I've spent some time researching different tours of the Vatican museum. There are several which look great. Given our limited time to try to see a LOT of Rome, I would prefer to find a walking tour company which would have tickets "ready to go" when you arrive.
Does this company have "line waiters" for the patrons, or do you stand in line for who-knows-how-long to get inside? I've read nice things about them and am interested.
many thanks.
[edited by Chris to correct typo in title for search engines]
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Chris,
Apparently 'line waiters' are no longer allowed. Our tour guide used the time in-line to set a context for what we were to see and provided a vivid history of the Vatican. We were there on a busy day when there was a papal blessing. We were in line for less than 20 minutes and it was time very well spent.
Jerry
The traveler sees what he sees. The tourist sees what he has come to see. ~G.K. Chesterton
If you search this board, there are a lot of previous threads about this. Getting in appears to be a crap shoot. Some people report short waits in lines and others have a different experience. I finally got into the the Vatcian Museum the third time that I went. The lines the first 2 times were long and my daughters did not want to wait in the line. The time that I did get in, I waited in line 1 hours and 40 minutes. Before I went the last time, I searched the web for someplace where we could get in without waiting in line, but I couldn't find anything; all the agencies were getting tickets through the Vatican system where you apply and then they FAX you the day before your desired time whether you goty in and the piece of paper you need to show if you did get in. Since I was staying in an apartment, I did not access to FAX. When I went they started letting individuals in at 8:30 am, but now they start at 10. Only licenced tour groups get in at 8:30.
there are after hours tours, where you don't have to wait in line. the catch is that they are very expensive. You can check on the prices if you are interested in a previous thread.
Posts: 4357 | Location: St Paul, MN | Registered: 10 February 2006
Booking through 3M didn't save us any time. We still had to wait in line for over two hours last year. Apparently it was an unusually lengthy line according to our guide.
Elly
Posts: 1203 | Location: Western Australia | Registered: 27 March 2005
Thanks everyone. I did exhaustively search and read many threads on this board and fodors - but since the policies changed so recently it was worth a fresh question.
It seems like Angel Tours still states it will have line-waiters (maybe not allowed, but how do they police it?) and someone on fodors recently returned and their tour company also had line waiters for them. It likely isn't something to count on however!
Many companies seem to start their tours at lunch time which sounds like a better idea, from what I've read.
There is just no way I could live with myself if there was a huge long line waiting to get into the museums and I just popped into the line where the tour guide's 'line waiter' was holding a spot. I would think as well that you would run the risk of bodily harm . . .
Jerry
The traveler sees what he sees. The tourist sees what he has come to see. ~G.K. Chesterton
I've gone to the Vatican Museums three or four times and never waited in line longer than 20 minutes. Last fall, I took my first formal tour of the museums, with Tony from 3Millennia Tours (Tony da Roma on this board), and there was no lineup.
This may be because, when I've gone alone, it was always late morning, close to noon. And with Tony, we went in about 12:30 p.m. Tony has suggested that around noon time, when many tourists are taking a lunch break, the lines are dramatically shorter. I think he has a point.
Perhaps you could find a tour that starts at a slightly odd hour (rather than, say, early morning or early afternoon.) And, as Jerry mentioned above, if you do have a bit of a wait, try not to think of it as a waste of time -- it's really a great opportunity for the guide to fill you in on some of the background of the museum. It's valuable context to have, and your guide will want to provide that, either once you're inside or if your caught in a line outside.
We used 3M last May and our wait was at the most 40 minutes. I think we met Tony at 12:30 but I can't remember the day of the week. If you're flexible you can find out the least crowded days. BTW, Tony was a great guide and I highly recommend him. He gave us some Vatican background while we waited in line which helped pass the time.
Carole
Posts: 1376 | Location: Laguna Beach, CA | Registered: 09 February 2006
OK - here is the scoop on the new Vatican museums hours and guidelines. I just called a guide friend of mine who works for selectitaly.com, does the early am vatican tours and this is how it works (as of Saturday). BTW the situation is still in flux.
There are now 2 lines at the entrance to the museums starting at like 7 am (or earlier for the general tourist line). Line A is the reserved tour line. This is for companies who have paid their multi-thousand fee to the vatican and are licensed with the Vatican. Line B is the general tourist line. As mentioned there are people lining up at 7 am for a 10 am admission.
From 8:00 - 8:45 is the smaller tour groups (up to 60) who have pre-reservations. These are the most expensive tours(next to the private after hours tours of groups of 15-25). Basically the tour company pays a flat fee and in effect is "guaranteeing" a certain number of tourists. If they don't get enough customers they can cancel within 24 hours. Obviously the company won't run a tour that would constitute a major loss. This is why the companies that do this won't tell you until the last minute whether there will be a tour leaving that day.
Then from 9:00 to 9:45 is larger tour groups. These tend to be bus tours, large pilgrim groups.
In addition there are people called "gatherers" who get together groups from the general public line before 10 am. Gatherers will work the general public line earlier but so far the experience has been that most people don't know about the new admission rules and think the "gatherers" are lying when they say they can't get in before 10 am. This is what happens when you read out of date guidebooks. By 9 am they start to believe them and some people will pay the upcharge for the tour.
After 10 am "gathering" is no longer allowed and supposedly guides are not allowed to stand in line in lieu of their customers.
If I wasn't booking a private after hours tour (which for approximately $250 is still the deal of the century) I would find a company that has an 8 - 9 am slot. This would minimize waiting time and would allow you to see the museums and chapel without huge crowds.
If you decide to take your chances in the public line be aware that when it gets to 2 pm the doors close. PERIOD. Too bad if you've been in line since 8 am.
BTW the vatican is posting record admissions according to my friend.
This has been one of my pet peeves for a decade. Why doesn't the vatican just go to reserved entry ala the Uffizi? If you ain't smart enough to make a reservation then you wait in line and no guarantees.
There is just no way I could live with myself if there was a huge long line waiting to get into the museums and I just popped into the line where the tour guide's 'line waiter' was holding a spot. I would think as well that you would run the risk of bodily harm . . .
The mood in the line was ugly when I was waiting. if someone had tried to cut in, they might have gotten hit. Someone was standing in line and then alledgedly her family appeared and "joined" her in line. There were so many angry comments that she felt that she had to explain loudly (in English) that the rest of her family had been off getting gelato. 2 of the boys were teens so that this might have been true.
quote:
which for approximately $250 is still the deal of the century
I believe that this is $250 per person?
Posts: 4357 | Location: St Paul, MN | Registered: 10 February 2006
Thanks for the great information on this very confusing subject.
One question ~ what is the approximate cost for one of the tours that can get in before 10am? Are they much more expensive than the regular tours?
Ok, 2 questions!
Do you also have the names of the tours that can get in earlier and contact numbers?
This is important for us, we will only be in Rome for 3 nights, so 2 full days, one of which is a Sunday, so the Vatican is closed. Our only chance to see the Vatican is Monday, June 4, and I think the official Vatican tour is not available on Mondays. We just want to make sure we get in that day (but still won't ante up for a private tour! )
Wow! We must have been the luckiest people on earth the day we went.....I do know it was after 1:00 sometime, but there was NO LINE UP! None, whatsoever. We were with a tour that we'd found in the morning through a freebie of the basilica. In we went, bought our tickets and away we went. Once inside though, the place was just packed, especially the Sistine Chapel. Which was really too bad.
I think I would suggest either trying to be in one of the first tour groups or one of the last. Pros and cons to both. The first would be the least crowded of course, until the other tour groups caught up. The last, if you truly were the last, I would think you'd have a bit more "straggle" time. They seem to really keep you moving through and if your tour gets a little behind, they will send you off in another direction for crowd control I guess. Luckily we didn't miss anything (that I know of), but we did talk to people who ended up missing all the Raphael rooms because another group had overtaken them at some point and they ended up being redirected.
How would this work with a private tour....assuming they are able to spend more time explaining/identifying things, so is it possible to also get a bit behind and be redirected by museum staff? If so, other than a smaller group and likely a better guide (our guide was really good), what would be the advantage?
We are back in September this year and have thought about possibly booking one of these tours, but I'm not sure.
Okay, now I'm getting confused. From Debra's posting and website link, it appears that you can get into the Vatican on this tour group for only E25 per person and bypass all the lines? They recommend arriving 15 minutes earlier? Is this correct - sounds like the best deal to me.
We are going in September and as much as I wanted to see the Vatican, the story of long lines in the heat was definitely scaring me off as I am sun sensitive and literally wilt (with extremely cranky results)
BC Brenda
Posts: 353 | Location: Vancouver Island, BC | Registered: 26 December 2006
Is entry into St. Peter's Basilica as hard as entry to the Vatican Museums?
2 out of 3 times that I have been to the Vatican, once we got through security there was no line at all to get into the Basilica. The third time I went on Dec 9, there was a big line, but I thought it had to do with the holiday weekend (dec 8 is a holiday) or the Christmas season. It took only about 10-15 minutes to get through security
Posts: 4357 | Location: St Paul, MN | Registered: 10 February 2006
The Vatican DOES offer a tour of the museums and I would assume that the rules would be the same.
Yes the Vatican does offer a tour of the Museum. You FAX in your request and then 24 hours before your alledged admission they FAX you back and let you know IF you got in. I believe the chances are about 33%. If you get in Your FAX contains the info you need to get in, and you need to bring the reservation number. If you FAXed from the US your FAX goes there while you are in Italy. if you stay in a hotel and they have a FAX, you can get them to FAX the request into the Vatican and you might be able to get the admission info while you are in Italy. If you rent an apartment and don't have access to a FAX, you are just out of luck.
Not all of us have a neighbor with a FAX machine who we can call from Rome for our reservation number. So it's a great deal if you can work out your FAX access.
Posts: 4357 | Location: St Paul, MN | Registered: 10 February 2006
From my copious reading today, I gather that at least one of the tour companies will take care of all that for you. I.e. they are getting the official fax back from the Vatican. i.e. also a line-jumper pass, right?
Originally posted by woodstock: Rome Addict - thank you so much. Who would you recommend as an after hours guide/company?
Right now the only company doing this is www.italywithus.com. Run by Helen Donegan (an Irish expat) she has several tours scheduled this summer. Hopefully her after hour tours will match your schedule. If they don't there is still the option of booking the tour for yourselves which is where the big bucks comes in. Current price is about $3500.
Thanks for the great information on this very confusing subject.
One question ~ what is the approximate cost for one of the tours that can get in before 10am? Are they much more expensive than the regular tours?
Ok, 2 questions!
Do you also have the names of the tours that can get in earlier and contact numbers?
Jo:
There are a number of companies who have tours that go before 10 am. The best time still is between 8 and and 8:45 am. The one company I know for sure is www.selectitaly.com.
{ adding SlowTrav affiliate link } [quote shortened for readability]
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Pauline,
I just want to clarify what the guide told Rome Addict as it is not quite correct.
All tour companies that belong to the list of approved companies by the Vatican (meaning they paid a large fee in advance) must follow a VERY specific booking process. Basically, we can make reservations via email or fax (only from the email or fax that they have on record too) at the most, 30 days before the requested date and at the latest, 3 days before. Many days are sold out immediately.
So to book you need to send a fax or email. They have a specific form that must be used (which of course does not work from my MAC so I have to switch over to a PC to send it ) . You send it in with the request for how many tickets, date, time request, etc. that you want and they respond with either accepted and a reservation number or denied. On the form, you must choose between, 8-9 am entry or 9 - 9:45 entry. You tell them that if your choice is not available then they can move your reservation around. There are no rules about the size of groups. I have gotten reservations for 2 people in both time slots and for groups in both time slots.
If you decide to take your chances in the public line be aware that when it gets to 2 pm the doors close. PERIOD. Too bad if you've been in line since 8 am.
This is not entirely correct. From Monday to Friday the Vatican Museums close their doors at 3:30pm. On Saturdays they close earlier.
That will remain the case until late fall when the museum will shift back to its short hours.
There are a number of companies who have tours that go before 10 am. The best time still is between 8 and and 8:45 am. The one company I know for sure is www.selectitaly.com.
Thanks, but unfortunately, that is the company who does not do any tours on Monday, the only day we can go. Does anyone know the names of other companies that can get us in early on a Monday?
JO
{ fixing quote }
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Pauline,
All tour companies that belong to the list of approved companies by the Vatican Basically, we can make reservations via email or fax (only from the email or fax on record) at the most, 30 days before the requested date and at the latest, 3 days before
for the benefit of those you might want to go in the future, Who are these tour companies? How do you contact them? And how mcuh those these "sanctioned" tours cost per person. I tried to find a licensed tour company last December using Google and I wasn't very successful. I found one person and there were no prices listed. Can one obtain the tickets without having a email or FAX number in Italy (which I suspect form the bolded text)? Or is it more of the same where they reply after you have already left for Italy? I looked into Select Italy and you still had to be available by FAX the day before your inteneded tour. Or how much do those tours do the "gatherers" charge? I take it that once you accept a gatherers' invitation, you get to leave the line and go right in?
Posts: 4357 | Location: St Paul, MN | Registered: 10 February 2006
Can one obtain the tickets without having a email or FAX number in Italy (which I suspect form the bolded text)? O
The bolded text refers to the tour agencies making reservations not the general consumer. The consumer must contract with the tour company and then they make the advance arrangement.
Everyone should note that the Vatican changed the rules early this year, so any report of experiences last year (or earlier) are not relevant to the situation now.
Posts: 245 | Location: Washington DC | Registered: 11 January 2006
Originally posted by dragonpat: for the benefit of those you might want to go in the future, Who are these tour companies? How do you contact them? And how mcuh those these "sanctioned" tours cost per person.
I don't know how the gathering works as I organize tours with guides in advance. As Kim said, the faxing and or emailing that I wrote about is only for those companies that are sanctioned and they book guided tours before 10 am. The client does not need to be anywhere near a fax or even email as once they book (normally 30 days in advance) the voucher goes to their guide not to them.
Notes from Seth from Select Italy (a Slow Travel affiliate).
--------------
There's a lot of confusing info out there about the Vatican tours - so it's easy to get crossed signals.
A couple of things about the tours that Select Italy (my employer!) offers, just for clarification.
quote:
DragonPat wrote: I looked into Select Italy and you still had to be available by FAX the day before your inteneded tour.
That is true - but only in the case of our Reservation-Only Service. We offer reservations on the Vatican-led Group Tours. We receive confirmations for these tours no earlier than 2-3 days before the tour date, and frequently the day before. So, if you purchase that service , through our website, for $43.00 (USD) per person, you'll need to let us have some way to get you our vouchers the day before the tour. As JO points out, we don't offer that tour on Monday - too hard to get people the confirmations!
This is NOT the case, however, for our privately-guided Vatican tour - Two Masters at the Papal Court. This tour features entrance to the museum between 8 and 10 AM, (before regular hours), the services of a Select Italy guide for 3.5 hours, and following the museum, a guided visit to St. Peters.
For the "Two Masters" tour, we can confirm as early as 30 days before the tour date, depending on how quickly we get a response from the Vatican. And it's available on Mondays. Cristina rightly points out that in the case of privately guided tours, it is the Tour Operator that gets the voucher from the Vatican. Then we send our own vouchers to the client, before they leave for Italy.
This one is more expensive - booked as a private service, we charge $430.00 plus $27.00 / person entrance fees for up to 6 people. On the bright side, you don't have to wait till the last minute to get confirmed.
As if that wasn't confusing enough, we also offer clients the opportunity to share a Two Masters tour with other clients that book for the same date and time - for $120.00 / person, plus $27.00 / person entrance fees, you can share a guide with a group of up to 8 participants and get the same benefits of early entrance into the museum and a radically shorter line. Downside - it is only confirmed if 4 or more people request the shared tour on the same date! Whew!
As Cristina writes, there is no rule about what sort of groups are allowed entry during the two entry times between 8 & 10.
quote:
Rome Addict wrote: Basically the tour company pays a flat fee and in effect is "guaranteeing" a certain number of tourists. If they don't get enough customers they can cancel within 24 hours. Obviously the company won't run a tour that would constitute a major loss. This is why the companies that do this won't tell you until the last minute whether there will be a tour leaving that day.
This doesn't sound like the current system to me - no flat fee that I'm aware of.
We receive confirmations for these tours no earlier than 2-3 days before the tour date, and frequently the day before. So, if you purchase that service , through our website, for $43.00 (USD) per person
Thanks for all this info, Pauline, this looks like a great service at a great price.
Posts: 4357 | Location: St Paul, MN | Registered: 10 February 2006
Just so I understand - if my Mom and I want to do the private early tour, with a group (up to 8, but at least 4 have to sign up with you), that would be 147 dollars for me and 147 dollars for Mom?
How long after I email you the dates would we know? I guess I'd only be concerned if I had a long wait to secure it with you I wouldn't be able to try anyone else if you were unsuccessful.
We would be interested in Friday May 25, for instance. Thursday AM we have the Scavi tour so we cannot do it Thursday and Sunday AM we leave for home...
Since this is a direct question regarding our services, I hope it is ok to post an answer to it, despite that fact that it might be promoting 3 Millennia Tours.
We are currently working on securing early entrances for our clients. I expect to find out within a day or so, if this is something we will be offering to our clients or not. As of right now, I see the reality as being extremely high that we will soon be offering early Vatican Museum entrances. However, due to the cost of this early entrance, I foresee it as being cost prohibitive for our group clients. Therefore, I believe we will only be offering this service to our private clients. Once we have this figured out, I will post the details here, provided that is ok with the moderators.
A couple of other points to make:
In past years, I would say about 75%+ of our clients have not experienced any lines while on tour with us. We have always designed our tours so that they enter during slow periods at the entrance.
quote:
Originally posted by Rome Addict: In addition there are people called "gatherers" who get together groups from the general public line before 10 am.
This is illegal at all times of the day. The police frequently stop people that do this.
Originally posted by Trisha from Oklahoma: Does anyone know what Tony Da Roma's direct email address, I'm having trouble getting a hold of them through the main email. Thanks.
Hi Trisha, have you attempted to use the email link listed on his profile besides his business email? Cindy
Cindy ~ "Follow your Bliss." Find where it is, and don't be afraid to follow it. ~ Joseph Campbell
Posts: 771 | Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA | Registered: 16 November 2005
Originally posted by Kayd: Everyone should note that the Vatican changed the rules early this year, so any report of experiences last year (or earlier) are not relevant to the situation now.
Which is why I called the guide I knew and found out what is the current reality. These are experiences going on RIGHT NOW.
Originally posted by woodstock: Just so I understand - if my Mom and I want to do the private early tour, with a group (up to 8, but at least 4 have to sign up with you), that would be 147 dollars for me and 147 dollars for Mom?
How long after I email you the dates would we know? I guess I'd only be concerned if I had a long wait to secure it with you I wouldn't be able to try anyone else if you were unsuccessful.
We would be interested in Friday May 25, for instance. Thursday AM we have the Scavi tour so we cannot do it Thursday and Sunday AM we leave for home...
many thanks for the info.
Hi - to answer these questions: yes - the price for the shared private tour comes to $147.00 / person. We only offer the shared private tour on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday, so we couldn't do it as a shared tour on Friday the 25th. We could do it on Sat, May 26 - since we haven't yet received a request from another client for that day, you'd be the first clients signed up for that tour. That means that we wouldn't be able to confirm until at least two other clients had signed up for the same day. So, there could be a delay in confirming it, depending on how long it takes for other clients to join in (if they do at all!).
You can order the tour, see a list of already requested tours, by clicking on this link:
The shared group tour (by which I think you mean the reservation service at $44.00 / person (which I wrote incorrectly as $43.00 / person above - sorry!)) has an average of 30 people on it. It can be more and can be less. The Vatican has not informed us of a maximum group size. So 12 should be doable, if we can get it confirmed and if you don't mind the uncertainty of getting the confirmation at the very last minute.
From this point forward, we will now be able to offer our private clients 2 options.
Option 1: This is the option that we have been offering for years. We start with St. Peter's Square and Basilica, followed by a short lunch break and then finish with the Vatican Museum. This has us entering the museum in the afternoon after the crowds have died down. With this option we can not guarantee that our clients will not see a line. However, I do not foresee this as being a major issue with the new entrance policies.
Option 2: This option will have the clients entering at the 9:00 am time slot prior to general admission. Therefore the tour would start with the Vatican Museum followed by St. Peter's Square & Basilica. For those that are taking longer tours, we would include a lunch break in between the museum and the basilica. The cost for this early entrance fee is higher then the standard entrance fee that you would pay during general admission.
If anyone wants more information regarding these services, please contact us at info@threemillennia.com.
I booked a "shared" tour of the Vatican, through SelectItaly.com, for Saturday May 26 - but no one else has signed up for this date yet. I hope some Slow Travelers will join us (or they won't do the tour!)
Posts: 53 | Location: Brooklyn, NY | Registered: 09 January 2007
Topic Closed
)
) . You send it in with the request for how many tickets, date, time request, etc. that you want and they respond with either accepted and a reservation number or denied. On the form, you must choose between, 8-9 am entry or 9 - 9:45 entry. You tell them that if your choice is not available then they can move your reservation around. There are no rules about the size of groups. I have gotten reservations for 2 people in both time slots and for groups in both time slots.
This run down makes it a lot easier to explain to my step-mom for our trip next year. Cindy
