New to the board, have been "lurking" for a month. I've found a villa big enough for all the family and friends near Montevarchi. There's 14 adults and 9 kids (ll-18). I'm being advised to hire large van/drivers to take trips to Rome, Florence, Venice, Lucca but some of the family think taking trains would be cheaper and easier. I'm wondering how many cars we should rent or if we should do the hired van/driver.

How to plan grocery shopping for that many people, maybe find a cook? Also my father has traced some history of his family back to the Lucca area any suggestions on finding out more?

Hi,Vicki, welcome to ST.

A few thoughts. First of all, it is a very large group---getting 23 people to agree on anything is going to be a big challenge. The first thing to do is research, research. The villa that you have found might be good for you, or you might find that two residences next to each other might be even better (two kitchens, maybe more baths, etc.).

As far as drivers vs. trains -- there is very little chance that every one is going to want to be doing the same thing every day.

Venice is not a day trip.

Rome is not a day trip.

Florence is a day trip, and Siena is a day trip. Those are the kind of distances you need to be thinking in if you plan to spend the entire time at this villa.

Some people might want to go to Florence, some might want to hang out, some might want to go into Arezzo or Castellina in Chianti to wander. This is the reality of dealing with the numbers you are talking about.

Does the villa have a pool to help take care of some of the kids (and tired adults)? In July, you are going to need one.

No van is going to be big enough for 23, and renting a bus might not be an option or even a good idea. I would suggest several cars, with several designated drivers, so that everyone will have a bit of freedom to do what they want. I don't know that Montevarchi is on a train line, but herding that quantity of people into buses or trains does not sound like an easy task.

To make everything more doable, more fun, and more flexible for everyone, I would suggest considering the following:

Several cars with several drivers
2 or three different accommodations (maybe a group of apartments in the same villa or complex)
A pool

Your father would want to start at the Municipio (city hall) of the exact town where his documents are from. That is where you will most likely find the information about his ancestors.

quote:

Also my father has traced some history of his family back to the Lucca area any suggestions on finding out more?

Genealogical research in Italy is not an easy thing. The civil records go back to about 1860 (pulling that year from memory, so anyone feel free to correct me). The commune records may or may not be easy to gain access to, it seems to depend on the person behind the desk.

Beyond that, you will be looking at church records and the difficulty level jumps up to "just about impossible" from my experience.

You should try on-line research resources to see what you might be able to find prior to your trip. If you are new to this type of research, a great place to start are the LDS Family History Center sites (there will be one almost next door to you if you look them up)....the help is amazing and there is not proselytising associated with the visits.

hello vicki142,
my suggestion is that you let a travel agent or tour agency plan and direct this huge event. i know how stressful it can be at times herding and hosting 8 people. i cannot imagine doing that same thing for 23 (especially if i were a novice.... and maybe you aren't).

my thoughts are: if you are going to enjoy the trip, you need some help planning and directing it.

and before someone gets any misled thoughts, i am not advertising for myself... i only take small groups!

there used to be an excellent article on ST regarding the planning/directing of a large group of relatives on a trip to italy... i don't remember the name of it. maybe someone else does and can direct the OT to it.

I think this is the SlowTrav article referenced above.

Diana's advice is right on target.

I'm "leading" a group of 17 adults and children (extended family and friends) headed for 3 weeks in Tuscany/Umbria in May/June 2009. We initially looked at renting a villa in a different location each week of the vacation, but I soon realized that requires knowing exactly how many people are going. If we booked a place to hold the 17 people, and a family of 5 drops out, that leaves 12 people paying for a place that holds 17. That gets expensive!

Likewise, if between now and then we gain a few folks, there's no place to put them! The villas are generally strict about not allowing more people than the villa is designed to hold. No sleeping on the floor.

So we ended up settling on agriturismos with apartments and rooms, with capacity of 22 or more people. Each family makes their own room or apartment reservations at the place, so we have lots of kitchens but room to all get together in one place if we want to. If some people drop out of the trip, they just cancel their apartment and the rest of us continue as usual. By selecting a place larger than our current group needs, if a few more people want to join us, there will probably be room as long as they book early.

Likewise, each family group will rent their own car, so if some want to spend the day in Spello and others want to see Montefalco or Bevagna, we have enough cars to split the group up. Forcing everybody to do the same thing in the same place every day would be horrible for several reasons.

Finally, and VERY IMPORTANT!, read this article (and it's probably the one elizabetta was thinking about):
http://www.slowtrav.com/europe/es_large_groups.htm

Wow, thanks for the info. I just read the article suggested on large groups. It's too late now, I'm in for the trip. Will share the article with those involved. I do have the villa for 2 weeks so that gives us more time to enjoy. Most guests have said they'd like to spend 1-2 nights in Venice and Rome and do that out of the villa. This way they'd have less luggage and we'd schedule several days between them. I did talk to a travel agent who said a van to drive everyone to Venice & Rome would be cheaper than the trains and more direct. Does this make sense?
Any suggestions for hotels with family size rooms?

Ditto Patrick. If we ever did a family trip like that we would have our own car for sure. The more local you stay the more relaxed the trip. RR

Hi Vicki... welcome to ST.

In my opinion one villa for 23 is a huge number of people in one space.

A couple of years ago we had a group of 14 and everyone wanted to go different direction, have a little privacy and everyones down time varied (some had been to other countries just before... and needed a day or two by the pool). We rented all of Le Selvole in Radda in Chianti http://www.chiantinet.it/leselvole/eng.html.
Le Selvole (or any building broken up like this) is perfect for a group. In this example there are 4 - 2 bedroom apartments and 2 - 1 bedroom apartments so each family unit has their own kitchen, livingroom, bathroom and if you rent the whole place you have your own private pool and grounds. This provided lots of group time as well as private time. Also, the overall cost is less (as for a discount because of your group size) As others have said... You have to have a pool.

I was the organizer (I would never use a travel agent but only because it is so much fun for me to plan the trips) some people took a larger role and others had me help them.

As to cars... people will want to go in different directions each day. Some of our group wanted to go into florence, so we put them on the bus AND others went to Rome for a couple of days so we drove them to the train.

After we found 4 in our group who were willing to drive and 4 who were good navigators, we rented cars. Cars allow far more flexibility and I think are quite a bit cheaper than drivers and vans. You could easily do a mixture cars, trains, buses and have the name of a driver/van. First find your drivers and navigators and then you can determine how many cars to rent...or because of your group size maybe a van or two.

We had great plans to cook but it didn't turn out that way. Breakfast on our own, lunches out and gathered in the evening over antipasta plates and talked about the days adventures.

My husband wrote great emails about this group trip and if you like I'll send them to you so you can get a feel traveling with a large group.

Have a great time planning

JFraz,
I would love to read about your group trip, any advise is welcomed. How do I access them?

The villa is already locked in, it does have a lg. pool, several living rooms, 12 bedrooms, lg. kitchen, the pictures looked great. We're all family with 3 close friends included. Some have said they just want to stay at the pool and drink and look at the view. It's also being air-conditioned this year, but can't belive it's any worse there than here in the south.

I'll send them to you in a private message.

If your family decided to take a break from wine drinking.... Montevarchi area has some very high end factory outlets

Diana & others have given you great advice (no Rome, no Venice, yes Florence, yes Lucca, yes Siena) plus (this is what is GREAT about Slow Trav!). You will definitely need 3-4 cars to accommodate and please everyone.

Keep in mind, while you are in Tuscany, technically even Chianti, the core of Chianti is quite a drive from Montevarchi (long winding roads to get there, or cut up north and then down south on the Chiantigiana). so yes, easy to visit for the day, but not for a bite to eat at the spur of the moment.

Other good and easy day trips include Cortona & Arezzo, and even down into Umbria to Perugia & Assisi.

Try the following online companies for Italian geneaology:

http://italiangenealogy.tardio.com/
http://www.daddezio.com/
http://www.italiangen.org/

Best of luck with the organization and planning...and have fun!