home. Didn't get mad at him; didn't declare that I'll never visit that town or hotel ever again (I have returned more than once); just made a mental note to keep better track of my receipts and have them handy when checking out.

etc., etc., etc.

To me, all of these events are just "different experiences" that are part of travel, domestic or international.

quote:

but never met a pick pocket.

I didn't either until my 8th and 9th trips.

I think because I hadn't been picked before made me a little complacent...and more vulnerable.

I was once fined on a train for forgetting to validate my ticket. Does that count? I was in a hurry, the train was about to leave and...well, you know. I did manage to talk the conductor down, though. She said she had to charge me something because she had just fined someone else in the same car.

quote:

Originally posted by Marlene:An official came running over waving her arms and screaming in English to stop. The man just looked at her blankly as she went on and on. Finally, my daughter said: "He's NOT American; he doesn't speak English!"

I dare guess the official may not have been an ignoramus who assumed that everybody with bad manners speaks English; the fact is that nowadays English is the lingua franca and represents the best bet to be understood by somebody who appears to be a traveller and not a local.

Me, Me!!

In five trips to Italy; the only negative experience I can remember ( and perhaps as I get older my memory has deleted any bad things!!)was a slightly grumpy desk clerk at the hotel in La Spezia.
He had probably worked all night, so as a shift worker myself, I can sympathise.
Sure: things may not always go the way I planned, or the people may not act the way I expect them to; but it sure makes for great travel stories in the end!
I was in the Doges Palace on my first trip to Venice; and a North American woman flopped down disconsolately on a bench beside me and said to her husband: "What city are we in, again?"

quote:

Originally posted by Americana in Parigi:
I want to raise a linguistic point - somewhat tragic-comic - about the original post.
I know that I am most intolerant of utterances overheard in my native language (not English).
it invariably sounds the loudest and stupidest and the most vulgar

AinP, I know that you know that I know that you are unique and special but, frankly, nihil novi sub sole: Josette, myself and all my friends who speak Romanian always think that when we speak it in non-Romanian environments we are the most loud (never stupid(!), maybe vulgar ) and become quite self-conscious. Ditto when we talk in public, particularly in a group, Hebrew.

I am most upset at Eugene Burdick and William Lederer who coined in the title of a book an expression that seems to have engraved itself in the consciousness of people.