As I have mentioned in another thread, we are planning our next trip to Italy for June 2010. One of our musts is seeing some of the Emilia Romagna region, and I had thought we would base ourselves in Bologna to do that. I have gotten suggestions that we should consider Parma instead, so I am tossing this out for your consideration - Bologna or Parma? Now I am curious.

There may be other considerations, but the central location of Bologna is very attractive. It is a major train hub, for one thing.

You can easily day trip to Parma and other locations to the north. But by staying in Bologna you make some of the wonderful locations to the south much more accessible, such as Ferrara and the not-to-be-missed Ravenna.

Personally, I would want to have dinner every night in the wonderful restaurants of Bologna and have lunch on the day trips.

I agree with Stephen. If I had to pick between Parma and Bologna, I would choose Bologna. There is more to do, more sites and more shops. Plus it is a central location. Parma is a wonderful city and well. I would do Parma as a day trip.

Cyn

Marcia, I'm hoping you will get some more helpful answers than mine as I have not really visited Bologna (except to stop for one really fantastic meal there on the way to Florence). We did spend a little time in Parma, and I want to toot its horn. It was a last minute decision, spontaneous in that we had time to before our Venice apartment was available and we were having problems finding last-minute accommodations in Padua or Verona, among others.

All of this is to say it wasn't planned visit, we hadn't done any research or had any idea of what we would do there. We ended up staying at a B&B out of town and taking the bus in, again due to the very last minute nature of our stop there.

We loved Parma, found we didn't have nearly enough time to do it justice. It's a lovely city with a very nice pedonale area. Traffic seemed much less noisy, fewer honks honking, etc. than in Florence and other cities. The Duomo is worth a visit, as is Teatro Farnese and Teatro Regio, there was a charming puppet museum where we had essentially a private tour and we were welcome to take pictures and had a try at working a marionette. The food was fabulous, the university atmosphere delightful. If I went again, I would try to stay in town in order to enjoy the evening more (buses to the suburbs after about 7:00 were a bit of a hassle).

Now I hope you get other information about Bologna to help me in planning our next trip.

Ciao
Roberta

Bologna is a central position and is a major railway hub, while Parma has not so many connections. But IMHO Parma is nicer and much more relaxed than Bologna.

quote:

Personally, I would want to have dinner every night in the wonderful restaurants of Bologna and have lunch on the day trips.

Restaurants are a very important factor in our trips to Italy. We thought that that objective would be fulfilled during a six-day stay in Bologna there two years ago. We were somewhat disappointed in those where we had either a lunch or dinner. That’s not to say these were not good, just not great and some were forgetable. Perhaps da Gigino was the most enjoyable followed by Camminetto d’Oro, Al Cambio and Godot Wine Bar.

Negatively coloring my opinion of the restaurants in Bologna was Diane. It was recommended to us by a friend who is an expatriate American Professor at the Bologna Medical School. Too, it was mentioned by Mario Battali as being one of his favorites in Bologna. If you decide to go to Bologna, do not go to Diane! So it goes.

During our stay in Bologna, the best restaurant by far was the Hosteria Giusti in Modena.

Two restaurants that are very memorable in Parma were Parizzi and La Greppia. Parizzi was more “creative” while La Greppia was more traditional. If I had to choose between the two, it would be La Greppia. But what a choice!

The countryside outside of Parma is lovely and it seems that in almost every town there is a castle to visit. Restaurants in the countryside that we liked a great deal were Locanda Mariella in Calestano, La Buca in Zibello and topping this list was the Locanda Del Falco in the beautiful Rivalta Castle which is south of Piacenza ( http://tinyurl.com/nae8g2 ). After lunch in Zibello we stopped for coffee in Busseto and were almost sorry that we did not have lunch at the Sapori della Bassa, where only salumi and cheeses with small side dishes are served. Naturally, bread and wine is available.

I wonder if you took a look at the Parma panoramas at www.arounder.com ?

It is 2 ½ hour drive to Alba from Parma, under 90 minutes to Torino for the day trip, two hours from Alba to Stresa and under an hour from Stresa to Malpensa. The drive to Alba could be a real delight! I might make a day of it and take the secondary and tertiary roads and look forward to a little adventure. Serendipity comes to mind.

If you could leave at the end of May, you could plan a day in Ferrara to take in the Palio there. It is easier to get there from Bologna than from Parma.

Bologna has been getting a lot of PR lately, but it does not come up to its press in my opinion.There are many other cities in the North that I would prefer visiting.

Peter

La Buca at Zibello is an outstanding restaurant (but difficult to reach without a car). In Parma I would suggest Corale Verdi, a choral society owning a small concert hall and a garden restaurant (!) near the Toscanini museum.

quote:

Originally posted by itarchivarius:
Bologna is a central position and is a major railway hub, while Parma has not so many connections. But IMHO Parma is nicer and much more relaxed than Bologna.

The point I was going to make (albeit I have less experience of Parma, but it did feel very appealing when I went there).

Marcia
I guess the question is turned back as:
- Do you want to travel widely, taking in Ferrara, Parma, Modena, Ravenna, Faenza, Florence... or would Modena, Reggio, Bologna and maybe some countryside be enough in the way of side-trips?

regards

Ian

Good question, Ian (and thoughtful notes, thanks to all). I see us, at this stage of planning, based in Bologna, with a car, so day trips at least to Parma and Ravenna, not sure past that. No need for Florence, we have been there before and will be back on other trips, I'm sure.

I love the beginning stages of trip planning.

Hi, Marcia. We will be in Parma (2) days and Bologna for 6 days in September instead of making Parma just a day trip. So many of our ST buddies seem to love Parma that we decided to split our time between the two, and Bologna will serve as our base to explore Verona, Ravenna, etc. I promise to report in when we return.

Nancy

This is a tough one Marcia. Of course if you had the time Nancy's solution of staying both places would be ideal. They are very different cities. Parma is elegant and sophisticted, Bologona busy and vibrant. Both have great restaurants and Bologna has the wonderful food markets. Although not ideal, I do think you could get a good sense of Parma from a day trip. We had a day and a half and felt we covered the highlights.

For me, ease of transport is important. So just as I chose to stay in Sorrento as a base to see some of the Amalfi coast, though it is not my favorite town in that area, I would opt for Bologna for that reason. But you can't go wrong with either choice. I love these kind of "happy dilemmas" when planning a trip!

I am liking all of your comments, and may give Nancy's idea some serious consideration. If we tweak the still amoebic intinerary, we could spend a few nights in Parma (which is closer to the Milan airport where we arrive in the early evening), then base ourselves in Bologna for several days as well. This might make Torino the day trip, but . . . ."happy dilemmas indeed!"

Any hotel suggestions for either place?

quote:

Any hotel suggestions for either place?

In Bologna we stayed in at Hotel Metropolitan (Via dell'Orso, 6. 051/229393. www.hotelmetropolitan.com.) The hotel is well-positioned and was recently refurbished.

On Jane's suggestion, we stayed here in Parma and really loved it's charm, unbeatable location and host. It is only 2 hours from the Milan airport from this location, making it a good spot for a first or last stop of your trip.

Mindy's review of Al Capello Rosso in Bologna is right on. Again an unbeatable location, great staff and a very good breakfast buffet. Not a charming boutique hotel but very comfortable with all the ammenities you could wish for including free internet in the lobby. If you decide to do any touring with Marcello of Bluone tours, I bet he would book a room for you at a discounted rate as he does so much business with them.

Marcia
A thought. If you have a car, then breaking the trip up into smaller chunks is easier. Staying a couple of nights in a lovely B&B or agriturismo outside of Parma and the remainder outrside of Bologna is certainly feasible.

Getting somewhere outside of the city, but on a good bus route (or identifying convenient parking on the outskirts of town) is also worth looking for.

I have stayed on the outskirts of Bologna before (last year) though despite being good, I suspect there are better places. FWIW it was www.ilcavicchio.it based on the outskirts of Rastignano (a suburb south of Bologna). Certainly fairly handy for bus & not bad for train - it would be good with a car.

regards

Ian

Hi Marcia, you've gotten so much great advice here I probably don't have a lot to add.

But last month, I spent the first 3 nights of my trip in Parma, followed by a week in Bologna and 3 nights in Ferrara.

That worked really well for me -- I felt as if I got a better sense of Parma and Ferrara by staying a few nights in each. And Bologna really was a marvellous hub for day trips, as well as an interesting city in its own right.

(I had a remarkable night at the opera when I was in Bologna; the people around me, obviously longtime season-ticket holders, talked to me and around me non-stop through the performance. They wouldn't accept that I couldn't speak Italian and insisted on drawing me into their conversations!)

I intend to write reviews soon, but I was really pleased with Hotel Torino in Parma http://www.hotel-torino.it/index.php?lingua=en. I loved the look of Palazzo Dalla Rosa Prati, mentioned above by Colleen, but as a solo traveler, it was a bit beyond my means.

And in Bologna, I was really impressed with Art Hotel Orologio http://www.art-hotel-orologio.it/index_en.html. Fantastic location, big breakfast, great room and service.

Best of luck planning!
Sandra

HI Marcia

I think whether you would prefer Parma or Bologna more depends a lot on what kind of city you feel comfortable in. They are very different- Parma has very wide boulevards and electric trolleys and has more of a town feel to it. Bologna is very much a medieval city. We were very keen to see Bologna but we didn't actually care for it that much. The graffitti everywhere really turned us off, and except for the people who worked at our B&B, we found the people a little snarly. All kinds of things can enter into these experiences when you travel(husband starting to get sick, frequent rain), so another time we might enjoy Bologna- you never know.

One of the things you mentioned was that you were going to have a car in Bologna if you stay there for side trips. Bologna is not an easy city to have a car in both for parking and for just getting in and out. Think Florence! If you are going to use a car for your side trips, Parma might actually be a better choice since the train connections in Bologna are not a consideration then.

If you do choose Bologna you should check the reviews both on this site and tripadvisor for
Hotel Porta San Mamalo. For us it was the best thing about Bologna! Good luck with your planning!

Since my whole entire family is from Provincia di Parma or the city of Parma, I feel utterly qualified to say this --

Bologna. I love Parma, but I would stay in Bologna -- and maybe do Parma for a day.

Marcia, we stayed for 6 days in Bologna (trip report here) and never wanted a car. The train service is so good and easy that we liked not having to struggle with traffic for day trips, worrying about ZTL areas, etc. If you did want to do some things in the countryside that might require a car, I think the idea of splitting the stay would be good and only have a car when you are outside the city. Bologna is really easier to get around and experience the city if you stay centrally and walk a lot.

By the way, we did not have unpleasant experiences like lkmaloney reports in Bologna. I don't even remember that much graffiti, at least not in the main historic areas.

We did love Parma, a very beautiful city, where we only spent a day. But it is definitely worth more time.

- Roz

A car in Bologna is a great inconvenience while it is a big help in Parma for entering and leaving the city.

There are good connections for train travel from Parma, but not as good as those in Bologna.

Exploring by walking in both Parma and Bologna is a terrific experience. Both offer a great deal. However, Parma’s “compactness” makes walking a real delight. I recall that Parma has wonderful cafes with outdoor seating while Bologna has a few which we enjoyed, but the ones in Parma were a bit more comfortable and very well located to enjoy the passing scenery.

To get a better ideal what I am suggesting, I ask again for you to view www.arounder.com , especially #9.

Prati was our first choice of hotels but our dates had no availability. I still receive emails from the proprietor. However, one should be aware that the timely ringing of the church bells across the piazza might cause a noise problem. Too, there is no breakfast served—nada, which could present a problem for some. This wouldn’t have bothered us at all as it would just have given us a chance to sit outside for a coffee and a sweet. Parking would be a bit of a problem too, whereas the hotel we chose (Grand Hotel de la Ville) has excellent parking. Leaving and returning to this hotel by car to visit the countryside is very easy. But, I guess the hotels which I recommended elsewhere for other cities have been rejected out of hand as you again request suggestions for hotels.

Training to two delightful cities—Ravenna and Ferrara—is much easier from Bologna.
That is offset by a bit over an hour’s drive to Mantua through the countryside on secondary roads. There is a great deal to see there and an outstanding restaurant for lunch: Ristorante Aquila Nigra. Also, Cremona, while not in ER, would be worth the hour’s drive from Parma.
No matter which restaurant you choose, be prepared to enjoy the very best prosciutto and parmigiano reggiano at virtually at every meal.

I look forward to your reactions to these and former suggestions by me and others.

Peter

Peter,
I do appreciate your advice and suggestions, but I have not rejected anything out of hand yet, and in rereading your first post, I see several restaurant suggestions, but perhaps I have missed something about hotels? We are truly in the beginning stages of planning this trip and it will be several weeks before I probably move any farther, in part because until we make our return reservations with AA, I still don't know how many days I will have to make decisions about.

Roz, I very much appreciate your comments about whether to have a car or not - clearly something to think about as we make these plans. I had thought that having a car to make daytrips from Bologna would be a good idea, but perhaps not? One thing is that we arrive in Milan in the early evening and I don't see us doing the transfer from the airport to the train station, then on to either city with the jet lag - we have done it once and I think having the car then would be easier. Or perhaps a car service from the airport. We did very nicely without a car on the Amalfi Coast last summer. We could then get the car when we are leaving Bologna for the rest of our trip.

Like I have said, it's all a work in progress,

quote:

Peter,
I do appreciate your advice and suggestions, but I have not rejected anything out of hand yet, and in rereading your first post, I see several restaurant suggestions, but perhaps I have missed something about hotels? We are truly in the beginning stages of planning this trip and it will be several weeks before I probably move any farther, in part because until we make our return reservations with AA, I still don't know how many days I will have to make decisions about.

This was posted in your other thread which is very closely related to this thread.

"We think that the Villa & Palazzo Aminta in Stresa is one of the nicest hotels we have ever stayed in. The Baglioni in Bologna was excellent, even though Bologna was a bit of a disappointment. That is why I recommended Parma as a base, which has a great deal to speak for it. Especially the restaurants and the ease of walking all over the city. Plus the countryside around Parma abounds in excellent places to visit. In Parma we enjoyed the Grand Hotel de la Ville. Never stayed in Torino overnight but have visited it several times. If I were planning a stay in Torino I would consider the Grand Hotel Sitea."

Peter

Thanks for the clarification. I do remember looking at these, and again, thank you.

quote:

One thing is that we arrive in Milan in the early evening and I don't see us doing the transfer from the airport to the train station, then on to either city with the jet lag.

It seems as though it might make more sense to have a car on the front end of the trip, then end up in Bologna. You could drop the car there, then train back to Milan for your return flight.

Really, I think it is a lot easier to train from Bologna for day trips. Trains to every city you'd likely want to visit are quite frequent. No hassles with getting lost, finding parking, etc., and much more relaxing for the driver.

We found it useful to print out schedules from the trenitalia web site before we left home so that we had an idea of when the trains left and could plan each day accordingly.

- Roz

Roz, thanks for pointing out something I hadn't seen, putting Bologna at the end - though right now in my head I'm thinking we want to do the cities first, then end with time in the country and the lake, more of a decompression. Have I asked you where you stayed in Bologna?

One thing I am certain of, thanks to all of this great advice, once it all falls into place, it will be wonderful.

Marcia, we stayed right near Piazza Maggiore (Al Cappello Rosso Hotel. It's quite a walk to the train station. Just a heads up!

Pokey

Distance from the train station isn't a big issue--you can always take a taxi.

One more consideration for you, Marcia.

The weather.

I've heard it gets very hot in Bologna by late June. Early June, when you are arriving, would be nicer, I think, for a city trip. Leaving the countryside until later/warmer, more relaxing weather may be smarter but you know the weather is totally unpredictable

jan

quote:

Have I asked you where you stayed in Bologna?

We stayed at the Hotel Paradise, based on a recommendation here, and were quite pleased with it. We thought the location and staff were both excellent, and it was a good value. We actually had a small apartment, which was nice. My only criticism was that the room was dark, but that wasn't a dealbreaker.

Actually, Marcia, one thing I meant to mention to you is that when traveling to Bologna, you should plan your dates if possible not to coincide with the frequent trade fairs there. You can find a calendar here. The hotel rates will go up by at least 50% during a fair.

- Roz

Thanks Roz, excellent point - I looked at the calendar and so far they have a provisional list for 2010 that only goes to the end of May - guess I will keep checking back, maybe it will be extended in August.

quote:

We found it useful to print out schedules from the trenitalia web site before we left home so that we had an idea of when the trains left and could plan each day accordingly.

What a great idea! Why didn't I think of that?

Thanks, Roz.

Nancy

We now have our return flight reservations and I can really begin the planning.

Currently thinking, based on our evening arrival at Malpensa, that we might spend our first two nights at a B&B or agriturismo outside Parma, then 5 nights in Bologna. After that we will spend a few nights in Torino and the rest of our time somewhere to be determined in Piemonte.

I always have a difficult time choosing between Parma and Bologna. Both are wonderful. I like your idea of both.

Parma is closer from Malpensa and is a great place to start. The food is fabulous in Parma (in my opinion even better than Bologna). I had one of my best meals of my trip in Parma this summer.

Bologna is easier to do without a car. Great bus system and train connections. I would recommend both Hotel Porta San Mamolo and Hotel Orologio . Hotel Porta San Mamolo is a 10 minute walk from the center and Hotel Orologio is smack dab in Piazza Maggiore. I think there is free parking (but not sure) at Hotel Porta San Mamolo if you do have a car and pretty cheap parking somewhere nearby for Hotel Orologio (not sure on the price but did overhear directions to another guest about car parking passes).

Sounds like you have a great trip planned! Torino is another one of my favorite cities in Italy.