My teenage son and I will be taking our 1st voyage to Italy in June 2009 to Italy. We are taking a cruise with many stops in Italy.

One of the ports of call is Livornio (Pisa) and we will be staying there 2 days. The ship docks at 7am on a Monday and then leaves Wednesday 7pm.

I want to take this time to visit Milan, one place the ship does not stop on our cruise.
This is one of the highlights of the trip for me. Milan is approx 300 miles away.

Originally I was going to rent a car from EconomyCarRentals.com for two days at a cost of approx $160 and stay overnight at a B & B in Milan. (anyone have any sugestions??) I had not thought of the price of gas, the headache of driving in a foreign country, parking, tolls etc

OR

Should I take the train? Again, in a foreign country where I do not speak the language and I have a finite amount of time (remember I HAVE to make the ship at a certain time or this stop over will really cost me) a car might give me more freedom??

I do not know anyone in Italy at this time or know anyone that has gone that can guide me - that is why I am asking this board , hoping that someone who has gone to Italy , might have some words of advice for me.

I appreciate your time reading my post and you jotting down your ideas. - And YES - I do have to go to Milan.... it is more important that seing the leaning tower or Florence to me....... Thanks everyone!!

Where are you going to park?

Unless the point of going to Milan is to fill the trunk with shopping I'd take the train.

OTOH I wouldn't worry about driving. If you're used to big city driving it won't seem very different to home.

Oh renting can be a hassle to. Not all rental counters are 24/7.

I respectfully disagree with Nick about driving in Milan. It is not like driving in any other big city -- it is infinitely more confusing and frustrating. Not to be compared with driving in Philly. I know both cities well.

I would take the train. Just leave yourself enough time on Wednesday by taking the earliest train possible to get back to Pizza. Make Tuesday your focus.

The weather at the end of June can and will probably be as hot or hotter then Philly in July - and smoggier. It will be cooler toward the beginning of the month.

What is it you want to do exactly in Milano?

Oh I sort of assumed they would drive to the city. Park. Then drive out of the city. Not so much try to drive around the city centre during the day.

I'm a big fan of the train for this type of trip (but correct me, if I'm wrong), I think it will require at least one change of trains.

But I have to ask, why go all the way to Milan? There's so much to see closer to port that won't be as tasking (e.g., Florence).

Trains are easy in Italy once you know how they work. There is some excellent information here on the main site.

It will be a long tiring couple of days no matter how you do it, but I think the train would be more relaxing than driving there.

Be train or car, remember that there are mountains between Livorno and Milano. Trains are either slow (via Parma/Fornovo) or need long detours (via Genova or via Firenze). Driving is a little faster, but not as fast as you would think (in spite of the complete route being on autostradas). Fog and snow could be additional concerns in winter, but not in June.

So, when you are coming back, be sure to leave early from Milan. Train itineraries are complex enough that a missed connection could mean being delayed a couple of extra hours on an itinerary already four or five hours long. Even driving could take about four hours (plus the time to leave back the auto, finding a way to get to the port, etc.)

If worried about train/tickets here are two options

1) Buy ticket in advance from www.trenitalia.com which has an english option. I hear many reports of struggles with payment, though we've been ok with it

2) In most large town / city train stations there are fastticket machines which have an english language option and are easy to use. Best to avoid rush hour though to avoid feeling pressured to rush.

Notes on using trains
- In almost all instances, you have to validate your ticket in the yellow stamping machines around the ticket office/entrance to platforms. Failure to do this will incur a fine, but if you forget, go find the guard on the train and they'll validate it for you (with a grumble!)

- Departures timetable is in yellow, arrivals in white and are displayed near ticket offices and also on most platforms. They'll say when the trains run (but you can get this before you leave from the trenitalia site), but also give the USUAL platform for the train to come in on - look for the column "Bin." for Binario (Platform). They'll also indicate if it's typically subject to delays and if so, how long.

- If you want to see if a seat is free, say "é libera" (is it free) when pointing to the seat

- 1st class is marked with a 1 and 2nd with a 2 on the outside of the train. For all IC/IC+/ES* plus some regular services, the train layout is shown on handy diagrams (often in the ticket office, but also on some platforms

I hope this helps, and don't forget to validate your ticket!

regards

Ian

I don't have any specific advise about your route, but one thing you give up with the train is control.

Speaking from experience. Three years ago we were in Sicily and took the overnight train to Rome - meant to arrive around 7 am - to catch our flight home - at around 12:30.

We woke up at around 6 am, the train wasn't moving, and it was pitch dark. We sat there for a very long time. The train finally moved out of the tunnel we were sitting in , and we sat for another long stretch on a sidetrack near a zucchini patch. We didn't know if we were near Rome or not - there are tunnels on the line pretty close to Rome.

We finally pulled in to a station at around 9 - And we heard the Italians around us exclaiming in dismay "Salerno! Mamma Mia!" They got on their cell phones to call whoever was waiting for them in Rome. The only information we could get was that there was possibly a derailment ahead.

We got to the Rome train station at about 11:00, ran like maniacs to the airport train. (We didn't have cell phone to call the airline.) We got to the airline ticket desk. Of course it was too late to get through security etc. to catch our flight - but even more frustrating, the people at the desk were packing up and leaving. Told us to call the airline and work out booking new tickets.

After two frustrating hours on the telephone, while our three children were draped over a pile of luggage whimpering, we were able to rebook for $7000 additional two days later.

We've gotten over it - after many letters, we did get about $5000 back from the airline. But now we always leave a day or two cushion in the airport city before the flight home, and carry a cell phone. If we had rented a car instead, we might have had more control. On the train, in a tunnel, there's not much you can do.

Carol

With so little time, unless I absolutely had to be in Milan, I would train to a different location. Florence would be easier and faster giving you more time for gelato. What is drawing you to Milan?

To really answer your question I would need to know the travel time difference between the two options. You can go to the Trenitalia site listed above and find out how long the train will take. You can then go to viamichelin and get the driving time from Livorno to Milan.

If it was close to the same I'd take the train.

jb

The OP was quite clear that Milan was a must see for him/her, and it can be done relatively easily by train. Although you could probably drive as quickly (the train is about four hours), by the time you add on paperwork at pickup and drop off, plus time to find parking, allowance for getting lost at least once, etc., I think the train is a better option in this case.

You don't need to buy tickets in advance and probably shouldn't, since you can't guarantee what time you'll be at the station. Odds are if everything goes right you could make the 9 AM train out of Pisa Centrale that arrives in Milan around 1 PM (there is one change in Genova).

Check out the Italian State train site where you can look at the options.

I appreciate all the words of wisdom. Many of you have asked me "Why go to Milan when you can see so much in Florence or Pisa?"

In a nutshell, this Philly girl is a big AC Milan fan. Infact it is half time of the game while I type this post. A trip to Italy would NOT be complete without a vist to the San Siro. Shopping at the stadium store and taking a stadium tour is really a dream. My only other port that is close where I have extra time is Venice - and well - Venice, I rather miss Pisa than Venice.

Keep the idea coming.... any AC milan fans.. I welcome your ideas too!!

Thanks again.

Well, Milan is much closer to Venice than to Livorno. A day trip by train Venice - Milan - Venice is well possible.

but Venice is much more interesting and have more to see and do than in Pisa, that is why I have planned it from Pisa.

Well, to be honest I was totally unsympathetic to your post before you explained your reasoning for having to visit Milano. Who can argue with that logic? I am now YOUR fan. That said; I would advise you to take the train. It should be fairly straightforward - I'm guessing one change in Genova. The car will not be much help to you in Milano and you will run the risk of ZTL and/or speed violations. One final thought: since your Milano "mission" is so specific why not watch for a great last-minute fare sale from NYC or Philly to Milano and simply make a short pilgrimage in the future? Do not sell Pisa and its environs short. It would be nice to have some down time and get to see a bit more than out of a train window or boat deck.

Arts, I am a big Milan fan but am taking a 12 day cruise of the Italy that starts from Rome and then returns to Rome. So, that being said, I am trying to get almost it all done - many ports. There is no cruie I like that stops in Milan - I would have to give up other ports we really want to see.
Being a fan, one can not go to Italy without going to The San Siro when in the country, my feeling.

For anyone - going on train..wouldnt I be giving up time freedom? Remember - if I am late the ship sails without us? WHo has rented a car?? would like to hear about your driving experiences too

No, you will not be giving up any time by taking the train vs. driving.

I have driven as far north as Venice and as far south as Calabria, and I have taken trains over much of the same area over the past seven years. When visiting smaller cities and towns, or those not well serviced by the train network, a car is critical. That is not so in your case.

Actual travel time, by car, would be about a half hour less than the train. However, you must add time onto each method. For the car, add time for getting to the pick up point and back from the drop off point. Add time for paperwork (which can be considerable, this is Italy). Add time for mistakes, wrong turns, etc. – it happens even when you’ve been driving in Italy for years. (Heck, it happens here at home when I’m going somewhere I’ve never been.) Add time to find a parking space. Add time to pay for the parking when you leave. Add time for traffic jams, construction, figuring out how to get gas before you return the car, etc.

For the train, add time to get to the station and back from the station. Time to purchase your ticket and enough pad so you don’t feel pressured. Time to get from the station in Milan to your destination and back again.

In the end, you won’t save time by driving. You would have more flexibility, but that doesn’t sound like a priority for you at this point. You’ve got a known destination and not a lot of time for wandering about, which is what a car is good for.

Just make sure that 1. there is a fan store at San Siro that will be open, and 2. that San Siro itself will be open/accessable. Regardless of what it says about opening times on the website, make sure you book a tour in advance and get it confirmed in an email. These type of things don't function like in the States--you might end up having to buy fan items at the on-line store regardless.

There should be a "Milan point" store in piazza San Fedele, near teatro alla Scala. Not sure about this how large and how stocked this store is as it is a relatively new location and I had no occasion to have a look at it.

My only concern with getting back to the ship via the train is a strike. Honestly, if you go by train, keep an eye on the planned strikes and have a plan B in place.

I'm with Ellen on this too, while the car gives you some freedom, the hassles involved (e.g., it once took us 90 minutes to just do the paperwork for a rental), outweigh the freedom. Like Ellen too, we rent cars for areas that aren't serviced conveniently by mass trans (e.g., parts of Puglia and southern Tuscany) but when traveling between cities, we much prefer to use the trains.

I would take the train. Yes, there is a possibility of a delay, but there is a possibility of a major traffic jam as well.

The limited advantages in time and flexability would, for me, be outweighed by the complications , stress and cost of the car.

I drive relatively regularly in Italy, but all else being equal, given a choice I will always use the train.

TimW

p.s I will be watching AC Milan in two weeks time - but won't be supporting them

In december '08 the high speed line between Milan and Bologna (60 minutes)will'be in service.
I think that Trenitalia timetables will be very different in 2009 (and more in 2010 when they'll finish all the Rome to Milan hs line).

ps
This is the first and last time I help a Milan fan... http://www.sansirotour.com/english/index.html

quote:

Originally posted by kach64:
My teenage son and I will be taking our 1st voyage to Italy in June 2009 to Italy. We are taking a cruise with many stops in Italy.

One of the ports of call is Livornio (Pisa) and we will be staying there 2 days. The ship docks at 7am on a Monday and then leaves Wednesday 7pm.

I want to take this time to visit Milan,..

Pardon my contrarian outlook but with so much to see within 100km of Livorno, is a trip to Milan by any means other than a direct flight a good use of your time? I use a GPS when I have to visit Milan as I find it a big sprawl - thankfully not often. The train may be more convenient (change at s.m.n. in Firenze?) but either way a lot of hours will be spent travelling in metal boxes.

The traffic around Milan can get very bad and there is always an element of doubt on Italian roadways about being stuck in endless back-ups. It's not as if being delayed is a certainty, but if I had a boat leaving without me if I did get stuck, I'd be obsessing about being in a car.

I believe the stadium is a decent distance out of Milan? How will you handle transit? What else do you want to do in Milan? You have a lot to choose from that is in a fairly concentrated ares in the city center for a short duration stay, so enjoy picking out things to do.

Just a note on stadium visits...one of my great trip memories is running around the track in Helsinki's Olympic stadium pretending I was running stride for stride with Paavo Nurmi as he brought the Olympic torch to light the flame for the 1952 Olynmpics.

Hope you and your son have a great time in Milan and on your cruise.

http://www.sansirotour.com/

The stadio (aka Stadio Meazza) is in a periferic zone but within the city borders. The closer metro stop is Lotto on MM1 (a fairly long walk, but there should be some form of bus transportation).

quote:

there should be some form of bus transportation

Sure:

quote:

• Subway: MM1 line (red) LOTTO stop, then continue on foot along Caprilli avenue up to the stadium. During football games there is a shuttle service from the stops of the MM1 line of LOTTO and LAMPUGNANO (interchange parking).
• Bus: linea line 49 from Piazza Tirana (station FS San Cristoforo) to the Lotto square, Piazza Axum stop;
• Autobus: line 78 from Via Govone to Via Lorenteggio, Via Tesio stop.
• Tram: line 16 from Piazza Fontana (Duomo) to San Siro, stop at the Via Dessiè terminal.

Usually, on the days of the Milan games, a shuttle service is prepared from Piazzale Lotto (MM1 stop – red) starting from two hours before the kick-off.

Have you already bought plane tickets? If not, what about flying open-jaw into Rome and out of Milan or vice-versa so that you can tack Milan onto the beginning or end of the cruise rather than squishing it in like this? That would take the time pressure off.

Incidentally, I found this statement puzzling:

quote:

There is no cruie I like that stops in Milan - I would have to give up other ports we really want to see.

Are there any cruises that stop in Milan? That would be strange, seeing that it's about 80 miles from the coast. Or do they stop in Genoa and make Milan a day trip?

quote:

Originally posted by kach64:
but Venice is much more interesting and have more to see and do than in Pisa, that is why I have planned it from Pisa.

quote:

There is no cruie I like that stops in Milan