The Italian cell phone company< TIM requires to register sim cards by sending a copy of your passport before arriving by e-mail or wait until you arrive. It has a 72 hour waiting period with either method. Is there a security risk in sending the information?

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This message has been edited. Last edited by: Colleen,

No cell phone provider will register a SIM card without a valid ID. This is an antiterrorism regulation, no passport, no SIM card.

Bill 1000,
Welcome to Slow Travel. I assume that quote came from a service trying to sell you a TIM SIM at a high markup. I bought TIM SIM cards in Italy, twice, and while I did show my passport it only took about twenty minutes before I had a working phone.

A SIM card cost 10 euro with 5 euro of call time.

Henry

I bought a global SIM from Telestial
http://www.telestial.com/view_...uct.php?ID=MSIM-PP02
No sending passport info. no visiting phone stores in italy. It comes to your house, you activate it and put it in your phone. You can check that it works before you leave home. You can use in the any EU country on your way to italy.
Calls to north America from italy are $0.49/min which is about the same as with the TIM SIM.
the TIM SIM is much cheaper if you are going to make phone calls to Italian phone numbers.

With the Telestial SIM, you can buy more minutes with your credit card online or have autorefill with a credit card of record.

Thanks for the advice. I will look at those options.

I bought a TIM card at the Milan train station TIM store in April. They photocopied my passport page, inserted the card in my phone for me, and I was on my way with a working phone. Total time in store 15 minutes.

You can read here about difficulties a person has had adding time to their TIM SIM outside of italy and keeping it alive. I remember some other posts on TA having a similar problems
http://slowtalk.com/groupee/fo...62600685/m/458108732
If you do decide to buy and Italian SIM, it might be better to buy a Vodafone one. Unless things have changed, TIM would not accept payment from a credit card issued on a non-Italian bank for buying minutes online. Vodafone would. So you could maybe keep you number alive for future trips to Italy by buying time online for it occasionally.

I have found two companies (Brightroam.com and rebelfone.com) that sell TIM SIM cards online (this seems to refute the registration/passport requirement discussion). Both appear to be US companies (not sure about Brightroam but they do have a US 800 number). Both are "postpaid" -that is they charge airtime to your credit card after the fact. Does anyone have any experience with either of these? This also seems to bypass any TIM policy about not allowing airtime to be billed to a non-Italian credit card

I purchased one from Telestial last year and had to fax my passport page over and fill out a form. As the above poster said, it is an antiterrorism mechanism and from what I understand they require the registration of everyone.

checked the terms and conditions and went as far as setting up (but not completing) an order on the rebelfone site. They do not require anything other than the credit card and address info. If the card is to be shipped to an address other than the billing address on the card they want a fax of both sides of the credit card. Clearly they are concerned about fraud, not terrorism

Brightroam has been around for a while. I've seen it mentioned on other forums and it is mentioned in this CNET article. I'm not certain about Rebelfone. It looks like a newer company. The rates to the US are low as is the cost of the SIM. The rates with in Italy may be higher. I wonder if there are any additional fees (taxes)?

If you do decide to use one of the companies, I'd love to hear back from you on how it goes.

Here's a comparison of what I know so far:
Rebelfone is out of Boca Raton, Florida.I don't know how long they've been around but found a Forbes article on them from 2004 so they've been in business for at least five years. They partner with O2, Orange, and Vodafone, but their Italy SIM is through TIM. It costs $4.99 plus shipping (they mention Fedex at $9.99). Rates are $.52 on net or $.62 off net in Italy, $.45 to the US, and incoming free.

Brightroam lists no address. They are owned by Roadpost, out of New York. They have been around since 1991.They want $29.99 for the SIM, which is also on the TIM net. They do offer a discount for purchasing airtime preloaded on the SIM. Their rates are $.49 in Italy, $.69 to the US, and again incoming calls are free.

I did a quick check on a couple of other travel forums. One mentioned an activation fee with Rebelfone.

There is no activation fee mentioned anywhere on Rebelfone's site. According to their FAQ they process a $50 authorization on your credit card when you order, but do not actually charge against this until you use your phone. The first bill then comes within the first 30 days. There is no fee for the SIM for the first three months. Cheapest shipping is the $9.99 with Fedex. If the SIM is returned to them (presumably with another Fedex charge) there are no other charges. Maybe they used to charge an activation fee but no longer do so?

My thoughts at this point are to get their SIM and then sign up with Jahjah so my wife's mom can call us at nominal rates of a couple of pennies per minute...and since this would be an incoming call on the Rebelfone/TIM SIM this should be free in terms of Rebelfone charges. So the only charges from Rrebelfone should be the SIM,two way Fedex shipping, plus whatever airtime we use for calls within Italy.

I haven't looked at either of these companies, but do check the fine print to make sure there is not a minimum annual charge. Sometimes these companies require you to spend a certain amount on the card, or they will charge you for it anyway. For example, do you get the remainder of your $50 back if you return the card and don't use all of it?

- Roz

No, you just have to keep the SIM charged. If you do it with a minimum recharge - say, 5 euro - it is still good for the normal period (usually 11 months + 1 extra month to recharge before the SIM expires).

Expired SIMs can be reimbursed or the balance transferred to another SIM of the same provider - actually this was stipulated in law a couple of years ago, but providers are authorized to charge a reasonable amount for this service - for example Vodafone charges 8 euro.

quote:

No, you just have to keep the SIM charged.

Yes, that would be true of a normal TIM card, but the Rebelfone TIM card might be different, since they are issuing the charges against your credit card. As I said, I have no experience with this card, just wanted to caution to read the fine print to make sure there are no surprises.

- Roz

Frankly I'm leaning towards Rebelfone to avoid some of the very issues you mention. There is no prepaid time loaded on the card-all billing is in arrears based on actual usage. If the SIM is returned within three months of first purchase there is no additional charge for it (although you can choose to keep it and pay a monthly fee). I can't actually buy the card now as the three months would be up just when my trip in September will begin, but as I continue to poke through their site and ferret through other information about them on the net I have not found any "gotchas." If I do deal with them I will definitely report back to this forum on my experience.

Thanks for the advice.

Tessmar - I was reading another thread and noticed that one user had used Roam Simple which you originally asked about. I did a search and found several thread discussing it. Roam Simple Discussions. KathleenS reported back on how it works for her.

Thanks, Marta
No excuse for me not using the "Search" facility. I then woke up and used it for Rebelfone. There are no reviews from anyone actually using it (at least not in Slowtalk), and I don't know what Roz was reading to determine that there is a fee for incoming calls as the "Italy" pricing page clearly indicates they are free. Also, the company definitely is in the US and I see no indication of needing to send passport data-only the credit card billing stuff like any web merchant. Maybe they had an error on the site about incoming calls or changed their plan since Roz looked at it? At any rate they are much cheaper for the card than Roam Simple, and like the latter bill after actual usage. I'll check further on the web for any reviews.

quote:

I don't know what Roz was reading to determine that there is a fee for incoming calls

I believe I was looking at the World Rebelfone card, which could be used in many countries. Actually, I don't remember seeing a card just for Italy when I looked at the site earlier. Either they have added new options, or perhaps I landed on the wrong page before and only saw the World card. Or maybe they have changed their pricing.

Their Italy card does still appear to be more expensive than buying a TIM or Vodaphone card in Italy. You would pay $4.99 for the card, plus $9.99 shipping, and that would give you no talk time. You can get a TIM card for as little as 10 euro with 5 euro credit on it.

I also admit that I would be kind of leery of giving someone my credit card number with no limit on what can be charged to it. They also are very cagey about what happens after the first 3 months. Apparently there is a monthly fee after that time, but I couldn't find what it is. I would like to hear from someone who had used the plan and returned the card before the 3 months were up to make sure there weren't any unanticipated expenses or other surprises.

I'd also like to be sure that someone who had bought the Italy card was able to get it working in Italy with no problem. I have seen a lot of stories from people who bought SIM cards (not Rebelfone, from other companies) in the US then found they didn't work when they got to Europe. If you go to a TIM store, they will set it up for you and make sure it is working.

- Roz

All good info, Roz. T.I.M. used to have a store in Montepulciano but it closed while we were there in 2007. It appears (at least from their web site)the nearest one is in Arezzo, which is an hour away. What do you think about Vodafone as an alternative? Although their site is down for maintenance right now I recall seeing that they had an outlet in Chiusi, which is ten minutes away.

Atually T.I.M. does have a place in Foligno and we are planning to see a festival there when we first get in...but that is Sat night and Sunday and I'm sure it will be closed. One in Fiumicino probably won't work either as we get in after 5 on Saturday and (providing we aren't too jetlagged) we are going to try to rush to Foligno to see the nightime Quintana festival.

quote:

What do you think about Vodafone as an alternative?

I haven't used Vodafone myself, but I understand that one thing in its favor is that you can reload time on their website with a US credit card, unlike TIM. And since they are a UK company, it might be easier to get help in English. So I would say yes, that's probably a good option if they have a convenient outlet for you.

Another reason for buying a card based in the EU is that I believe the roaming rates in the EU are going down in July. I don't know whether that would be the case for a card you would buy from a US-based company.

- Roz

On the other hand Vodafone's site in Italy has been unavailable now for over six hours for "maintenance." Are they really a viable alternative for TIM in Italy or a half-hearted competitor?

Sites sometimes are down for maintenance, TIM has done it as Vodafone did. Not a big deal. Yes Vodafone is a viable alternative and no they are not a half hearted competitor.

Now let's talk SIM cards. You do not have to go to a TIM store to buy a sim. There are stores everywhere that sell SIM cards (appliance stores, grocery stores, etc.). You can enter, show your passport (or calculate your codice fiscale) and walk out with a SIM in less than 5 minutes. TIM has better coverage most of the time but for example, in my office and in my home I have no TIM coverage but VODAFONE and WIND work fine (yes I have 3 phones).

Personally though, I think buying from a 3rd party company is a waste of money and as has been shown on the forum, many people who have bought this way ended up with phones that did not work upon arrival.

Thanks Cristina
My only previous knowledge of Vodafone was as a sponser of the Ferrari Formula One Team
With 30 years in the IT business I have come to look at certain "signals" regarding web site management as indicators about a firm. While I do know (all too well) about site maintenance the most competent sites are rarely out for such a long period. Doesn't mean the company is not just fine, of course, but it does show where their emphasis is-and obviously for the Italian affiliate it isn't on 27 by 7 availability of the web site.

There actually is a real grocery store (supermercato) in Montepulciano. I'll ask Maurizio if he knows if they handle TIM cards. It might be a good probability as they used to have an actual store in town.

Getting a card and setup quickly is necessary as my wife's mother is 85 and although in good health we need to alwasys be able to contact her and vice-versa.

Thanks again

quote:

While I do know (all too well) about site maintenance the most competent sites are rarely out for such a long period.

Please note that probably the Vodafone site was offline during the night, Italian time. I see you complained about it at 6am, Italian time; likely most Italian subscribers were not affected.

At the very beginning the company, named Omnitel, was the best provider in Italy - TIM was much inferior in customer assistance. At a time, both Tim and Omnitel were owned by about the same shareholders, later it entered the Vodafone international group. Now TIM and Vodafone are about equivalent - very large consumer bases, among the largest in the world, good service. The Vodafone customer service now looks to be fairly proportional to your invoice; if you spend a lot, you get good assistance, if you spend a few euros every year it has been said that you will need a long time before actually speaking to an human being at the call center.

I did realize that, Luca, but thanks for pointing it out. On the other hand, the Internet is and should be IMHO a 24 hour world with access from anywhere and everywhere across 24 time zones. Not a slam at Vodafone or their Italian affiliate, but the message (in Italian) did say it was down for maintenance and not that they had specific hours of operation which did not include the times I tried to access it. Given that they actually sell things on this site and the first time I tried to get on was before midnight Italian time it just seemed a bit...different. But then, viva la difference!

Not a big deal...sort of like when I did get on and clicked on the English version to look for store locations (I couldn't find this link on the Italian version). The only option was by "city" but when I gave up and clicked on Siena sure enough all the locations in that province came up. There's three stores within a few minutes of Montepulciano,and as Roz pointed out there could well be stores in town that carry T.I.M. cards as well-though I don't know that they will actually check out the card for you as the cellphone stores would. Anyway, seems like I have enough alternatives for this part to proceed.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and help.

Tessmar, I am an old Vodafone subscriber, since the time they were still Omnitel - something like 14 years of daily use. Frankly, I have not very much to complain about them, and I found the website offline only a couple of times in the last two or three years.

I would add a suggestion: most general electronics stores sell cellular phones and SIM cards as well. The shop locator seems to point only to shops directly linked to the provider, but looking carefully you could find more of them.

Grazie per l'aiuta, Luca
I do recall at least one electronic shop in Montepulciano and I will check there first the Monday after we arrive.

quote:

On the other hand Vodafone's site in Italy has been unavailable now for over six hours for "maintenance." Are they really a viable alternative for TIM in Italy or a half-hearted competitor?

Often my bank's web site is unavailable to 24 hours, but they usually alert us when that is coming up.
My 401K web site from work was unavailable for 10 days last time they updated it. I work for a large multinational corporation.

quote:

On the other hand, the Internet is and should be IMHO a 24 hour world with access from anywhere and everywhere across 24 time zones.

this is only an ideal. The real world is often less than ideal. you can search the Forums. people have had both good and bad experiences with TIM. Whether the web site was down for 6 hours on a particular day shouldn't be a factor. Besides at the TIM web site unless something has changed, you can't use your foreign credit card to buy time anyway: So what the point of even going there? with this prepay time stuff you don't go there to check on your bill.

I guess I've been living in the stratospheric world of total availability and hot staged mirror sites all my career. At Visa we had duplicate mainframes in San Mateo and Virginia, each of which was capable of running the entire network at a peak volume of 11,000 transactions per second. And the allowable outage times for web sites I've worked with was measured in minutes per week. What a spoiled little kid I've been

It wasn't T.I.M. I was (apparently) whining about...it was Vodafone. And I was there to try and find out where their stores were. Not a big deal but I was surprised about how long their "maintenance" took. I guess I lived in a world that truly was 24/7 for too many years

quote:

Given that they actually sell things on this site

That may not be a good indicator...

I went to the TIM store in the Rome Termini station last year. After standing in line for about 10 mins, I asked the sales lady for a SIM - she said they didn't have SIMs. Somewhat flummoxed by this, I asked her to repeat, and got the same response.

Not wanting to give up, I went to another line. When finally I got to the salesperson, I asked for a SIM again. He pulled out the SIM and sold it to me. So much for a business wanting to sell their products!

Another time I went to a TIM store and asked them to set my voicemail prompts to English. I had once seen instructions on some web site about how to do this for a TIM SIM, but the steps didn't match my menus. I got a very curt reply that TIM doesn't do English. That was some years ago, and I still don't know if TIM can actually do English voicemail prompts or not.

By the way, on one trip I bought both TIM and Vodafone SIMs and found them to be very similar. Coverage was similar (but not identical) in the big cities and way up in the mountains. Costs were similar. Purchasing and getting help was very prompt and courteous (in the smaller cities - see above for my big city experience).

TIM SIM prompts can be set to English. I was having difficulty doing this for my phone a few years ago, so I went to a bookstore to purchase a dictionary to help with the manual--and the bookstore clerk offered to do it for me.

quote:

I guess I've been living in the stratospheric world of total availability and hot staged mirror sites all my career.

I am guessing that you are closer to my daughter's age (23) than mine (56). I might seem antique in my web attitutes and maybe I am but where I work (not in the IT dept) as a chemist I am regarded as one of the more web savy people in my depts.

Probably in a small town...

Thanks for the compliment, but boy did you miss the mark. I just turned 64
But living and working in the tech capital of the world for 30 plus years does tend to warp your perspective a bit.

Just returned from Italy. I used a prepaid sim card from TIM. Telestial had sent instructions on recharging the phone and changing the prompts to English. TIM changed the number prompts so I went to the hotel desk and they were able to listen to the Italian prompts and recharge my phone. I had to go to a TIM store to change the language to English. The TIM salesperson keyed in my phone number into his computer and changed the language. It worked fine, and I was fortunate to have a TIM store across from the hotel I will be contacting Telestial to inform them of the changes.