is it socially offensive to offer fuel-station attendants tips? Most often we pump the fuel ourselves (self-serv) but last several times we've allowed attendants to pump and when we tried to give them tips afterwards they refused to accept it... I know at restaurants, while not required, if we received good service we always tip and it's always appreciated.

curious,
ling

Perhaps things have changed. I usually round up to the Euro and have only been waved off once to the best of my recollection. I think it was on the A1 where the rules might be different? OK, Cristina, Rebecca, Bill & Patty- your experiences and opinions, please.

To be honest the thought has never crossed my mind to tip there. I asked my husband and he said no not to tip.

Moving to Italy and Driving in Italy

With all due resepct, I have never been able to understand this obsession to tip everyone. The attendant at a gas station?

What about the cashier at the grocery store, the lady who sells roast chicken at the market, the guy at toll booth on the Autostrade, the vendors at the Arezzo antique market, the bus driver in Rome, the vet when he gives our cats shots, the cashier at the cinema, the plumber who replaced our water pump, the sales clerk at the Prada outlet? Where does it stop?

I know the question was asked with sincerity, but come on! Seriously, these people all have jobs and are paid fair wages - does it make one feel better to give them money?

Bill & Patty Sutherland
Tuscan Women Cook
Montefollonico, Italy

Geez Bill, I thought you folks living out in the country in Tuscany were relaxed and laid back?!

Ling, it would never occur to me to tip just for pumping gas. But I can understand how you arrived at that - it does seem like a personal service and it must be near the top of the "Worst Jobs to Have" list. I have definitely seen my husband, his brother and friends offer a little something when they ask for extras like cleaning the windshield/windows, checking oil or air pressure, etc, but never for just pumping gas. Except for those poor souls who offer to pump for you at the self service stations after hours.

Steph

Webfabbrica di Roma
Web Design & Search Engine Optimization

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Geez Bill, I thought you folks living out in the country in Tuscany were relaxed and laid back?!

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We are relaxed - sorry for the rants and raves. I just do not understand the need to tip everyone today.

Saying all that, I did bring a Leatherman for my plumber, gave olive oil to my postman, gave an extra months wages to the contadino who helps here and a very nice bottle of French wine to a hotel owner. I do tip the hotel staff at La Costa after a week of classes here - and very well, indeed. The entire staff there knows exactly how we want our clients handled and they do go above their normal duties.

Guess I need to go get a glass of wine and settle down, huh?

Bill & Patty Sutherland
Tuscan Women Cook
Montefollonico, Italy

Steph (Webfabbrica) I'm sure one of the reasons I offer a tip at fuel stations is exactly as you suggested, "...a personal service and it must be near the top of the 'Worst Jobs to Have' list." Fyi, this has happened in the Centro not on the A1 (if it makes a difference).

Additionally having worked in the marketing field responsible for managing the delivery of exceptional customer service and assuring customer satisfaction, I've come to hold a high regard for being on the receiving end of "good customer service"... so offering a tip to someone who wasn't even expecting it, and only after providing some level of personal service, well it makes the gesture all the more meaningful.

Bill, I don't tip everyone ... typically cabies, hotel housecleaning, bellboys, bellcaps, lawncare service, grocery delivery, and fuel station attendants who offer personal service with no expectations, and do so with a smile I do like your manner of showing appreciation-- it's even more personal

"Saying all that, I did bring a Leatherman for my plumber, gave olive oil to my postman, gave an extra months wages to the contadino who helps here and a very nice bottle of French wine to a hotel owner. I do tip the hotel staff at La Costa after a week of classes here - and very well, indeed. The entire staff there knows exactly how we want our clients handled and they do go above their normal duties.

ciao ciao!
ling

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Originally posted by Ling in Italy:
Additionally having worked in the marketing field [...] offering a tip to someone who wasn't even expecting it, and only after providing some level of personal service, well it makes the gesture all the more meaningful.

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Be careful, in Italy sometimes tipping can be misunderstood and confused with "corruzione": paying for getting an extra service that goes beyond licit (or allowed); I don't know (or I don't remember now) the English word. So, be extra careful when tipping: some might be offended, some others might come back requesting more money for more (and more illicit or not allowed) services.

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Bill, I don't tip everyone ... typically cabies, hotel housecleaning, bellboys, bellcaps, lawncare service, grocery delivery, and fuel station attendants

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Never tip a cabbie: he is the owner of his own cab, not an underpaid employee.
What is a "bellcap"?
Lawncare service is nearly unknow in italy, AFAIK (but I am a city girl).
Grocery deliveries, first make sure who deals with them. In big cities it's some underpaid youngster or immigrant with a second hand moped; in small towns you are likely to receive your goods right from the shopowner (like my grandfater's brother in law did when he had his vegetables and fruits stall in the Mantova market).
Fuel attendants: only if they clean the front window with a clean rag (nad not a rag that they used to clean their hands first)

Alice Twain
--
I don’t want to take what you can’t give / I would rather starve than eat your bread
I would rather run but I can’t walk / Guess I’ll lie alone just like before
                Pearl Jam, Corduroy

Hi!

don't misunderstand me... but

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Be careful, in Italy sometimes tipping can be misunderstood and confused with "corruzione": paying for getting an extra service that goes beyond licit (or allowed); I don't know (or I don't remember now) the English word. So, be extra careful when tipping: some might be offended, some others might come back requesting more money for more (and more illicit or not allowed) services.

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Where did you get that from? Did it happen to you personally? Where do you live?
Was it bribery the word you were looking for?

ok, I am speaking from the position of a person who hates tipping, except maybe if in a restaurant I get an excellent service. But it has never never never occurred to me that I was in such a situation to be misunderstood. the only possibility that you can be misunderstood in that sense is that you offer me money to do something that I have already refused to do, I think.

I am really curious to know more about this impression you have had, or that experience.

One of the best things I am getting from this forum is the possibility to see how non-italians see us and our culture. I have the feeling that it is a mixture (from both sides) of what we see, what we think about ourselves and what we think about the others. It is really really interesting. I had never thought of so many of the things which I read here. It is great, honestly it is.

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Personally, I just round up to the nearest Euro. How much were you trying to give the person?

Saluti,
Brian

Cassina *** I posted this thread because I want to be sensitive to the cultural norms and expectations... tipping for good service performed may be an American condition I've grown accustomed to and after relocating here, I find myself continuing to tip, but doing so only when I feel it's an appropriate thing to do, however, given the last few times when attendants refused to accept (no more than 2euros)a tip, I started to wonder if it was an appropriate thing to do, perhaps I was offending them. I know looks are deceiving, but one person was elderly and didn't look very healthy, and the others were quite younger (m&f) but also gave me the impression that... well... that maybe they could use the money. I agree, getting responses from both sides is incredibly useful.

Brian *** the tips were never more than 2 euros.

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Originally posted by Casina di Rosa:
Where did you get that from? Did it happen to you personally? Where do you live?

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I live in Milano and spend a lot of time in Tuscany, and i witnessed this kind of reaction several times here in Milano. Not that I ever tip (I think that tipping is a horrible habit, a kind of excuse for underpaying people, therefore I only tip when abroat in countries where tipping in actually felt as a need). Anyhow, I was even offered tips (when working for the "censimento" over ten years ago) for doing my job. Back to your questions, as I said, I witnessed several people reacting thus here in Milano.

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Was it _bribery_ the word you were looking for?

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Yepppz!

Alice Twain
--
I don’t want to take what you can’t give / I would rather starve than eat your bread
I would rather run but I can’t walk / Guess I’ll lie alone just like before
                Pearl Jam, Corduroy

wow! "_bribery_"??? suspicious minds are always fascinating!... maybe hinging on the edge, but still fascinating!

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Originally posted by Ling in Italy:
wow! "_bribery_"??? suspicious minds are always fascinating!... maybe hinging on the edge, but still fascinating!

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In italy bribery is not so much suspicion as a way of life. Don't forget this. And some people overreact even to the slightest hint of it.

Alice Twain
--
I don’t want to take what you can’t give / I would rather starve than eat your bread
I would rather run but I can’t walk / Guess I’ll lie alone just like before
                Pearl Jam, Corduroy

Really? Wow... I am surprised, that's all.

I thought nobody would ever think you are trying to corrupt them with few euros and for something they have already done. Weird.
I didn't really expect that could happen.

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at Casina di Rosa - Holiday home in Tuscany

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Originally posted by Casina di Rosa:
I didn't really expect that could happen.

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Don't panic. Next time you feel like tipping the service man, just tell him to keep the change or handle the money to him and SPEED AWAY!

"Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza..."

"I sing to life, to its beauty, to each of its wounds and each of its caresses..."

I feel the same way as Casina... what could one expect (if the intention was bribery) from a 1 euro?? ok, twice it was a 2 euro and once the 2 euro was accepted! (maybe I'm tipping too low?).

Still, it raises an interesting subject, because the past few days my husband, in casual conversation with his Italian colleagues who live in Napoli...they said that "bribery" is very common (Im sure it's common everywhere, do they call it "quid pro quo" in the states?), but to those who oppose it, they are very offended at even the slightest suggestion of the intent to bribe (real or not), but definitely for more than 1 euro, and sometimes it's not money at all.... so I can imagine situations where tips can be misconstrued, but easier to imagine when it involves more than 1 euro.

Now, my nxt visit to the Esso or Agip is going to involve a lot of thought! "to tip or not to tip?" ... why am i feeling so guilty at the thought of NOT tipping???

buona notte tutti!

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Originally posted by Ling in Italy:
Now, my nxt visit to the Esso or Agip is going to involve a lot of thought! "to tip or not to tip?" ... why am i feeling so guilty at the thought of NOT tipping???

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You are not alone And if there is any consolation, I am in a worse situation because my guilty feeling also involves visiting the usual sunglasses and shoes shops. What I am going to do next time in Italy? Just eat? That makes me feel guilty too because I can't help but tip the waiters and a good water taxi driver, the guy that helps me with my luggage, etc. etc. I never thought my tips could be taken for bribery, although if I think hard, maybe that's why they treat me so well...

"Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza..."

"I sing to life, to its beauty, to each of its wounds and each of its caresses..."

[This message was edited by Westsider on 12 January 2004 at 02:00 PM.]

[This message was edited by Westsider on 12 January 2004 at 02:05 PM.]

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Originally posted by Westsider:
You are not alone And if there is any consolation, I am in a worse situation because my guilty feeling also involves visiting the usual sunglasses and shoes shops. What I am going to do next time in Italy? Just eat? That makes me feel guilty too because I can't help but tip the waiters and a good water taxi driver, the guy that helps me with my luggage, etc. etc. I never thought my tips could be taken for bribery, although if I think hard, maybe that's why they treat me so well...

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Westsider your post really made me laugh out loud! Thanx! I needed that tonight You have a great sense of humor! I especially like the part, "... although if I think hard, maybe that's why they treat me so well." I never thought of that before!

***quote format fixed***

[This message was edited by Colleen on 22 January 2004 at 08:57 PM.]

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Originally posted by Ling in Italy:
Now, my nxt visit to the Esso or Agip is going to involve a lot of thought! "to tip or not to tip?"... why am i feeling so guilty at the thought of NOT tipping???

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Because you are used to tip. I feel the opposite when I am in foreign countries where tipping is required: I have to keep reminding myself "here I have to tip", since tipping sounds a bit squalid to me. But, when in italy, remeber that here things go differently: if you don't tip you can't go wrong. I can tell you exactly when it was the last time I tipped: it was my last meal in Edinburgh this summer. Since than no tipping from me, and from Luca either.

Alice Twain
--
I don’t want to take what you can’t give / I would rather starve than eat your bread
I would rather run but I can’t walk / Guess I’ll lie alone just like before
                Pearl Jam, Corduroy

I really don't understand how someone could confuse a tip and bribery. Bribery is something you pay beforehand to get some done. A tip is something you give afterwards. How can these 2 be confused?

Steph

Webfabbrica di Roma
Web Design & Search Engine Optimization

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Originally posted by WebFabbrica:
I really don't understand how someone could confuse a tip and bribery. Bribery is something you pay beforehand to get some done. A tip is something you give afterwards.

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A bribery is something you pay for having something done. Remeber: here in italy tipping is not usual, so if the two concenpts sound quite different for you, they don't to an italian. Actually, may peple call small bribery "tipping". I Italian it is no unusual to hear phrases just like: "GLi ho dato uan mancia perché mi facesse quel lavoro" (I gave him a tip so that I had that work done). This "mancia" _is_ a bribery. Lines are not so clrearly drawn, there is a large grey area where legitimate (but unusal) tipping and bribery are mixed. A good deal of both wht little tipping is done in italy and of bribery actually belong to this gray area.

Alice Twain
--
I don’t want to take what you can’t give / I would rather starve than eat your bread
I would rather run but I can’t walk / Guess I’ll lie alone just like before
                Pearl Jam, Corduroy

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I really don't understand how someone could confuse a tip and bribery. Bribery is something you pay beforehand to get some done. A tip is something you give afterwards. How can these 2 be confused?

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Steph, I totally agree with you. That was the point I was trying to make.

And Alice,

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A bribery is something you pay for having something done. Remeber: here in italy tipping is not usual, so if the two concenpts sound quite different for you, they don't to an italian.

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Of course they do!!!
And as you say a bribery is something you pay beforehand!

I really want to respect your opinion and more than anything your experience, if you say that you witnessed something like that, but come on now! It looks to me like a Godfather stereotype!

A mancia in a restaurant or in a gas station cannot in any way be misunderstood! And a mancia could be offensive, if it was meant to make you do something you don't want to do and actually we call that a mazzetta! And as the term itself says, you need a bunch of banknotes not a coin or two!

I totally disagree that

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"mancia" _is_ a bribery

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and more than anything I disagree that

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Lines are not so clrearly drawn, there is a large grey area where legitimate (but unusal) tipping and bribery are mixed. A good deal of both wht little tipping is done in italy and of bribery actually belong to this gray area.

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I can give you that sometimes people can offer an incentive, and somebody can prefer to do something for the people who do and that might be on the edge, by do you really reckon that we have so little pragmatic skills and good sense that we are not capable of discerning between bribery and a tip!?

Sorry, I cannot really believe it, as hard as I try. Probably my experience has been different, probably I have just never considered the question, just ruling out the possibility that that could be the case.
I honestly feel that that is a sterotype.
Sorry...

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