We have returned about 5 days ago from a fabulous 10 day visit in Umbria. I am working on my trip report and have submitted six restaurant reviews (5 great, one bad) and a review for the fabulous hotel we stayed (Palazzo Brunamonti in Bevagna).
Aside from that, I had one major disappointment of the trip (which I will relate below) and one fabulous highlight (our cooking class at Malvarine) which I will relate in a separate message.
One of the very few disappointments of this trip was the winery "tour" (and I use the term very loosely) and tasting that we experienced at Paolo Bea.
I had set up an appointment directly with Giampiero Bea via e-mail about a week before we arrived (after having been in touch with him several times over the course of months before we left for our trip). He was very pleased to give me a confirmed appt. for Friday Sept. 28 at 10:30 AM. I tried several times to e-mail him after that before we left but he did not answer. I was not worried about this, as I had written to him before and it took a while to receive a response. Little did I know........
I had only the wonderful reviews here and message board discussions of the winery here to go by when I made the reservation and so naturally I was very excited and hoping for a great time.
When we arrived, several minutes before 10:30 (this is our habit), we were greeted by Sergio who seemed not to know what we were doing there. Well, when I told him who we were and why we were there, there seemed to be a spark of recognition but not entirely. He told us their computer had crashed and they had lost all sorts of reservations, etc.
When it became clear to him that we were here for a tour, he said "Oh, I can give you the tour". Apparently Giampiero was nowhere around and I guess he felt bad. I told him, more than once, that we would be happy to re-book some other time but he would not really let us go. I did not want to be very insistent or downright impolite by insisting that we wanted a tour only with Giampiero as we had reserved. I was afraid to hurt his feelings. Sergio was extremely nice, polite and so willing to help.
However...... a) his English was almost non-existent. He should NOT be doing any tours in English. My Italian is not good enough to help him translate words that are not everyday words; things that are talked about in a winery are not usually everyday words.
b) even though I told him at the beginning that I wanted to go to actually see the vineyards, etc. we never got that (he probably did not understand what I requested)
c) we never got anything special to eat with the tasting of the wine, as I had read about on this forum (we were given two slices of thin dry bread, one plain and one with a liver spread, a small piece of crostini pie and several pieces of parmeggiano cheese)
d) the "tour" barely lasted about an hour with another 30 minutes for the tasting, etc.
e) our "tour" price was slightly reduced because we bought the 4 wine bottles. I think it should have been completely eliminated given the kind of tour we had
The wine was too good NOT to buy so I did end up buying 4 bottles even though I was less than enamored with the winery itself. They were extremely expensive but I decided to splurge. I am not unhappy that I did.
BUT.......
I am very unhappy with the situation. Even more than that, I wrote a personal private and urgent letter to Giampiero while I was still in Bevagna, relating this entire incident and requested a reply from him. I re-sent this letter when I returned home and still had no reply. AND I even sent it a third and final time with a request for a reply and have nothing.
I cannot believe they are still computer-less after almost 2 weeks. So I can only assume that they are not interested in anything one has to say if it is a complaint, even though I complained with "gilded edges".
So this message is a "warning" to all those who may be thinking of taking a tour at this winery. Just be aware of the possibilities of disappointment (and I hope no one else will be).
Living in Italy we're always on the lookout for wineries to visit with friends. Over the years we've visited quite a few wineries for tours and tasting, but have NEVER paid a cent.
When I first started reading about Paolo Bea I was confused...I couldn't figure out why people were paying (and paying a LOT, IMO) to tour a winery. I guessed that there must be something special about this tour....maybe the tasting really amounted to a small meal and was more elaborate that I was used to.
Because our friend Giacomo had been giving tours to lots of people staying near Montefalco, I asked him if he knew of this winery and told him that everyone on ST seemed to think it was a great place.
When Giacomo called to ask about the possibility of a group tour, he asked about the cost, and like us, was quite surprised. When he asked for a reduced price (remember, he's a guide who'd be bringing tourists there on a regular basis), whoever he spoke to laughed and said "Oh no, We don't give reduced prices...we're famous! Don't you read ST?"
You have to know Giacomo to know that he's the nicest, sweetest, most patient person in the world, so I have no doubt that he asked for a reduction with the utmost respect and sincerity, and to have some arrogant person laugh in his face was all it took for me to decide NEVER to patronize or recommend this winery to anyone.
There are so many wineries both large and small in this area, who are certainly willing and able to offer tours and tastings for less than Paolo Bea. I'm sure local inn-keepers can recommend their favorites, or a drive around the area will probably lead to an undiscovered gem!
Your experience with the winery was certainly disappointing, however, there are several factors that could have contributed. One thing I have learned about businesses in the countryside is that because the utilities can be so unreliable, there is little control over such things as computers and connections. It is getting better, but in some places the going is slow.
Also, if you arrived at the harvest time, the winery and its staff were most likely very involved in bringing in the crop. Just some possible impediments to your experience. ciao, Cheryl
Barb - how long ago did this occur with your friend Giacomo and his call to Paolo Bea? This would have been GOOD information to have for people on this board. Or were you waiting for someone to write something negative about Paolo Bea?
I have also never paid for a wine tour and tasting before. But with so many accolades and descriptions on this board, I figured people knew what they were talking about.
I am happy to read though that they apparently read the ST boards. Maybe they will also read my review and learn a bit of humility and decency!!
Cheryl - I agree with your take on the computer and connections in Italy. However, I had a CONFIRMED appt. with Giampiero and we DID get all that done and worked out before I left. As for harvest time, if they know they will be busy and not have time for guests and paying tours, they should not accept them!!
Paolo Bea wines have cult status, at least in the U.S., and command cult prices. The winery tour is probably also priced for what the market will bear.
One previous poster did mention in 2006 that the winery was expanding and that the experience might not be the same in a year or two.
My guess is that Giampiero Bea is unlikely to still be reading ST.
Originally posted by Dorit: One of the very few disappointments of this trip was the winery "tour" (and I use the term very loosely) and tasting that we experienced at Paolo Bea....So this message is a "warning" to all those who may be thinking of taking a tour at this winery. Just be aware of the possibilities of disappointment (and I hope no one else will be).
Dorit, Thanks for taking the time to give us details on your disappointing experience at the winery. I know how difficult it is to write something negative about a highly regarded (fill-in-the-blank).
I hope your experience re-sets expectations for others, and gives them the opportunity to try to avoid the same thing.
Colleen
Posts: 14508 | Location: The Beautiful San Francisco Bay Area | Registered: 06 August 2001
Dorit, Giacomo's phone call was in June I think, and since so many people here raved about Paolo Bea, I hesitated to post the story, since it really wasn't a bad 'tourist' experience, nor was it first-hand.
and no, I don't think the people at Paolo Bea are reading ST, they just know that so many of their visitors come from ST.
And since I'm really inexperienced with wineries, is it really common to pay €25+ for a tour and a tasting????
I appreciate your lovely response and reaction to my message, especially coming from someone like yourself. I thought hard before deciding to post it but after reading your reply, I am glad that I did!!
And now that I have learned just today how to post those cute little smiley thingies :
Since the only other tours that I have taken in Italy were with a guide and I only paid him for his services, I personally don't know if it is common practice to charge for a winery tour.
What I DO know is that I ain't gonna do it no more!!
We were originally supposed to pay 35 Euros per person for the tour, by the way, and he lowered it to 20 Euros per person. Still unfair.
I am sorry that you had a dissapointing experience at Paolo Bea Dorit, I can only say my experience was the complete opposite, being the best winery tour I have had anywhere anytime. To answer your question in detail Barb as to what's included for the price read my account here. I believe the price is based on how many people are in your group. For me the 7 tastings of wine and the wonderful treats were well worth the reduced price of 20E per person (because of buying some of their fabulous wine) as that was our dinner for the evening! Plus he spent over 3 hours with us. I do know that many wineries charge you by the glass for tastings (for 2 E a glass that almost brings you to 20E plus food and his time) and some also charge a fee for the tour itself.
It does sound as if there was a miscommunication because there wasn't special foods prepared for you. I think sharing your experience for this particular winery is helpful to message bord readers as it underlines that the tour perhaps should only be taken with Giampiero who makes it a special experience worth the money IMHO. And I agree with Zerlina that he probably is charging what the market will bear for his special wines.
colleenk - your glowing report was actually one of my main catalysts for booking the Bea tour. It was also my basis for comparison to know that I really did not get my money's worth!!
I guess I'm the odd man out who just doesn't get it. Okay, I've toured a winery....rooms with huge vats filled with wine....but for me, once I've seen one of these huge rooms filled with lots of vats, I don't need to see the vats at another winery. Same with the vineyards...row after row after row of grapevines. Beautiful, yes, but honestly I don't need to walk thru them more than once. (Taking pictures is another story!)
At Terra della Custodia and Scacciadiavoli, 2 of our favorite wineries, we've never been charged for tastings, but of course we've never had snacks either, Altho....it would take a lot of snacks to make me pay €20, much less €35....per person! But of course you all know what a tightwad I am!
So sorry to hear of your bad experience at Paolo Bea. I just wanted to chime in and say that we had a great experience with him. Paolo Bea is a small windery and is not really set up to do a lot of tours (such as a winery like Scacciadiavoli which is well equipped and does a great job.) The idea of a tour of a small winery is still relatively new to many Umbrian wineries (definitely not as used to it as the Tuscans) and even 10 years ago the idea of a group of people with a tour of the place was a new idea for them... I doubt Paolo Bea can even afford to have a full time greeter/tour guide on staff. That is one of the neat things about a visit to Paolo Bea--you get a first-hand look from the family that runs the winery. It can be very personal and well worth the visit for some excellent wines--but it sounds like this time they really made a big mistake and with the price they expected they did not deliver. Sorry you were so disappointed. I just don't think Bea is as business-oriented as some other wineries. I don't think he was out to make a lot of money or to take advantage of you. Places like Scacciadiavoli or Arnaldo Caprai are probably better suited to a real professional tour--Paolo Bea might be better suited for someone who wants to taste specific Bea wines and realizes that they are getting into a smaller winery with not as professional an outlook toward tours and visits. Hope you can at least enjoy the wines you purchased....
guess I'm the odd man out who just doesn't get it. Okay, I've toured a winery....rooms with huge vats filled with wine....but for me, once I've seen one of these huge rooms filled with lots of vats, I don't need to see the vats at another winery. Same with the vineyards...row after row after row of grapevines. Beautiful, yes, but honestly I don't need to walk thru them more than once.
I don't tour wineries myself, but I can understand Dorits' disappointment and why someone else might want to tour a winery. I guess one could the same thing about art, paintings, scultures, ruins. After you see one, they all look the same. NOT!! I guess that I can understand Dorit's disapointment because I know how limited one's time in Italy is. One looks forward to seeing something and going there only to get there and find it closed for restoration, They thought you were coming on a different day, etc. The custodian went for a late lunch and won't be back unitl you have to leave the catch the last train, etc.
Posts: 3844 | Location: St Paul, MN | Registered: 10 February 2006
dragonpat - thanks for the kind words. Indeed there were several "special" things that I had planned for this trip. This winery tour was one of them. The cooking class at Malvarina (which was the highlight and I wrote about in another thread below) was another. A fabulous (but trecherous!!) ride into the Piano Grande was yet another special highlight (will be described in my trip report)!!
claire - after spending so much money on these wines, I will have to wait a bit before deciding to open and drink them, i.e. will have to let the steam dissipate a bit out of my ears!! But since they can wait several years yet for drinking, it should be no problem.
Originally posted by Dorit: A fabulous (but trecherous!!) ride into the Piano Grande was yet another special highlight (will be described in my trip report)!!
Oh, I can't wait to read about that!!!
And altho I never said it, I'm really sorry that something you'd looked forward to turned out to be such a disappointment! At least (hopefully!!) when you enjoy the wine it'll be some small compensation. Of course most of us detailed planners have at least one such glitch per vacation, just to remind us that things don't always go according to plans!
i am quite surprised at the number of people who claim they've "never" paid for a tour at a vineyard/winery....
sorry, but almost all vineyards/wineries in tuscany charge something for a tour, with a graduated fee related to whether the group adds a tasting and/or food.
Posts: 958 | Location: smack dab midwest | Registered: 06 September 2004
Indeed they did waive some of the charge when I bought the wine. I mainly was upset because :
a) the tour was nothing even close to what I expected and knew to be the "norm" after reading others describe it; and
b) I have yet to receive any kind of reply to my letter written after the visit.
It is just good business sense, but it seems to have gone over their heads.
With regard to Zerlina's comment that they probably don't read ST boards, etc. I agree. However, if you get onto a search engine such as yahoo or google now, one of the first hits is my message here. This means that OTHER people who may be interested in visiting this winery will get the whole picture. And this is part of what my intentions were.
I don't mean to defend them, since I certainly wasn't there to share the nuances of your visit. However, many Italians don't use e-mail the way we do. It is seen by many as an alternate form of communication, and not that important.
Have you notice how many Italian companies have free web-based email adresses as their company email contact? That should really show you how email isn't taken that seriously by many. Rarely do you find an Italian company with dedicated e-mail, or exchange or IMAP services. It just isn't used as a primary means... BY MOST.
That said, it is always important to contact Italian companies by phone, because you never know how they use e-mail.
Additionally, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, in the US, we are accustomed to an service breakage being handled without delay. That is often not the case in Italy. If your internet connection goes down, it could be weeks before it is fixed. In fact, my net connection a my house in Soriano died 3 days ago while the phone company was 'FIXING' my phone lines. I wonder how long it will be before they fix the DSL connection (and probably break the phones again).
My point is that all of this started a chain of dissapointing events that clearly fed off of one another. While I am not familiar with their tours, I wouldn't be so quick to write them off. Instead, I would suggest that someone that lives near Montefalco visit the winery and let them know about this experience so they can be aware of it. Maybe show thema printout of this thread.
Clearly they have provided an excellent experience for others in the past, and it seems evident that a good deal of their business comes from ST. I would hate to see them suffer because of a series of unfortunate events that happened once. Things just go bad once in a while and Murphy's law tends to go into full force at those times.
I think they may deserve the benefit of the doubt from what I have read in this thread.
Topic Closed
