As a resource to travelers, let's begin a list of Italian place names that have been "translated" in the travel literature and commonly used in English-speaking countries, matched to their proper Italian names.
As a reminder, this thread is for informational purposes. Feel free to post your experiences, but let's remember to make it a respectful, thoughtful exchange of ideas.
My favorite is the town of Livorno that is called Leghorn in English. I never could understand why but then when looking at a map of Italy with my daughter for school, I noticed that Livorno looks like a horn coming out of a leg!
I still remember, on my very first trip to Europe, standing on a train platform in (was it Venice???) and wondering what this "Parigi" was. So very many trains seemed to be headed there, and I just assumed it was some town in Italy that I'd never heard of.
EDITED TO ADD: I just realized that this was supposed to be limited to ITALY place names.
As a generalization, I would throw out that only those places that have become important to the English speaking world have developed English versions of their names. Importance can be either economic or --- as Mantua and Padua ---- because someone writing in English (Shakespeare) used them.
many of the proper Italian place names evolved from their original Latin names, but this doesn't help you at the train station.
The Trastevere stop on the FM-1 train from FCO I believe is listed as Roma Trastevere. I couldn't find it in the automatic ticket machine under Trastevere and had to buy my ticket at the window.
Pompeii in Modern Italy is one i. Pompei.
Herculaneum is Ercolano (actually the town was named Restina until Herculaneum was found, and renaed itself).
Posts: 4355 | Location: St Paul, MN | Registered: 10 February 2006
Originally posted by Matteo C.: Trento hasn't and "english" versione. There's just the german version "Trient".
You can say that, but I have the Let's Go guide that says Trent.
Regions that haven't been mentioned yet:
Sardegna - Sardinia Lombardia - Lombardy Val d'Aosta - Aosta Valley Lazio - Latium (not sure how to pronounce it)
When I first looked at guidebooks to Italy, I saw Basilicata called Lucania in English. That name was used during Fascism, and historic Lucania covers more territory than present-day Basilicata.
Originally posted by Andrew: I have a print and online source saying LAY-she-um.
LAY-shum. I studied classics for about a hundred years and have never heard anything else in English. (LAH-tee-um in Latin.)
Since this project is to collect translations that are actually seen around, rather to compile a correct terminology, it doesn’t matter, but many of these terms are obsolete or inaccurate.
Latium and Apulia are very archaic in English for Lazio and Puglia. Latium and Apulia are ancient names, and the ancient areas do not correspond exactly to the modern regions; the names should really be used only in ancient contexts.
Leghorn today is only a hen. Modern maps indicate Livorno.
English used to refer to "the Marches," but today just about everyone uses "le Marche." Regions that are still commonly translated:
Piedmont, for Piemonte (not 'Piedmonte,' a common mistake) Lombardy, for Lombardia Tuscany, for Toscana Sicily, for Sicilia Sardinia, for Sardegna
Campania is spelled the same in both languages but correctly pronounced Cam-payn-ya in English.
Translated names of provinces (some have been mentioned, but here's a complete list):
Originally posted by Trasteverina: The translated name that really threw me occurred when I wanted to take the train to Munich. It's Monaco in Italian.
Another post has reminded me of the Sabine Hills - Colli Sabini.
There's no 'standard' pronunciation of Latin: it depends on the circles one moves in... So I would tend to say 'Latsium', because I generally encounter Latin when I'm singing it, and the 'Italianate' pronunciation is the most common approach there. But in academic circles, the 'English Public School' pronunciation seems to hold sway: thus 'Layshum'.
Jonathan
Posts: 3395 | Location: Stroud, UK | Registered: 18 November 2001
Originally posted by Cristina: Now that we understand Leghorn/Livorno, can someone explain why in English, Siena is spelled with 2 n's (Sienna)?
It isn't. Burnt sienna is the crayon and the clay from which the color is named. That, however, is from terra di Sienna, so we do have a missing link someone here must be able to explain. In any case, today, the city has two n's only in Internet posts ;.)
Another post has reminded me of the Sabine Hills - Colli Sabini.
There's no 'standard' pronunciation of Latin: it depends on the circles one moves in... So I would tend to say 'Latsium', because I generally encounter Latin when I'm singing it, and the 'Italianate' pronunciation is the most common approach there. But in academic circles, the 'English Public School' pronunciation seems to hold sway: thus 'Layshum'.
Jonathan
I'm an old choir singer myself, but never encountered Latium in any "church Latin" context, but as you say, that is how Italian Latinists pronounce it. Actually, choir singing introduced me to yet another Latin system, the German, with a "ts" sound where church/Italian uses a "ch" sound. The restaurant in Rome called Palatium, which is a pun on palato (palate) and Latium, is pronounced pa-laht-sium.
Monaco for Munich is, indeed, confusing, but the full form of the name is Monaco di Baviera.
Modern italians may not differentiate between two i's for Pompeii but the circumvesuvio does.
An important fact if you are taking the train to the scavi versus the modern town. Usually the conductor will show you which stop to get off and switch trains but if it is full and he is busy you can end up quite a distance from the actual diggings.
As long as we're bringing up Monaco, it might be important, if you are taking the train from Italy, to know that Nizza is Italian for the French city Nice. Since that area only become part of France in the 19th century, and Garibaldi was born in Nice / Nizza, it has some claim to an Italian name!
The translated name that really threw me occurred when I wanted to take the train to Munich. It's Monaco in Italian.
Many years ago a friend of mine was visiting family in Munich. He then went to Milan for a couple of days and wanted to then head to the French Riviera. He went to the train station, saw the train for Monaco - and yup took it. So of course, he ended up back in Munich!!
I haven't been to the Milan train station lately, but I know in Rome they now list it on the boards as Munchen.
Also I once heard that, for some reason, in English they gave the Italian cities French names (Florence, Naples, Venice etc). But of course then used English pronunciation.
Also I once heard that, for some reason, in English they gave the Italian cities French names (Florence, Naples, Venice etc). But of course then used English pronunciation.
The French and English versions are sometimes the same, but not always. For example, in French, Genova is Gênes, not Genoa, and Mantova is Mantoue, not Mantua. Palermo is Palerme, Bologna is Bologne, and Siena is Sienne, none of which is used in English. BTW, in French it's Venise, not Venice.
Posts: 821 | Location: San Francisco Bay Area | Registered: 28 June 2006
