I was chatting with my husband and sister last night, and we realized that we shared some perplexion (is that a word?!) about Italian customs.
1) Showers. No matter how many stars a hotel has, we have none of us experienced a shower in Italy where the water did not end up all over the bathroom floor due to oddities in the its design. Do Italians simply not shower much, preferring to bathe, thus reducing their knowledge of shower technology? If they shower, do they usually use a handheld shower, enabling them to avoid the inevitable gaps in the stall design? Or is water all over the floor simply regarded as a normal part of the showering experience? Or, perhaps we have all been victims of an extraordinary run of bad luck, having installed ourselves only in hotels with poor shower designs, inexplicably bypassing the myriads of Italian hotels with perfectly enclosed showers. Thoughts?
2) Italian birthday cakes. We have collectively experienced 3 birthday celebrations in Italian restaurants, at which the honoree was a woman. Individual birthday cakes, lit with 1 candle, were brought out at all 3 dinners. Charmingly, cakes were brought out not only for the honoree, but for all the women at the table in each instance. Candles were blown out, and the cakes whisked away to the kitchen, presumably to be cut and served. But in none of the 3 instances did the cakes ever reappear! This was perplexing rather than disturbing- other desserts had been ordered, and in each case the cake was an unexpected surprise addition to the menu. Nevertheless, we all wondered about the disappearing cakes. So, what gives here? Are birthday cakes not really an Italian custom, and are they simply making a game effort to satisfy the whims of American diners for whom such cakes might be considered customary? Are they perhaps ersatz cakes, held in the back for just such occasions? Have we again experienced an odd series of random occurrences? Thoughts, please.
Thanks for letting me think out loud here. We're truly puzzled, and would love some other insights!
quote:Or is water all over the floor simply regarded as a normal part of the showering experience?
I prefer to think of thisw as an amazing labor saving device saving the hotel cleaning crew couontless hours thereby allowing them time for a more leisurely lunch. They don't have to fill a mop bucket to clean the bathroom floors!
At one hotel in Florence that we stayed at the idea was furthered to include washing the carpets in the room of the hotel as well! Our shower consisted of a nozzle int he ceiling in the middle of a curtained enclosure with the drain hole several feet away fromt he shower area. No sill or any other type of barrier was there. The bathroom was raised above the bedroom floor and the floor also tilted away from the drain. The shower water ran out in a gusher to the bedroom. Luckily they provided us with absorbent towels which, instead of being used to dry our bodies and hence being made dirty, were employed as a barrier to prevent a soggy bedroom.
Meet my lawyer-- Gianni Schicchi! {fixing quote}
[This message was edited by Pauline on 08 May 2003 at 11:19 AM.]
Posts: 4612 | Location: Casa del Fenicottero Rosa, Silver Spring, MD USA | Registered: 06 August 2002
My favorite is the all-cleaning shower whereby everything in the bathroom is showered because there is no stall or curtain. I am not especially fond of freshly showered toilet paper,but when in Rome....
Posts: 655 | Location: Maine | Registered: 23 November 2002
I really don't know what to tell you regarding the showers. I've travelled quite a lot, also in the USA three times, and I really can't see any big difference there. Regarding Birthday cakes I can tell you what my personal experiences are. Usually when you go to a restaurant either you bring a big cake with you or you order one directly from the restaurant. In case, for whatever reason, you don't do this you usually ask the waiter if you can have maybe a small desert and just add a candle to it. This is just an excuse for singing a nice "Tanti Auguri" to the festeggiato and maybe eating the cake somewhere else or in another occasion.
My shower experience is quite siilar to Ako's. Everytime I go abroad (at least in Europe) I find more or less the same situation: showers with neither "boxes" nor curtains, often handheld showers with no hook to hang them to the wall, etc. Worst of all, NO BIDET and (at least in the Uk) too little hot water!!! If you want to know want do Italians have in their houses' bathrooms, check out http://www.peduzzi.it/bagno.html. It is a toilet and kitchen furniture shop near my house.
Alice Twain --
Sciur capitan, questa che l’è la verità, adess ghe n’hoo piee i ball, Giovanni el turna a cà. Se te voret scriv te regali la mia pena, se te voret sparam questa l’è la mia schena.
Mr capitain, this is the truth Now I am sick of it, Giovanni goes back home If you want to write to me, I’ll give you my pencil If you want to shoot me, here’s my back.
quote:Originally posted by ako: In case, for whatever reason, you don't do this you usually ask the waiter if you can have maybe a small desert and just add a candle to it. This is just an excuse for singing a nice "Tanti Auguri" to the festeggiato and maybe eating the cake somewhere else or in another occasion.
Indeed, this is what we normally do in the States. None of us had experienced anything similar in Italy, however, just the funny fake-out cakes. Perhaps this is merely an odd coincidence.
I only run into those types of showers in Italy. Switzerland and England have great bathrooms.
I think Italians shower differently than the typical American. They must turn on the water and hose down, then turn it off and soap up, then turn it on and wash off - what we call a boy scout shower. I do that in Italy, but still flood the floors.
My theory is that Italian women are forever cleaning and they just mop up the whole bathroom after a shower (and sometimes the bedroom). The men never even notice a flooding problem.
quote:Originally posted by Pauline: They must turn on the water and hose down, then turn it off and soap up [...].
We don't. Allright, I can say so for only a bunch of people: basically myself, Luca, my mom, a (very) few former boyfriends and my friend Luisella. I haven't showered with anyone else ^_^ In any case, anyomne who I have showered with (or whose shower I have winessed) just did it the regular way. Also I have sometimes found curtainless showers only at guesthouses, B&B and rented rooms all over Europe. In Greece there is often only the handheld "showerpiece" and a hole in the floor ^_^. And NO BIDET! I invented the "Greek bidet", but I guess you're not all that interested in my Personal Hygiene Practices when Travelling in Grece.
quote:My theory is that Italian women are forever cleaning [...]. The men never even notice a flooding problem.
This is all very, very, very true... At least for SOME women and MOST men (including my mother in law and my beloved Luca).
Alice Twain --
Sciur capitan, questa che l’è la verità, adess ghe n’hoo piee i ball, Giovanni el turna a cà. Se te voret scriv te regali la mia pena, se te voret sparam questa l’è la mia schena.
Mr capitain, this is the truth Now I am sick of it, Giovanni goes back home If you want to write to me, I’ll give you my pencil If you want to shoot me, here’s my back.
The reason Americans don't have bidets, is that they shower every day (at least once) and can do the complete genital area wash then (am I being too graphic?). Being from a British/Irish family, we were more into having a bath every few days and not so much into daily cleanliness. Some of my Macrobiotic study has suggested that daily bathing is not that healthy - but I don't think you could convince your average American of that.
quote:Originally posted by Pauline: The reason Americans don't have bidets, is that they shower every day (at least once)
So do most Italians, now. Obviously I doubt that 100 years ago all Maricans did shower every day, as well as Italians did not shower every day. Yet, everyone had a bath as often as they could. My grand-grandfather did not bathe everyday, he did it once or twice a week. His brohers in the deepth of the Psrma countryside had a large water container all painted black for warming the water in summer, connected to a shower, so that they could have a daily shower at least in summer (when it is more needed, especially working in the fields). My father (who has grown up in a "a shower each day" modern world and house) said they all smelled more than clean, they smelled of soap! Yet even showering or bathin _at_least_ once a day, I still feel the need to clean up a bit more specifically from time to time, for instance I couldn't have a full shower at the office!!!
By the way, do you know that Italy has a very high number of skin diseases due to excessive hygiene? Doctors on Tv have to constatly point out that washing too often is alsmost as bad as not washing enough, because the skin loses its protective oils layer, which can cause rashes and other diseases.
Alice Twain --
Sciur capitan, questa che l’è la verità, adess ghe n’hoo piee i ball, Giovanni el turna a cà. Se te voret scriv te regali la mia pena, se te voret sparam questa l’è la mia schena.
Mr capitain, this is the truth Now I am sick of it, Giovanni goes back home If you want to write to me, I’ll give you my pencil If you want to shoot me, here’s my back.
Even in Peru I used to shower everyday!!! And we have bidets, too. I guess we have no Brazilians members here, otherwise they will be expressing their surprise! They shower not once but twice and even more, a day, depending of the "circumstances"
"Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza..."
"I sing to life, to its beauty, to each of its wounds and each of its caresses..."
Posts: 1831 | Location: New York, New York | Registered: 21 December 2002
quote:Originally posted by Pauline: Some of my Macrobiotic study has suggested that daily bathing is not that healthy - but I don't think you could convince your average American of that.
Well, Pauline, speaking as a person who is in the "old people" business I can tell you that when you reach "a certain age" daily bathing is absolutely harmful, not just un-healthy. Most of the old, old (80s and above) have extremely thin skin that can bruise or tear just by gently touching it. Drying baths take what little protective oils their bodies can still produce. In nursing homes, people are given "P&B" baths at least daily for hygiene and complete baths no more than twice a week depending on skin condition.
Deborah Horn
In a previous life I was an Umbrian sunflower farmer. I'd like to do a past life regression and stay there. ----------------------------------- Marketing Solutions for Health Care
Posts: 5028 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: 04 September 2001
On the birhtday cake subject, I do have some recent experience I can share. A local pub/restaurant that I frequent found out that it was my birthday (Craig's as well). So the owner got us a cake and ordered us to stop by at any point the night of our b-day. We stopped by after our lovely planet hollywood experience. Michy (short for Michelangelo), the owner, brought over to the table a massive cake with two candles. Blew them out and off the cake disapeared. However, moments later we had a piece of the actuall cake and not a different desert. And it tasted great! What made it even better was that the cake and a round of prosecco was on the house.
Tony Polzer Tour Operator 3 Millennia Tours www.threemillennia.com tony@threemillennia.com
Posts: 1225 | Location: Rome, Italy; Zagreb, Croatia | Registered: 12 February 2003
Tony- Happy Birthday! I read your account in your other post, and it sure sounds like the cake was a great capper to your evening, 'specially following your Planet Hollywood experience!
My own bizarre experience with the cake happened at the Enotecha Pinchiorri in Firenze. What a meal! Can't even remember all the courses, but it seems like there were, like, 3 different dessert courses. So we were hardly lacking for desserts, but we girls could not help but wonder where the cake had gone to! (I was the "lucky" recipient of the extra cake, as the only other woman at the table other than the birthday girl)
On the shower subject, I guess I have been rather lucky all of my experiences in Italy have been fine. However that is not the case with the rest of Europe. My only problem here, is these way to small water heaters. I love very hot and very long showers. Can't do that here. Sometimes, I think the coffee pot can produce more hot water then the furnaces can.
Tony Polzer Tour Operator 3 Millennia Tours www.threemillennia.com tony@threemillennia.com
Posts: 1225 | Location: Rome, Italy; Zagreb, Croatia | Registered: 12 February 2003
When North Americans travel to Europe (and Asia) for the first time, they are startled, surprised and bemused to experience the huge "diversity" of European or Asian hotel bathrooms. Why? Because virtually all North American hotels from budget to luxury are configured (laid out) in an almost identical fashion; are almost always roughly the same size (give or take a foot or two); and come equipped with virtually identical "standard" hotel bathroom fixtures: a full-length bathtub with a mounted shower head and a full-length shower curtain to keep the water inside the tub; a toilet; and a sink with a vanity and a large mirror (but no bidet). All the pipes are hidden (no water heater hanging on the wall) and, with rare exceptions, there is an endless supply of hot water and good strong water pressure in all hotel bathrooms. (If not, you change hotels!)
Why did all of North America adopt one standard, universal hotel bathroom type while Europe (and England, Asia) have so many variations? I don't know. Ours may be all alike because of 20th century hotel construction building codes adopted by North American cities, or maybe builders figured out that a standard bathroom layout was simply more cost-effective or easier to install.
What I do know is that North America is blessed with an excellent water supply (Canada has the world's largest supply of fresh water), we are also extremely fortunate that the plumbing (and electrical or gas heating) infrastructure of our cities was largely designed early in the 20th century. We also may have been just plain lucky to have had very clever engineers who managed to get it right. I tease my English and European friends that "plumbing and heating" are two of those little basics in life that North America has got down pat -- quite possibly the only two things we're the best at!
But let's acknowledge another truth: we North Americans are notorious for wasting water (and electricity, gas, etc.) because, well, we can. I blush to admit that our greed knows no bounds. Our challenge in the 21st century may well be to learn from Europeans and others how to be far more frugal in our use of precious non-renewal natural resources and far, far more environmentally conscious.
Some of this discussion is reminding me of the very funny cultural differences between Parisians and North Americans in Adam Gopnik's "Paris to the Moon". We have been taught that mother-child bonding is absolutely imperative after birth, whereas Parisian nurses sternly informed his wife that she must leave the newborn with a caretaker and go out dancing with her husband on her first night home from the hospital!
I hope that we continue to learn from one another!
I vividly remember my first trip to Europe at 19 for many reasons. One of them was because of this round low bowl next to the toilet in the bathroom. My girlfriend and I looked at each other since we were young sophisticates from NYC and said, "What is that?" Mama never told us all we obviously needed to know. So being practical we proceeded to wash our underwear in it on a daily basis!
We still have many laughs about that one.
Edna
Posts: 312 | Location: Irvington, New York | Registered: 28 July 2001
About three years ago there was a very long and quite funny thread on the AOL board about the various alternative uses for the bidet. I think it got up to more than 100 posts. Colleen, do you remember that one? I recall that a few of the suggestions were: Chilling champagne; bathing a baby; built in water bowl for dog; soaking feet; washing undies; sailing toy boats; floating rubber duckies; for a man to "cool things off"; keeping flowers fresh until room service brings up a vase; and a magazine rack.
Deborah Horn
In a previous life I was an Umbrian sunflower farmer. I'd like to do a past life regression and stay there. ----------------------------------- Marketing Solutions for Health Care
Posts: 5028 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: 04 September 2001
Yes, Deborah, I do remember that thread ... Including the very explicit and detailed instructions on using one!
It's so funny to get caught up on the board and read this topic. I swear, just this morning I was appreciating the enclosed shower stall in my hotel bathroom and comparing it to some in Italy!
Posts: 14290 | Location: The Beautiful San Francisco Bay Area | Registered: 06 August 2001
I'm sure I am late on this, because I have reversed the trend and gone to America to visit. I don't get why people think bidets are for people who don't wash. Italians wash themselves, their clothes and everything in the house constantly. My neighbors mop their floors every day. I presume they wash down the bath everyday as well. Bidets are useful for washing even more often than Americans wash, and I am deeply grateful that my poor little Italian house in the country has a bidet. Bidets are also very useful for watering plants from the bottom. I stayed in a B&B in Florence for my early flight and the shower was very American -- in a big tub and with enormous flapping shower curtains. Last fall in le Marches I had the shower mate to the one mentioned above with a raised bathroom and the shower head inexplicably over the toilet although the room was large enough to separate it. The paper was tucked over the light fixture above the sink across the room for one's convenience, the brass holder was empty. The water ran under the door unless blocked by the towel. Maybe by the time we all get really old, Blue Copper will become cheap enough to use all over and we'll be able to shower everyday? Maybe the Italian government will give me a work permit to allow me to dry out all the hotel bathrooms in Italy? Anyway, bathroom fixtures are available in more variety here than in the US and at prices that are more like the wholesale I used to pay than the retail USians pay. Bathroom elegance and dryness are available, so I don't know why bathrooms should be so splashy in hotels. I don't
Slow Travel Talk 
