So it appears that some of you US citizens are getting Italian citizenship, or have done so, and I'm thinking I should. I have been married to an Italian since 1989, resident in Italy (with PdS) since 1991.
The last time I looked into this (10 years ago), the US Consulate in Milan told me that, although applying for Italian citizenship is considered an expatriating act which is grounds for the revocation of US citizenship, the US government had never succeeded in its attempts to revoke citizenship on those grounds, and had given up. So, technically they could take it away, in reality they don't.
But, when I filled out the form for my new US passport in October, there was a statement on there in which I had to swear that I did not have any other citizenship. By agreeing to that, if I had Italian citizenship, wouldn't I be guilty of perjury? That makes me a bit nervous.
"certificati penali del Paese di origine e di eventuali altri Paesi di residenza, in originale rilasciati dagli organi competenti debitamente tradotti e legalizzati*"
I don't have a criminal record. From whom do I get a statement saying so?
You can read a bit on it HERE Mainly it says that you can lose it if you intend to give it up when applying for another citizenship. I wouldn't worry about it and would just ignore the passport question as everyone I know does.
As for the penal record. A PITA if you ask me. I believe you need to go through the FBI which means you need to have your fingerprints done and sent to the FBI. In California you can do it through the Secretary of State's office if you happen to live in CA but since I live here I have to go the FBI route. Double check though with your local Prefetto and see what they need (maybe a police report saying you have no record will suffice)
I am (slowly) working on this. I, like you, had no idea where to get a copy of my criminal record. I called the American embassy in Rome and they told me to request my police record from the city where I last lived in the US. I found the police department's web site and sent them an email. They replied with what info I needed to send them, which I did via fax. They are sending me the documents via postal mail.
I plan to zip by the UTG once I have this document to see if it qualifies. I'll post their response on the message board.
As far as losing US citenzenship, I obtained a document from the embassy last July which I posted in this thread. (you see, I am working on this slowly )
And yes, this should all be done through the UTG (new name for the prefetto)
Just a quick message for any women married to Italian males prior to 1983. In this case there is normally an automatic right to Italian citizenship. I think the relevant law is Legge 123.The details seem to be on all the Italian Consulate websites worldwide.
Posts: 6 | Location: Brighton. UK and Abruzzo (Ch) Italy | Registered: 30 December 2003
I'm also in the process of getting all the stuff I need to obtain my dual citizenship, and I found a lot of useful information at http://myitaliancitizenship.com/
The lady at the Italian consulate in San Francisco recommended this site for me and it's a very good site, full of forms, etc...
I have dual .. I have dual (sorry just rubbing it in !)
I got the criminal check directly from the FBI in Washington DC (my mom lives in DC so it was very easy)
The laws change so quickly that you never know what is right or wrong - my xhusband for example has dual German /italian citizenship - which you can't do anymore.
It took me almost 2 years to get citizenship done - 6 months to get all the paperwork together (and seriously translated) and then 18 months of waiting for it to be processed.
Once you get it you have to go in front of the town mayor who declares you an italian citizen - rather embarassing ..... I got italian cit. to make my life easier - no more PdS's ect. but I would never give up my birth nationality for it. Dual is cool - especially for the kiddies
Posts: 275 | Location: Italy | Registered: 16 April 2003
Well there's no point to having dual citizenship in Italy and Germany anymore, that's why.
Once a member of a country in the EU, all rights bestowed on one country are afforded in another, hence the irrelevance of having citizenship of two nations in the EU!
Here's an update though there is not much to tell. I got my police record from Boulder CO, the city where I last lived in the US. I tried calling the UTG (I am a glutton for punishment) to see if they thought this document might be acceptable. Here's how the conversation went:
UTG: Hello.
Me: Good morning.
UTG: Good Morning.
Me: I have a question...(cut off in mid sentence)
UTG: I'm sorry but we can't give information over the phone because of the privacy laws.
Me: Excuse me?
UTG: We can't give information over the phone because of the privacy laws.
Me: But I just have a general question.
UTG: We can't give information over the phone because of the privacy laws.
Me: Who's privacy are you trying to protect?
UTG: We can't give information over the phone because of the privacy laws.
Me: OK. (snicker) Thank you for your time.
I think it was a real person but it might have been a recording.
Since today was one of the 2 days per week that the UTG receives the public I thought I would zip by and show them my document. But I decided to call first (I get such a kick out of talking to them). Here's how the conversation went:
UTG: Hello.
Me: Good morning.
UTG: Good morning.
Me: I'd like to know if I can come by to...(cut off in mid sentence)
UTG: I don't know.
Me: You don't know?
UTG: I don't know if they can see you because today the office is open to the public.
Me: They can't see me because the office is open to the public?
UTG: I'm telling you that I don't know if they can see you because today the office is open to the public.
Me: Should I come by when it isn't open to the public?
UTG: You should come by Tuesday or Friday from 9 to 12 when the office is open to the public.
Me: But today is Friday and its 9:30am.
UTG: I don't know if they can see you.
Me: OK. (snicker) Thank you for your time.
They kill me. I can't wait until Tuesday.
In the meantime, after reading that others got their records from the FBI, I decided to send them an email but have had no response. I will try some other offices.
After looking again at this silly piece of paper the Boulder Police Departent sent me, I am convinced that this will not suffice.
I called up the FBI in DC and they gave me a number in West Virginia to call for background checks. I called and listened to a recording explaining the procedure for requesting a background check. I listened to it 3 times and still couldn't get all the details jotted down.
But since I now know that a background check in FBI lingo is an Identification Record, I was able to find this page on their web site that explains how to request it. I was pleased to read that it is also called a Rap Sheet - that is how I will be referring to it from now on.
I will call the embassy on Monday to see if they can do the fingerprinting.
quote: so do you think Italy has the correct fingerprint form for the FBI???
I am hoping the embassy will have them and do the fingerprinting.
I was just reading the fbi web site and it states that if there is nothing on your Rap Sheet, they will simple send the original fingeprint card back with a stamp that says "No Record". And on their faq they state that they do not apostille.
Kel, is this what you got? A stamped fingerprint card? Or have things changed?
I will look through my docs and let you know - If I remember correctly they fingerprinted me there ( yes they did) but I don't know what they did with the card- I don't think they gave it to me- boh??
Posts: 275 | Location: Italy | Registered: 16 April 2003
Ok docs are in front of me - yes I have my fingerprint card from the FBI ( why did they give them to me????I don't need a copy since I have the orginial- or maybe just in case I get my fingers cut off??) and attached to it I have a doc from the commonwealt of Mass. that they checked my records and Im clean (dated 3/6?1997) - the finger prints are from 2/18/1997)
Posts: 275 | Location: Italy | Registered: 16 April 2003
Ok docs are in front of me - yes I have my fingerprint card from the FBI ( why did they give them to me????I don't need a copy since I have the orginial- or maybe just in case I get my fingers cut off??) and attached to it I have a doc from the commonwealt of Mass. that they checked my records and Im clean (dated 3/6?1997) - the finger prints are from 2/18/1997)
Posts: 275 | Location: Italy | Registered: 16 April 2003
So I'm sitting here in Lecco trying to figure out how to do all this; I won't be going to the US anytime soon. It's possible to download a PDF version of the fingerprint card from http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/fprequest.html, but it's not clear to me if one that I print out myself is acceptable to them. And who do I get to do the fingerprints?
Deirdré, I am wondering the same thing. I searched the US Embassy web site for "fingerprint" and did not find anything. I, too, saw that you can print the card from the FBI site but I think the difficult part will be finding someone to do the prints per FBI standards.
I did not call the consulate yesterday as it was closed for MLK day. I tried this morning but was told to call back after 2pm. I will keep you posted. Maybe you could try the one in Milan.
Here's the latest. When I initially called the consulate to find out where to get a copy of my Rap Sheet, they told me to contact the police department of the city where I last lived. And I got that with no trouble.
But then I decided on my own after reading this board that I really needed something a little more official so I checked with the FBI as posted above.
I just called the consulate again and the man told me they do not do fingerprints and do not have the card. He said I could try to print the pdf from the FBI web site but didn't know if it would be valid. I could then have the fingerprints done by the questura here in Rome.
Then he started asking me why I wanted fingerprints. I explained and he said it probably wasn't necessary to get my Rap Sheet from the FBI. That I just needed to contact the sheriff of the county where I last lived and have them send a report.
So on Friday when the UTG receives the public, I am going to go by and see if the document I have from the city police department will suffice. And if not, try to find out exactly what I need.
More boring details: I was thinking about what the guy at the consulate said about contacting the sheriff for the county where I last lived and the fact the Kel said she had something from the Commonwealth of Mass and decided to check on getting a criminal record without jumping through all the FBI hoops.
I first called the Texas State Police since that is the state where I was born. But they require fingerprints for a criminal record. It sounded just as difficult as the FBI. (I'm pretty sure the guy on the phone was wearing a cowboy hat and mirror sunglasses)
Then I tried the Colorado Bureau of Investigation since that is the state where I last lived. They have a handy form on their web site to be printed out, filled in and mailed off to request a criminal record. I have that all ready to be put in the mail tomorrow. You can also request that it be certified.
They also have a web based form and you can get your record emailed to you for $6. It isn't on letterhead but I did it anyway. Didn't want to go to all the trouble of mailing the other in if they had me down as an axe murderer or something. I'm CLEAN!
So you may want to do a search on the web for the state where you last lived and see if you can get a copy of your criminal record through them.
This has nothing to do with anything BUT when we applied for US citizenship, the INS gave us a list of people authorized to do fingerprints. So we went to the county sherrif (who was wearing a cowboy hat and mirrored sunglasses) and got fingerprinted. Then down to the Albuquerque INS, take a number and wait in a tiny, crowded room for 3 hours, then proudly present our papers and fingerprints. The woman behind the counter says "Oh, Randy knows he shouldn't be fingerprinting!". Turns out they had changed the rules and now you had to be fingerprinted by the INS only. So we waited again and then had possibly the worst fingerprinter in the world - took 3 tries each and over an hour to have them done.
And if that isn't bad enough, it turns out that your fingerprints "expire" after 18 months. My paperwork got held up because it is kept wherever you entered the country and I entered at Vancouver airport (flying to Hawaii) and they were renovating the airport, so all the paperwork was in storage (that is my best guess as to why Steve's paperwork went thru in 1.5 years and mine took 3 years). So after 18 months, I had to go down and be fingerprinted again. Same guy.
Getting my Green Card for the US was easy (because we won that immigration lottery, so it was just a medical test and a short interview) - but becoming a citizen was a major undertaking!!
I just called the FBI (304-625-5590)and listened to the multiple prompts. It sounds like you can request an information packet which will include a blank fingerprint card and instructions on where to send your request/card.
Steps: 1) Call 304-625-5590 2) Select Option #2 (Private Individual requesting) 3) Select Option #2 (again) - Requesting copy of FBI Certificate of Good Conduct 4) Select Option #1 - to request an information packet. This is a recording that tells you to leave your full name, complete mailing address and country and postal code.
Once you get the packet - I'm guessing you could get your fingerprints (using their card) in Italy - and then send them from Italy to the FBI address: Federal Bureau of Investigation, Criminal Justice Information, Service Division S.C.U.M.O.D. – D2 1000 Custer Hollow Road Clarksburg, West Virginia 26306
Good luck!
Posts: 116 | Location: Seattle, WA | Registered: 26 October 2003
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