So I'm reading Donna Leon's book "Death at La Fenice", prior to my trip next month. Looking at the title, I'm thinking "I bet it's not pronounced FENN-iss".

Then I realize I have no idea how they pronounce Venice in Venice.

quote:

Originally posted by Bryan Gros:
So I'm reading Donna Leon's book "Death at La Fenice", prior to my trip next month. Looking at the title, I'm thinking "I bet it's not pronounced FENN-iss".

Then I realize I have no idea how they pronounce Venice in Venice.

I'm not very good at this, but here it goes:

Fenice: Fe-ni-che
stress on the second syllable.

Venice - Venezia: Ve-ne-tsyah
stress on the second syllable.

Check THIS website for pronunciation. Just type the word.

Sorry - don't know anything about the book, but in italy Venice is Venezia (pronounced Veh-neh-tzia). The title of the book is pronounced Feh-neechay, but it is not Venice.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt D.:
Sorry - don't know anything about the book, but in italy Venice is Venezia (pronounced Veh-neh-tzia). The title of the book is pronounced Feh-nee-chay, but it is not Venice.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt D.:
The title of the book is pronounced Feh-neechay, but it is not Venice.

No, but il Gran Teatro La Fe-ni-ce is, and always has been (as Donna Leon will confirm) a Venezia!

quote:

Originally posted by venexiananan:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt D.:
The title of the book is pronounced Feh-neechay, but it is not Venice.

No, but il Gran Teatro La Fe-ni-ce is, and always has been (as Donna Leon will confirm) a Venezia!

I think the original poster was thinking that Fenice is the Italian spelling for Venice.

quote:

I bet it's not pronounced FENN-iss".

Then I realize I have no idea how they pronounce Venice in Venice.

Venice is an English word. It is not a word that Italians even use. Italians don't use the word Florence either. it is Firenze.

Italian like Latin is pronounced exactly how it is spelled according to their pronunciation rules. The accent in Italian is almost always on the second to last syllable.

English is highly irregular in it's pronunciation. English has silent vowels and dipthongs unlike Italian thart confuse everything. Italian has the silent g when it is followed by an l like in Famiglia, but mostly everything is pronounced.

Putting the accent on the first syllable of a word like FENN-iss is an English thing.

There is no short i sound in Italian either like English has. All the i-s are pronounced like ee. my daughter tells me that Spanish is the same.

quote:

The accent in Italian is almost always on the second to last syllable.

"Almost always" is stretching it. I found a site saying that parole sdrucciole (words stressed on the third-to-last syllable) are 21.63%, and words stressed on the last syllable (which are written with an accent) are 9.52%.

OK, thanks. I feel silly now. Of course I knew Venice was really Venezia. (and I'll never understand why we try to translate foreign names. What is wrong with Roma in English???)

I guess right on Fenice as well. Hopefully the Pimsleur CDs I have been listening to will have sunk in a bit...

Bryan I think that this is something that all languages do
Nuova York= New York
Pechino = Begjing
Londra= London
Parigi= Paris

quote:

"Almost always" is stretching it. I found a site saying that parole sdrucciole (words stressed on the third-to-last syllable) are 21.63%, and words stressed on the last syllable (which are written with an accent) are 9.52%.

You are probably right. But unlike in English, in Italian it is hardly ever the first sylable unless the word has only 2 sylables. Many English words have the first syllable stressed. When being uncertain in the absence of a dictionary in English, the first sylable it is safe first try to for the stress.

This reminds of a discussion I had with my husband in France. I asked it the the r-s on the end of French words were ever pronounced? He launched into a 15 minute description of when the r-s ARE pronounced. The gist of what I got out of it was that in French the r-s are hardly ever pronouced, but whether they are or are not is irregular.

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Nuova York= New York

Oh, is that common usage in Italy? I think my Italian language lessons used the English "New York" in all those dialogs where people say where they are from.

- Roz

quote:

Originally posted by Roz:

quote:

Nuova York= New York

Oh, is that common usage in Italy? I think my Italian language lessons used the English "New York" in all those dialogs where people say where they are from.

- Roz

No, Roz, it's not commonly used anymore.
It was used until the '60s as a late heritage of the Fascist habit to italianize all foreign names.
Anyway ,I still remember that, when I was a child, there was the RAI TV correspondant from the US, Ruggero Orlando, who routinely started his chronicles with the phrase "Qui Nuova York, vi parla Ruggero Orlando".
It became a sort of trademark for him.

Am I right in thinking that La Fenice means "the phoenix" and that it's so called because it (the opera house in Venezia, called La Fenice) keeps burning down and having to rise again from the ashes?

La Fenice does mean "the phoenix" but according to this Web page (in Italian), it was called La Fenice even before it burned down the first time.

quote:

Originally posted by stef_m:
"Qui Nuova York, vi parla Ruggero Orlando".

Oh, wait! He wouldn't say "Nuova York", he said "Nuova Yovke"! ("Vi pavla Vuggevo Ovlando".) One of the reasons he is so well remebered is also the way Alighiero Noschese himitated him. In this clip it's the second imitation.

Gosh, what a fun posting!
I used to live in Venice, and loved listening to the Venetians speak in their own dialect (which by the way, is now apparently acknowledged as a "language"). They spell Venice as "Venexia" as against the Italian "Venezia".

Anyway, here are a few italian words with the stress on the first of more than three syllables:

toccano
compere
aquila
dominano

and the list goes on.

Now that it's the weekend and I can spend a little more time on it, I'm posting a list of provincial capital names of three syllables that have the first syllable stressed. I am not counting -ia or -io at the end of the name as two syllables:

Napoli, Bergamo, Genova, Padova, Modena, Taranto, Cuneo, Cagliari, Udine, Trapani, Brindisi, Mantova, Pesaro, Sassari, L'Aquila, Teramo, Rimini, Ascoli.

That's a very useful list, Andrew. Thank you.

Andrew's very helpful list reminds me of the Tuscan town of Bucine, where we stayed last year, not far from Arezzo. I was consistently mispronouncing it in my head until we got there and discovered that it is also stressed on the first syllable.

- Roz

quote:

Originally posted by Alice Twain:

quote:

Originally posted by stef_m:
"Qui Nuova York, vi parla Ruggero Orlando".

Oh, wait! He wouldn't say "Nuova York", he said "Nuova Yovke"! ("Vi pavla Vuggevo Ovlando".) One of the reasons he is so well remebered is also the way Alighiero Noschese himitated him. In this clip it's the second imitation.

You're right Alice

In case you are interested in how is Venezia pronounced in the Ventian dialect, here is a video from the reggae band Pitura Fresca: Venessia in afito.