First, thank you Pauline and all the wonderful posters on this board. You've provided me with a wealth of information in planning our second trip to Italy. We leave in 11 days for a 3 week trip: 3 days Cinque Terre, 1 week north of Lake Bolsena, 5 days Rome and 5 days in Venice. It's the week near Lake Bolsena that requires help. I picked this location specifically because of places I wanted to visit for day trips, but now my list is too long. Please provide any feedback that you see fit! 1) Civita de Bagnoregio* 2) Vitorchiano* would like to add another town, trying to decide between Viterbo, Vetralla or Civita Castellana 3) Pitigliano*, Sorano* and possibly Sovana 4) Todi* 5) Orvieto* 6) Montalcino, Sant' Antimo, San Quirco d' Orcia, Bagno Vignoni, Abbadia San Salvatore and Rocca d' Orcia - can't decide which of these are a must see and how many of them are possible to do in one day 7) Tarquinia - I'm not married to this one as it is a little far (* = a must on my list) Also, we will be in this area on June 2nd. Do any locals have information on which of these towns might have festive celebrations or parades on that day that our children would enjoy. Thanks in advance!
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A --little-- bit of help: Sorano shouldn't be a must on anyone's list; you may, like everybody else including myself, constantly, be confusing it with Sovana, which is where the extraordinary Etruscan stuff is. Sorano has a castle striking by its position of dominance over the town, but of no outstanding interest; otherwise the town and its remains are for specialists. You'll get a good idea of both from my diary, which includes photos of each; be sure to follow on to the next entry.
More helpfully maybe, you have 6 asterisks -- counting the one moved from Sorano to Sovana -- and 5 days: I'd cut Civita, which has got a lot of publicity from the Rick Steves video and elsewhere, so may well be crowded. It's a dry inhabitant-deserted tourist trap. Â Â Â (Mary Jane will have a more informed opinion, though.)
Do resist the temptation to cram Todi and Orvieto into a single day despite the map: it's a disservice to both. But if you absolutely must, make it a very long day, and do Todi in the daytime and Orvieto in the evening. Todi is dismal at night, Orvieto is rather lively, and the illuminated Duomo of the latter is worth any nighttime lights in Todi.
Similarly, resist the notion of cramming a mad dash thru Viterbo into a half-day with something else.
As a general gauge -- I'm interested mostly in old stones, but also with an eye for landscape and a ravenous stomach for food -- if I were taking a friend with similar tastes on a long trip with unlimited time, here's my time allotments (with the places I have NOT been to in parentheses):
Orvieto 5 days Pitigliano 4 days Viterbo 3-4 days Todi 3 days (Vetralla) 2-3 days Sovana 2-3 days (Tarquinia) 2-3 days Civita Castellana 2 days Sorano 1-2 days but see why in my diary; you'd probably want less (Vitorchiano) 1 day (Civita) 1/2 day
I omit your (6) because I've never so much as considered the area: my advice would not be good.
Thanks Bill! I've enjoyed your postings and website in the past several months and appreciate your input. I picked Sorano (and several other towns) from the black and white photographs in Norman Carver's "Italian Hilltowns". I wanted to visit Civita Bagnoregio since our last trip in 1999, but didn't make it, which is why it's on my list now. I've thought many times about taking it off (too touristy / rick steves) and maybe I will. Any other suggestions?
Yawelcome Denise! The seductive power of the photograph, well I know it. I've often toyed with the idea of taking two photos of the block on which I live: one would show it as perfectly lovely, the other one as a wretched dump. It could be done; which one would represent Truth?
As actual towns go, Pitigliano, and a lot of other towns, are more interesting and attractive than Sorano. I do also admit, though, that as towns go, Sovana is less photogenic than Sorano. The main difference is that Sovana is flattish, so no dramatic possibilities. Sovana is also smaller and less alive, although Sorano is not that alive either; but Sovana is now almost completely dependent on its dozens and dozens of atmospheric Etruscan tombs to keep its few inhabitants at home. In that respect it's a lot like Civita di Bagnoregio, except that the latter is just an old medieval village like countless thousands, whereas the tombs of Sovana are unique. There are larger Etruscan necropoli -- not many, actually -- and elsewhere there are the painted tombs that spring to mind where here we have none; but these are above-ground, sculptured temples. Nothing like Sovana anywhere.
The only additional suggestion I have would be Chiusi; a bit of a stretch, but no farther from your home base than Viterbo. The town is pleasant, the museum is fabulous. I'm not big on museums; this one is very informative, contains some very important Etruscan stuff, plus they're beautiful objects. (To be frank, that's fairly unusual: normally, Etruscherie in museums mean sinister black pots and odds-n-ends of moldy bronze. Not here.) Â Â Â At the same distance, Chiusi has an advantage over Viterbo precisely in that there is less to see: so that, spending a day there, you can go away without a rushed feeling of not having seen anything.
Between a place where there's lots to see, and a place where there's less, I'll pick the one with less, every time.
Still, as you yourself titled this thread, I think your priority now is to scratch items off your list, not add any...
Hey Denise, I live in Austin too and am going to Italy in 11 days just like you are! What a coincidence! Are you flying Delta? We're also staying for 3 weeks and will be based in Panicale, Umbria the 2nd week. We're planning to visit some of the towns you listed -- let me know when your plans firm up and maybe we can meet for lunch or dinner somewhere along the way. Are you waking up at night thinking about your trip? I'm starting to go into overdrive! Elizabethl
I posted a long detailed reply to this message, forgot to hit "Post Message" wandered away from the computer for a few hours and the page timed out! Here I go again.
We enjoyed Tarquinea as a day trip from Monte Argentario. I would guess that the Etruscan tombs there are among the top ones you will see. Once I saw those, I felt like I need not look at any more. There is a field just outside of town with all these dirt humps. The hump has a door and you go down a steep flight of stairs, into the ground, to a glass door where you peer through to the tomb. You can see the frescoes from 2000+ years ago. It was not crowded when we were there - June 2000. The town of Tarquinea was also interesting, with a good museum. Capalbio, another town in that area is also interesting with lots of good looking restaurants.
We skipped Sorano (the Cadogan guide said it was boring) and enjoyed Sovana, but we did not see the tombs. We did a trip to Sovana, then Saturnia for lunch (Due Cippi), then to the Saturnia hotsprings, then to Pitigliano - and really enjoyed our day out. I think we ended up the day in Aquapendente, just walking around and picking up groceries.
Montalcino, Sant' Antimo, San Quirco d' Orcia, Bagno Vignoni, Abbadia San Salvatore and Rocca d' Orcia - of this group I would say you must see Sant'Antimo and Montalcino. We have never made it to San Quirco. Rocca d'Orcia is very small - we just went there once for dinner. Abbadia San Salvatore is an interesting town, but we arrived there in the afternoon and everything was closed. The other towns around Monte Amiata are also interesting. Bagno Vignoni is also very small, but close to the main road so you can just pop in and soak your feet.
What about Pienza and Monte Oliveto while you are in that area?
The schedule for the chanting at Sant'Antimo is also on that page.
If I were spending a week in that area, I would probably do the following: 1 day - Monte Amiata towns, ending up at Sant'Antimo and Montalcino. Maybe work in Pienza and Monte Oliveto. 1 day - Todi and Orvieto. The frescoes in the duomo in Orvieto are wonderful. I would probably go to Todi in the morning and then have lunch there (the Umbrian) or nearby (many restaurants in that area have been mentioned in previous posts), then go over to Orvieto for when the Duomo opens in the afternoon and spend some time there. 1 day - Pitigliano, Sovana, Saturnia 1 day - just explore Lake Bolsena That leaves two days for those other Lazio towns.
Posts: 26618 | Location: Santa Fe, NM | Registered: 15 June 2001
Pauline - Thanks for the advice! We've been to Pienza, which is why it's not on my list. But tell me more about Monte Olivieto. I know I've read something about it, somewhere. I went back through my guide books and map and can't find anything. Not that I need to add anything, but I don't want to miss something spectacular. And thanks for suggesting Saturnia. I originally had it on my long list, but had crossed it out at some point. Elizabeth - What a coincidence! We're flying Air France. If I can get specific on my days I'll be in touch. Right now I'm in a panic, my oldest (child) has come down with a virus and youngest broke his big toe! Timing! Hope you have a fabulous trip.
Dear Denise-take a peek at my website to see something abut the Viterbo-Vetralla-northern Lazio area. If you send me your email I'll forward my latest Newsletter and you can read past ones on the site. Its hard to cut out places. If you make it to my town I'd be glad to meet you. Mary Jane
Sorry, Bill, I absolutely recommend Civita. In fact, I was there three days ago, for my farewell lunch to Umbria. But it's something you see as part of a day trip linked to Orvieto -- not a place to park yourself for days. What it has going for it is dramatic beauty, a tiny town with drop-dead views that hasn't been fully restored yet (so still has crumbling charm) and a very tasty restaurant that overlooks the entire valley. Get there about 11:00 a.m., then walk into Hosteria Del Ponte (the only restaurant there), ask for a reservation "per terraza" -- on the terrace, for later -- go up and walk around the town, go back down, eat lunch, and leave.
My favorite hill towns, so far, are Orvieto (one of the most stunning churches in Italy, good restaurants, and FLAT), although not without tourists, Montalcino, for charm and wine, and Cortona, although there are now crowds. Todi was very rich once and has lots of palazzi, but mysteriously few restaurants or shops, and you find yourself wanting to leave after about an hour. Why expatriates go flocking there is a bit of a mystery. Spoleto is also wonderful, not as touristy as Tuscan towns, ancient, cockeyed streets, with another high-quality church and reasonable hotels.
Siena, huge and beautiful, can have masses of people and major parking stress if you don't know what you're doing. Get advice.
Pitigliano is very dramatic, clinging to the tufa the way it does, with insanely narrow streets, but once you walk into it, it's narrow, dank, and depressing, without much in the way of trattorias (a big deal with me).
I had a nice time in Tuscania, walking around, having lunch at the Michelin-starred Gallo Hotel, and seeing one of the most beautiful ancient churches, on the road out of town near the fort. There are also Farnese villas in this area that you can tour -- a change of pace from hilltowns and a peek into the opulence of the rich.
Well, add this to the pot! R.G.
Posts: 326 | Location: @##$@!! Los Angeles | Registered: 19 March 2002
Well welcome back! -- and I'm sure I'll get to Civita fairly soon, not being immune to beauty and dramatic landscapes. Not immune to good food, either: thanks for the tip! Yes, it makes a nice side trip to Orvieto, at least mapwise for those who are driving.
Yes Pitigliano town is depressing; the great fascination of the place is in the vie cave immediately around it.
quote:... you find yourself wanting to leave [Todi] after about an hour. Why expatriates go flocking there is a bit of a mystery.
That answers that question, alright! It's a very nice place to live -- because it's not packed with visitors like Orvieto and Spoleto!
quote:Yes Pitigliano town is depressing; the great fascination of the place is in the vie cave immediately around it.
True....... in addition I enjoyed going to the relatively newly restored Synagogue and learning about the former Jewish population of Pitigliano. As far as food, we didn't search much, but ended up having a mediocre lunch at a trattoria there, so I'd have to agree with you about food, RG. Although there might well have been good restaurants there that I missed..... I seem to recall that we had a reference to one that was closed.
Posts: 4838 | Location: New York City | Registered: 15 June 2001
What I love about Pitigliano is the view of it from the main road when you are driving towards it coming from the west - it is stunning! You are driving along a highway, go around a corner and then there is Pitigliano carved out of the rock at the top of a cliff - you are looking straight at it across a valley. The last time we did this drive, I was driving and the car ahead of us just stopped in the middle of the road. We almost ran into them.
There are good restaurants in Saturnia, which is not so far, and some of the other small towns near Saturnia.
Posts: 26618 | Location: Santa Fe, NM | Registered: 15 June 2001
Denise and Elizabeth, I also live in Austin. I am leaving for Florence in seven days!! If either of you (or anyone else who is reading this) will be in Florence we should get together for lunch or dinner. I will be there for 2 months and will be taking day and weekend trips from there. Hope to get together with any one of the wonderful people on this board!!
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It's a very nice place to live -- because it's not packed with visitors like Orvieto and Spoleto!
