My husband and I are traveling for 41 days arriving mid September to FCO with departure from same late October. We fell in love with Italy after a brief visit to Milan in 2005. We are finally able to go again for a better look.
Our wish is to acquaint ourselves with a variety of areas in order to find "where might best suit" us as a base for a return in 2009 or 2010 for a stay of 6 - 8 months. We essentially want to "experience" each area and enjoy "some" of the sights, as this is our first visit but more so see the locals and feel the neighborhoods, enjoy a church service, etc. We both appreciate art and history, however, several cathedrals and a couple of museums a week will be most enjoyable.
The following "partial itinerary" has taken many hours to develop, as you know. I need assurance that it is reasonable and pleasurable as a "slow trav trip". (I now sleep, dream, breath, think, speak of Italy almost 24 hours a day.) "smile"
If you could please have a look and alert me to any obvious problems/issues I would be so very grateful!
Note: Trains have not been "reserved" as it is "too early" according to the website. (this is a bit disconcerting, particularly the Roma - Venezia and the Venezia - Nice legs)
Okay, here goes:
Arrive FCO - AM apartment in Trastevere (to apartment....taxi, train, or car?)
Day 1 - 8 adjust to time, tour sites (guide 2 - 1/2 days), daily strolls, shop in local markets to cook some meals in apt, and take naps as needed.
Day 9 - train to Venezia - arv PM - apt near the La Fenice Theatre
Day 10 - 13 - daily strolls, ( guide 1 - 1/2 day,) experience one evening gondola ride, boat rides to Lido and Murano Islands, see one theatrical performance or concert, maybe view a Regatta from the water on Sunday 21st at Burano, shop in local markets to cook some meals in apt, and naps as needed.
Day 14 - train to Nice, France - arrv PM - apt on Rue Alponse Karr
Day 15 - 20 - tour Nice, train to Cannes, Monte Carlo, and Eze or Grasse
Day 21 - train from Nice - Firenze via Milano *** ???? (Is a lunch in the train station an option?) I can book our transfer one or two hours apart in order to have a nice lunch and people watch.
6 - 7 PM arrive - taxi to Apt near Piazzale Michelangelo
Day 22 - 28 - daily strolls, three days exploring Firenze/Santa Croce(guide 1 - 1/2 day)
Train to Lucca - visit, lunch, return to Firenze. Train to Pisa - visit tower, lunch, visit Duomo return to Firenze. Train to Bologna? Elsewhere as a comfortable day trip? Is a trip to the Adriatic coast reasonable?
Day 29 - dpt Firenze by car for Tuscany/Umbria. Appx 6 days touring.
Well, that is as far as I have gotten. After the booking in Firenze my feet have gotten cold and I think guidance will help me move along again.
We hope to include in Herculeum, Pompeii, Sorrento area, and Capri.
Your experiences and recommendations have helped me get this far. I am very grateful! Please, if an obvious "snafoo" if visible to any of you, let me know.
Thank you in advance for your consideration and suggestions. I return to reading/enjoying/researching your trip reports on ST.
Again, many thanks....
Carouselgirl,
Posts: 40 | Location: Georgia, USA | Registered: 10 May 2008
Everything looks good to me until you start getting a bit overambitious during your Florence stay. I think Bologna is too much of a daytrip from Florence; why not limit yourselves to Lucca and Pisa? In fact, as neither of these trips need to be reserved, why not plan on just one (say, Lucca) and only do the other if you are bored with Florence. Bologna is a whole other big city. Oh --- and I'm not sure you really need a guide for 1 1/2 days in Florence.
This doesn't sound like cold feet to me. It sounds like you are just obsessing, like most of us do, as a big exciting trip approaches the reality stage. Coraggio!
Just noticed: Happy 1 month Slow Trav anniversary.
Hi again....Correction: Okay...it's day 29 (not 21)!
Marian, thank you for your reply, suggestions and encouragement. I've been reading for over a year on ST.... has been fun "living" through all the other travelers.
Pisa and Lucca are "options" and it's very nice to not "have to plan ahead" for those. That fact increases their charm even more, as it will happen on the day we feel like it! (I am thankful.)
Re: guide in Florence. My wording was confusing. It's a 1/2 day.... perhaps 10AM - 1PM (not 1 + 1/2 day). Sorry.
I will try "not to obsess", but it is very difficult knowing there will be so many incredible things "just around the next corner", "just behind that wall", "just up the road a bit", or "just across town" that shouldn't be missed when you're that close! (smile) I'm constantly "blurting" our bits of information I've read to my husband. I'm happy he's accustomed to my "compulsive tendencies" and somehow manages to make sense of it all later!
Marian, again, thank you! (side.....Where on ST can I find out what "matriarch" means?)
Potenza Ron, thanks for your reply and suggestions.
Combining Lucca and Pisa in a day might happen. I've noted (from other ST travelers) the need to get our tickets for the Tower in advance to ensure immediate entrance. Of course, we will climb to the top for the view and the Duomo will not be an extensive visit. If we were "early birds" it would be even more feasible. I remain open to either/or. Thanks for the suggestion.
Why do you prefer Lucca? I want to go (but at the moment can't explain why.) I read an article (years ago) about a music festival held there and the name stuck as did the impression of 'I'm going there when I'm in Italy'! I must research.
Re: Bologna.... My husband and I both love 'cities' and Bologna keeps drawing our eyes up the map as we consider our direction after Firenze. We have not read/heard much about it as a travel destination. (Very similar to our position when we decided to stop in Milan after a trip to Switzerland. We both LOVED Milan immediately! All we'd heard was that "it was industrial" and "people dressed well".) smile We find the vibrancy, activity, and mix of cultures to be stimulating and infinitely interesting. I'll research more.
I'm having great fun with the research and planning, in spite of occasionally feeling "overwhelmed".
Again, thank you both for your comments and words of encouragement.
Have a good evening.....
Carouselgirl
Posts: 40 | Location: Georgia, USA | Registered: 10 May 2008
I suspect there is a reason why you are going to Nice on this trip but...if you are wanting to go to Pompeii, etc. you may wish to trade Nice for that--which is what I would recommend. You could follow your current plan--go from Rome to Venice and then work your way back down to Florence, Tuscany (you could spend time in both the Chianti and Southern areas), Amalfi and then back to Rome for your flight. This would be a very full itinerary but would give you a chance to enjoy each area for a few days.
Also, if you are serious about something longer than a 90 day future stay, you need to check out the EU and Italy visa requirements. There are some hoops to jump through.
Planning is so much a part of the fun of traveling. Enjoy it!
Day 21 - train from Nice - Firenze via Milano *** ???? (Is a lunch in the train station an option?) I can book our transfer one or two hours apart in order to have a nice lunch and people watch.
Trenitalia doesn't list that route as an option; it would add distance and cost. Were you planning to do it that way to limit it to one change? Trenitalia's options would have you follow the coast with two changes, ending with a Regionale from Pisa.
From what's been posted here, the eating options in Milano Centrale station aren't good; better if you could leave the station. There have been some recommendations for the Eurostar dining car.
We did 30+ days in 2006 and covered a lot of territory! Was it slow travel....well, parts of it were and parts of it weren't.
If you read the first part of my trip report, you'll find the itinerary that we planned out listing where we stayed and what our plans were in each place. Some happened, some didn't, but it was a great trip for our first one. It sounds like we covered the same areas in Italy that you want to visit, so you might find it helpful in the way that we organized our travels so we weren't backtracking. If it's too difficult to follow in the report, I still have a copy of it, with the links to various things, still lurking in my e-mail that I could forward to you if you like.
We started out in France (Paris) for a few days then headed to Venice to start our tour of Italy. That might be a better option, rather than sort of backtracking to France. Not sure if you have to fly in and out of Rome, if not that opens up your options a bit more.
Italy is a fantastic place, wherever you end up going, you'll find great food, great people and incredible scenery.
The Lucca Summer Festival is in July, so that will not be there for you during your fall trip.
I am not clear on what type of locale you are hoping to live in when your long range plans come to fruition. Your itinerary seems focused on the larger cities (Florence, Venice) with just quick in and outs to other places.
We have our summer home in a small village outside of Lucca and the "experience" of the time we spend there is not so much the museums and monuments, but the small things that bring enjoyment. We live outside of Washington, DC, so have much the same view of our lives here.
Rather than using Florence as a base from which to see Lucca and Pisa, why not use Florence as a base to see.....Florence ....with short trips to Fiesole on the northern edge of the city and Certosa del Galluzzo on the southern edge (and maybe a short visit to the WW II American cemetery near the Certosa) for starters.
A smaller city like Lucca gives you access to some different areas....Pisa for the monuments; Viareggio for the beach; Carrara for the marble; Pietrasanta for the arts...and on and on. Look for all the small festivals and sagras that go on to get out to spend times with the locals. March in a processional to help celebrate a local saint. Find the out of the way things like the chestnut museum and the figurista museum and see some of the things that will entertain you once the initial rush of "OMG, I'm living in Italy" is past.
You have a treasure chest of time waiting to be filled up with the actual treasure. I envy you.
Posts: 506 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: 22 May 2006
Am very partial to Lucca and Bologna having spent a week in both places. Lucca was just a great Italian small city to roam and rink in the sights and sounds. As mentioned in a previous post, it was quite convenient for travel to other town on day trips by train.
We liked Bologna for the city itself and for ease of day trips to places like Parma, Ravenna, etc. And of course the food is great. I also found the university a wonderful source of museums, etc. With the arcades running throughout the city, walking during rainy weather was no problem.
Posts: 90 | Location: Walnut Creek, CA | Registered: 18 January 2005
Slow down you move too fast. Hubby and I go for a month or more every time we go. We wouldn't begin to think of tackling your itinerary. For a couple of reasons. After the 3rd stop it is all going to be a blur. Also after the 3rd stop you are going to be begging - please can't we just stop and rest? I see darn little "down time" in your itinerary.
If you are already booked into apartments, etc you are going to have to live with it but those last 12 days? I'd pick one place and plant myself. If you aren't booked add those days to your current itinerary.
Unless you have some jet set aspirations or you are hopelessly in love with Annie Hawes "Extra Virgin" I'd trade Nice for Pompeii, and south. You'll get the same ocean and a heck of a lot cheaper and fewer tourists.
You are never going to see it all. You aren't even going to see a 1000th of Italy. If you won the lottery today (hey it's Wed - gotta go get my tickets) took off for Italy tomorrow and did 50 years in Italy you would see maybe a 10th of this wonderful place. Heck we have friends - native Romans who haven't seen all of ROME!! Content yourself with the fact that you have seen a lot.
And doing your kind of travel is very different from landing and staying for a month or more. You may see someplace gorgeous and quiet and think "wow we gotta stay here". So you book for 2 months and after 2 weeks you are going crazy. Or vice versa.
You will be here during the harvest season (sagra) --- grapes, nuts, olives, tobacco --- and small towns celebrate these with great home-spun festivity. Google "sagra" and then the name of a town you would like to visit to see when and what they are planning. You will be warmly welcomed at these slice-o-life festivities, and experience the tremendous humanity of the Italian people.
If you want to do Positano, Capri, etc. I would do that first so that you get good enough weather to still swim. But that's just me... I adore the quality of the sea off places like Capri. It is wonderful swimming.
I agree with someone else who said "use Florence as a base to see Florence." Florence, as I am sure you know, is one of the world's great cities, holding one fourth of the world's great art. Even if you don't go into museums, just walking around the city can fill up days.
I personally don't think Pisa is very interesting. The main thing there is the leaning tower and that doesn't take long to see. For me personally, it's not worth a day trip when Florence is so much more fascinating. I too, prefer Lucca over Pisa as someone else commented on. Lucca has a lot of charm. I would pick Lucca for a day trip and spend the rest of the time in Florence. If you want to see Bologna, I'd just do it upon leaving Florence. When you're done with your days in Florence, take the train to Bologna and stay a night or two. You'll get a better feel for the city and it'll be more relaxing.
So if you were to start with the Positano area, you could progress north, to Rome, then to Florence, then to Bologna and then to Venice. Perhaps you could fly out of Venice so you're not doing any backtracking. If you can't fly into Naples, to start with the Positano area, then you could fly into Rome and have a night there and then head to Positano.
When I arrange itineraries I try to move in logical progressions and not backtrack and I hate backtracking to get to the airport at the end so I always aim to fly out of a city that's as near as possible to where my last point on the itinerary is.
Day 14 - train to Nice, France - arrv PM - apt on Rue Alponse Karr
Day 15 - 20 - tour Nice, train to Cannes, Monte Carlo, and Eze or Grasse
For those who say to skip Nice, I guess that makes sense if you are sure you want to plan an extended visit to Italy and the purpose of this trip is to figure out exactly where. However, since this is the Italy forum, people may be giving short shrift to Nice, which is one of our very favorite cities. We find that this area combines the best of both France and Italy. We've been there twice and could easily go back again.
However, you can't train to Eze or Grasse; you need to take a bus or car. Actually, I would recommend that you substitute Antibes for Cannes and skip Monte Carlo. Most people I know who have gone to MC have been disappointed, and there are so many other more beautiful places along the Riviera. If you click on the link under my name, you will find a trip report on the Cote d'Azur in 2005 and a photo album from 2007.
Have you already booked all your apartments?It would seem to make more sense to go to Rome after Florence, then from there to the Amalfi Coast. Or, as the previous post suggests, start by going south to Positano then work your way north from there. You are doing a lot of backtracking if you tack on the Amalfi Coast at the end.
Have you considered substituting the Cinque Terre for the Amalfi Coast? You could do that before or after Florence and save the Amalfi Coast for another trip.
My thoughts on Lucca and Pisa: A friend who did "an 8 cities in 7 days" sort of tour and came back and raved about Italy - Naples, Rome, Bologna, Florence were all wonderful, but she said Lucca was "just boring".
I was shocked as Lucca is one of my favourite places - I took my parents there as htere first ever visit to Italy, and they were enchanted. How could anybody not like it?
And then it struck me - the pleasure of Lucca is not the sightseeing or the rapid trip, it is living in and breathing the city. Spend a few nights there and you are caught. It is beautiful, friendly, but most of all livable.
I really like Pisa as well. Arrive at the main station and walk up to the Duomo, through the modern precincts, across the Arno, down through the market etc. It again gives a feel for more than just the "funny tower" and the awful souvenier stalls.
I could spend several hours in the Duomo - a stunning building. The museums are very good as well, and it is always worth watching the video of the assorted attempts to "save the tower".
TO confuse matters further, I agree with the others - Florence has more than enough charms to keep you busy for a week or more.
TimW
Posts: 800 | Location: Hampshire, UK | Registered: 28 March 2005
Thanks to each of you for your candid comments and suggestions. They have all been helpful.
The flights are booked as are the apartments in the first three cities. (The possibility of cold weather arriving early prompted our decision to travel north first).
Regarding the "backtracking". We wanted to begin in Rome. To go in/out of same was appealing. We're okay with it. We found this method to be preferrable for us after an experience in Madrid (fly in/out). After five weeks touring Spain we were tiring of check-in/out, bag hauling, and re-orienting that comes with each new destination. Our return to Madrid was with a feeling of familiarity and comfort. We visited several sites we'd missed previously and with the city "mapped in our memory" navigating was much less stressful. Our return to a favorite restaurant for a "parting" dinner was very pleasant. We hope "backtracking" into Rome will offer a similar experience.
My thoughts of Firenze are as most of you indicated. My husband, is not as convinced and worries, as someone mentioned, by this point everything will all be jamming together in our brains. The idea of "staying put" and day tripping (car/bus/train) remains most appealing. With your helpful comments and suggestions, perhaps I can present the idea with more confidence and enthusiasm. One of the challenges of traveling is to balance the preferences and wishes of each individual.
Jane .... can't trade Nice for Pompeii. I would, but my husband will not! I suggested a similar change to "allow for better" slow trav. Not happening. So...... "fine-tuning" continues. Thanks for mentioning the "hoops" for 90+ day stay. I will begin my inquiries. The planning is an enormous part of the fun! Thanks for your encouragement! Will look into your links and postings later. I suspect several will be familiar!
Andrew.... looking at the train schedules it didn't appear the differences in travel time were significant. (perhaps costs, yes.) The decrease in train changes/thus possible misses is also appealing. I will continue to investigate. Thank you.
Linda.... Thank you. You make me smile to think of arriving via Paris. My first suggestions included flying into Paris (for a few days), take a fast/slow train (enjoy the scenery) to Cote d'Azur arriving to Italy from there. I was on a 10 week schedule. Once my husband realized the number of weeks I was working within, he quickly put a cap of six on the trip. (smiling more!) I look forward to reading your report. It will be a wonderful trip!
Alpinista.... Fiesole and Certosa del Galluzzo would make interesting day trips. Thank you for the suggestion. I started a list of festivals and am hopeful we will get to experience several before we leave. I must look into Pietrasanta. Your daily "Italian life" is a dream many of us have. You are so fortunate to live it!
Potenza Ron......Bologna remains in our sites. I tried to work in time toward the Adriatic , Ancona or Pescara but time simply will not allow it. Lucca..... we are visiting! Thank you for your thoughts.
Romeaddict ..... Thanks for the reminder to SLOWDOWN! We will take our "timeouts"! No races here.... just continuous first impressions being made! Our list of "must dos" will be grow with each day, no doubt. I appreciate so much your thoughts and suggestions.
Mr. Rainey..... thanks for your comments.
Ifin .... thanks! I will look at your link. The "sagras" will be delightful and I hope we are able to be a part of several in the few weeks we're visiting.
Redredwine.... thanks for the suggestions. We will have a nice visit in Florence, which of course will not be long enough to see it all. We'll return.
Roz.... thank you! You're right... ST France would have been of assistance re: Nice. I've never used a forum/blog before and am navigating my way through this fascinating world of information. I've no doubt we will enjoy the visit. The stops in MC and Cannes are more for purposes of marinas/boating. The entire coast will offer information in that regards. We are excited to be going. A bus ride to Eze or Grasse will be great. Just added Vence to the "maybe list". It will be all be so very interesting in it's newness. I will enjoy looking at your link and again, thank you for responding to this query.
TimW..... thank you for your comments. Our research has indicated much of what you express. Florence is indeed worth more time and of course, no matter how long we are there, a return trip will be needed in order to see things missed. Again, thank you for taking the time to help with my research and planning.
Please, everyone know, your comments and suggestions are much appreciated. You have given me reassurance and assisted in my planning. Your suggestions will aid in my future travels as well. THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME!
Wish you all wellness in health and much pleasure in your travels!
Southern smiles,
Carouselgirl
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Posts: 40 | Location: Georgia, USA | Registered: 10 May 2008
with Florence. Bologna is a whole other big city. Oh --- and I'm not sure you really need a guide for 1 1/2 days in Florence.
