I've been perusing Best Fares and see they have added a section of tips at destination. This is kind of an overview of do's and dont's in lovely Italia. It is interesting either as an eye opener or a refresher course for frequent travelers. Tips for Italy
other than sneakers or other sport-style shoes, these are considered inappropriate for all but the most casual of dining establishments.
I don't think any fashionable Italian woman worth her salt would dare ware anything OTHER than those uber-stylish gold-coloured sneakers at the moment!
quote:
The main meal usually consists of: antipasti, secondi (pasta or soup), primi (main dish),
And I hope my food doesn't come out in this order!
Sorry I'm nitpicking. But if you're going to give out "facts" at least check that the Italian is right!
I suppose I was never allowed into any dining establishment, with my choice of shoes! ^___^
Also, discussing politics and religion is a national pastime. There is a good reason not to discuss WWII, and that's that Italians often don't know a thing about it, unless they have been through it (in which case they will be ore than happy to discuss it).
I am not a big church goer, but I never-ever covered my head in one, niehter I was ever asked to or looked down upon.
A small tip may be appropriate, but it's not required in any way.
Roses should be in groups of three or dozens (3, 6, 9, 12, 18, 24, 36), other flowers are never counted.
Italians can have up to 8 or 9 coffees throughout the day, one with breakfast, one after lunch, and several throughout the day. "Le'ts go for a coffee" is a usual way to declare a break, or invite someone out for a little chat.
"Senta" is a mildly insulting way to talk to people, it implies that you have not been taken care of before. if yo are asking for the check, better to say "Mi scusi" or simply "Il conto, per favore". If after half an hour the bill is not there yet, you can start saying "Senta!". Also, the most efficent way to pay at a restaurant is to walk to the counter and ask for the bill there.
From a lifetime of reading, alas: about 80% of what we read is not true. Normal human errors are unavoidable and we all make them, but the bulk of the errors I see (and then repeated, repeated until they gain a sort of currency) are essentially intentional: a combination of a distaste for Truth when She gets in the way of what is thought to be a good story, or the ego of the writer imparting some kind of "secret" which is not known to the rest of us often because it's just plain not so — and laziness, picking up stuff (without checking) from the previous writer of such a bent.
And the little things, including spelling (at least in a published item), are not nitpicking: they're the tip-off to the slovenliness of the rest.
One of the wonderful things about the present board, is that very very little is allowed to pass that is inaccurate.
and laziness, picking up stuff (without checking) from the previous writer of such a bent.
I think that's really most of it. The writer in question went out to supper with a friend. The writer heard his friend use "senta," and assumed that's what one does. The writer didn't bother to think about it, about his friend's innate boorishness, or ignorance, or whatever. Or perhaps they HAD been waiting for an overly long time. In any case, the SOMEWHAT correct (in that it might be the thing in SOME situations) information then gets passed on as the UNIVERSAL thing.
Thanks! Bucky "Trying To Slow Down" Edgett
Posts: 750 | Location: Maryland | Registered: 24 April 2006
I don't know, it didn't sound too bad to me. Wouldn't you say about 90% of it is good advice for a first time traveler? Some of the "inaccuracy" is due to poor writing: "Coffee or tea is generally served only after meals (except breakfast) and cappuccino or other milk/coffee drinks are also considered a breakfast drink." most likely should read: Unlike Americans, Italians don't usually serve coffee before or during a sit down meal; they reserve that for after the meal, almost as a separate course. The exception to this would be breakfast, when a cappuccino often serves as the meal itself! But a stop in a caffe for cappuccino -- in the morning, espresso in the afternoon or evening -- is always a welcome break from a busy schedule of work or sightseeing for natives and visitors alike.
Something along those lines? I bet most of the niggles we find could be similarly fixed. Not all, but most.
Thanks! Bucky "Trying To Slow Down" Edgett
Posts: 750 | Location: Maryland | Registered: 24 April 2006
Yes, on close read, it's not bad; but say someone reads this, knowing enough about things to spot one of the mistakes — will they be able to relax and believe the rest?
One of the wonderful things about the present board, is that very very little is allowed to pass that is inaccurate.
Bill,
I think your quote says it all! We are so well informed here at ST that inexperience or misinformation stands out like it came in bold, red and HIGHLIGHTED print!!
It wasn't totally bad but we were all able to pick out the errors...
Alice... I used "Il conto, per piacere" last year and was always answered with a smile and an pleasant nod.
We are good.... aren't we?!
Doug
Doug
ANCORA IMPARO
Posts: 2128 | Location: Winter Park, FL | Registered: 18 May 2005
Yes, we are good. When I supply a pretty good post with 90% good information, someone invariably amends it to repair the 10% that isn't quite right, or could be more useful: and we all learn by it — or at least I do.
One of the wonderful things about the present board, is that very very little is allowed to pass that is inaccurate.
Sorry to echo what has been already echoed but this is SO important to me. And as well as referring to accuarate facts and information, I applaud the poster who asked someone recently to please not type in what I call "MSN speak" without capital letters or punctuation. Yes we all accidently put in typos, my last good one was at 3.45am two mornings ago when work stress woke me ( I wrote "I will never type San Gimignano incorrectly again" fifty times across the Interactive whiteboard in my classroom when I got to work. ) Yeah right! However, the wealth of excellent knowledge (and good humor) that this constructive board has to offer in such an erudite manner just thrills me.
I don't think any fashionable Italian woman worth her salt would dare ware anything OTHER than those uber-stylish gold-coloured sneakers at the moment!
And ONLY if they have stilleto heels. We saw a woman pushing a stroller in Pompeii with stilleto boots on with all that uneven payment. I was then beginning to understand my Italian grandmother better: "Patrizia, how you wear these shoes?" (ie Nikes to my job as a chemist working with corrosive chemicals).
Posts: 3844 | Location: St Paul, MN | Registered: 10 February 2006
I feel that Tom does quite a disservice to his site, and to his site's users by publishing a shoddy list of "dos & don'ts". His credibility is now suspect. We can make all the excuses we like, but he puts it out there as "gospel" ... read the introduction to the article again:
" ... tips that will help to make you an even more savvy traveler."
"For years now, I've been providing you with tips that let you get more bang for your travel-buck."
I really like the recommendation that you lie to the restaurant owner to get a better seat.
As the person who supplied this link, I must admit that I agree with most of the resulting comments--that's what happens when you don't really read something and I apologize. The truth is that there is a lot of errancy in the list; however, I also agree that there are some good points that might be useful to first time travelers--of which there are many on this board. So--what I have learned is to in the future supply caveats when posting some things. Friend Bill is right in that on ST nothing slips by and that is a good thing and why this is a valuable forum.
. . . I really like the recommendation that you lie to the restaurant owner to get a better seat.
Well, as a newcomer to all this, just back from Italy, I enjoyed some of it. What seems old news to some is new to newbies of course. (Thanks, Jane.)
Some glaring inaccuracies aside, if correct it answers my question while trying to eat two 'full' (first and second courses per day) meals each day/night, "How do they eat so much?"
I felt guilty not eating a heavy 2nd, main plate (but most of the time I felt happy eating one).
Re the restaurant table-cheater, I first read this in Sandra Gustafson's "Great Eats Italy" (which I forgot to pack, of course). I don't know which iteration came first since I don't have her earlier editions before the recent rewrite.
From Gustafson's book:
quote:
"Solo diners, especially women, may be relegated to poor table locations. To avoid this as much as possible, reserve a table for two. Upon arrival, say your dining companion had to cancel at the last minute and tell the waiter how sad this makes you. It is amazing how well this works, and how much the service improves."
Errors there are, but I was more offended at the attitude that there is something wrong with being a single traveler and especially a single female traveler. If you are led to a bad table, just say no! Nobody pesters me when alone at a table, but I often do get to meet people at an adjoining table. That's how I found my first used car! Frankly, all the glittery gold sports shoes I am seeing have been on boys. The shoe stores are full of decorated espadrilles and sandals and they are sexy.
lol - Judith. Isn't it funny how different people see different things. Perhaps the gold shoes are more a student thing. I must say I saw more of them in Perugia than I am in Verona.
Jane, actually at least 70% of the suggestions were at least not wrong. But being what we are, we like to pick the bad ones and put them out in the broad light for dissection and public display. ^___^
Nobody pesters me when alone at a table, but I often do get to meet people at an adjoining table. That's how I found my first used car!
But Judith--you are one of a kind or at least a member of a unique and special club. People gravitate to you because you are a giver, sure of who you are and a reacher outer. By the time you were taken to a table, you would have befriended that person,learned about them and be given the best in the house!
I just sent a copy of that column to couple we will be travelling with in November.
While some of the information is incorrect, or not really researched very well, some of it can be helpful.
I'm thinking about the coffee comments in particular.
After travelling with 4 women friends last year, and having 3 of them order decaf cappuccino at dinner every night, I am hoping this gentle hint will help to avoid this request next time.
Jane, you are a flatterer! When I first starting traveling alone for business in the USA, I was taken for a possible prostitute at a motel and they almost drove me nuts checking up to see if I had someone in the room! I did-- my baby. After that I decided that I would be treated well, given good tables and respected. I am firm about these things. If a good table isn't available, I leave. The rest of it, well, people are interesting, right? What's the point if you don't chat up anyone who makes him/herself available? I have blank books for drawing pictures when the language is something like Arabic or Chinese. That's how I know the Arabic for camel. You are in the current book. I do not read books when eating alone. I don't pretend someone is joining me. I am a fully licensed human who happens to be lucky enough to travel a bit.
Debra, one of my pet peeves of these do and don't lists are the fact that the rules seem to be set in stone. Honestly, while most Italians would never think of ordering a cappuccino after dinner, travelers are not Italian so why worry about it. If someone wants a cappuccino after their meal, why not! They are in Italy, having a vacation.
Sometimes you will see a "rule" where it says never to order cappuccino or caffe latte after 10 am. I have sat with girlfriends (born and raised here in Vagliagli, a "town" of 600 people) having cappuccini at 4 in the afternoon while waiting for the school bus to drop off the kids.
Topic Closed
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I am hoping this gentle hint will help to avoid this request next time.