Just back from 8 days in Florence and wanted to report experience with Alitalia. My itinerary was BOS-MXP and MXP-FLR. The flight from Boston departed pretty much on time and was uneventful although the seats were SO narrow, and I'm a small woman, that I was practically on top of the man next to me. The tiniest I've ever seen.

At the departure gate for our FLR flight from MXP we were informed that the flight would be delayed a few hours and could possibly be cancelled altogether. No explanation why. We were given vouchers for panini at the snack bar and told to come back about 2 hours later. Fortunately, by chance, about an hour later, I overheard some people talking from my flight, saying that we all had to get on a bus to get to FLR. An announcement had been made over the loudspeaker, guess I didn't hear it, and we all had to get our luggage, and walk maybe 15 minutes, with our luggage, to get to where the busses were. The ride took about 5 hours to Peretola. Ours was not the only Alitalia flight cancelled and switched to a bus ride. There were several busses lined up, taking passengers from other cancelled flights to Genova, etc. From the attitude of the ground crew, this did not seem unusual.

I have been home only a few days and have not contacted Alitalia for reimbursement. Not sure if it's worth the effort.

Just wanted to pass this along.

Good information, and this does happen quite frequently in Italy, and elsewhere.

It's even worse here in the US. Airlines simply cancel flights ... and then you can be left to almost completely fend for yourself, especially if they haven't automatically rebooked you and you have to go to a (lack of) "service center" to get rebooked. No buses as an alternative. This has happened to us a few times recently (last year or two) and we've waited in line to rebook for hours (no exaggeration), only to find a flight had just left for our destination minutes ago (if we hadn't had to wait in line, we could have made the flight).

The beauty of many routes in Italy like you were flying is that a bus ride is possible and reasonable. In our case, coming from Florida to Ohio it would not have been in the cards, and thus our delay was almost a full day.

Buses can always run; flights cannot.

quote:

Just wanted to pass this along.

I doubt there is any reimbursement due, since it sounds like they provided food and got you alternate transport within two hours. However, make sure you are credited your frequent flier miles for the MXP-FLR flight. They do owe you that; I've collected it in a similar situation.

mhshaw,
God, what a nightmare! A similar situation happened to my traveling companion last October. He flew Alitalia, JFK into Milan, was supposed to connect to FLR, got on the plane and (without telling anyone) they landed in ROME! Got on a bus and it took them 7 HOURS to get to Florence. There were horrible accidents; for hours they sat along the highway not moving at all. He handled it as well as he could have. I would have started smoking again! I guess you have to take it all in stride and hope that is the last time anything like that happens to you.
I agree though, that the airlines should be respectful enough to let it's passengers know exactly what is going on and why.

(it's going to be a hot one for us here in Boston, finally a Memorial Day weekend we can enjoy)

Ciao, meow,
Pokey

Holy $*&^! I can't imagine how upset I would be. What is wrong with these people?? Do you think it's because they are so shell shocked or hardened by the uncertainty of their positions that they just don't care about customer service anymore? Was it always this way? How do they get away with it and not have to reimburse people? Landing in Rome instead of Florence (they must have been in a friggin roundabout) and then seven hours to Florence from Rome they should be responsible for some of the headache.

Ginger

I understand the outrage shown here, but this happens EVERY DAY on US airlines. And they don't work any harder to help one out, nor do they communicate any better.

I was just on a flight from Columbus to Detroit, to catch a Northwest flight to Amsterdam. We got to the gate, but they could not get the jetway to work and get it moved to connect the jetway to the aircraft. Thay made one annoucement, a "stay in your seats while we get this fixed, if we can" announcement. They made not one more announcement for the 45 minutes they worked to get the problem fixed ... not one message, announcement, or communication. The door just opened as if by a miracle, and the crew bade us a "have a nice day" as if nothing had happened.

These are not examples that are somehow limited to Alitalia, or Italian air service. And, we don't have the OPTION of being bused in most US cities. At least the traveler got there ... maybe later than expected ... but at least they got there, and got there the same day.

How can an airline (here or there) be held responsible for weather (safety) matters or car accidents on the autostrada that are out of their control? They can't, and it would be unfair and unreasonable to expect them to be.

Travel is a crap shoot. That's why a Slow Travel approach makes so much sense. In these cases, grab a panino and a cafe and talk to the person behind the bar ... a great opportunity to practice one's Italian and learn a few snippets about the country, culture, and its people.

A pet peeve of mine is being on a delayed or cancelled flight and hearing people who rarely travel just bitch and bitch and bitch about it ... as if they've personally been singled out for this torture ... when it's a normal occurance. It's OK for THEM to have a bad day, but I'd appreciate them not making it mine. I like to enjoy my journeys from start (leaving the house) to finish (returning to the house).

Reimburse obligations are set by EU transportation rules. I've posted the link in another thread here, you can study them to see if there is leeway. Rules for cancelled flights give the airline more leeway than rules for involuntary denied boarding (bumps/overbooking).

You can always ask, but it doesn't mean you get reimbursed. If you ask, make a specific request, like 5000 miles or 200 Euro; if you just make a vague open request you'll get a vague open response.

When this happened to me, it was due to a radar system failure at Linate which took down radar for Northern Italy for a couple hours. That is not the airlines fault, it lands in the realm of weather delays and acts of God, which are not considered grounds for reimbursement under the contract of carriage.

Since multiple flights were cancelled, it wasn't likely due to airline equipment problems. Find out the reason why- was it a strike, a radar system failure, weather related, or what? That determines whether reimbursement could be required. Even still, since they got you out of the airport within 2 hours I doubt they are required to provide anything more than what the did.

I just found another link to EU rules:
http://www.airsafe.com/complain/bumping.htm

quote:

There are three levels of compensation:

in the event of long delays (two hours or more, depending on the distance of the flight), passengers must in every case be offered free meals and refreshments plus two free telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or emails;
if the time of departure is deferred until the next day, passengers must also be offered hotel accommodation and transport between the airport and the place of accommodation;
when the delay is five hours or longer, passengers may opt for reimbursement of the full cost of the ticket together with, when relevant, a return flight to the first point of departure.

I meant all the airlines, not just Alitalia. Is customer service a thing of the past because they have no job security and many of the airlines are on the verge of collapsing? Are 1st class passengers in the same boat? What is remedy? Is there one? Are we at their mercy with no recourse? I do understand the "go with the flow" travel mentality, but what if it was an emergency and you had to get somewhere? I personally have not yet experienced any travel nightmare (not of my own doing) on this level, but I can tell you it would be very hard to be gracious and understanding when they so obviously could care less.

Ginger

Suncoast,
I've actually been finding customer service to be quite good on the airlines I fly. I'm sure it helps that I always approach them with a smile and a clear idea of what I'm going to ask, and I try to treat all the airline personnel the way I want to be treated. I see too many travellers with short fuses- they approach the situation with raised, demanding voices and naturally get a poor response. I've even had a number of Air France personnel go out of their way to politely help me, and that goes against all the stereotypes.

I think Marco and I have very similar attitudes. First, I prepare myself for anything that can go wrong, and when things go wrong, I just think how easy we have it. If I were taking a trip 150 years ago, and the wheel on the stage coach broke or there were too many passengers, I'd have to sit under a tree for a week to await the next coach. A 6 hour delay in an air conditioned airport with a food court or 14 hours with a voucher for a two star hotel is not enough reason to lose my balance or compromise my dignity.

So many responses- a few things:
This seemed to be unique to Alitalia during that time, at least as far as I could tell, Air France was taking off just fine at the gates near us.

Weather was just fine.

I'll have to figure out what time we departed MXP by bus. I think the flight was supposed to leave at 10:30 and we left by bus around noon or so.

Well I have had mixed customer service, but mostly good too. However, these two instances sound most callous and uncaring, and according to Marco it happens everyday here in the U.S. I think they've even made a reality T.V. show about the misery of airline travel. My point is that, most people save years to take a trip abroad, and they deserve to be treated with compassion and respect.

I understand that things can happen beyond the control of the airlines, but courtesy and communication can go along way to helping people cope. If they are going to Europe they have been traveling probably 12-15 hours with little to no sleep, now they've landed in the wrong city and have to cope with the language barrier, customs, trying to find out what to do, etc., etc. On my first trip I probably would have had a meltdown and cried my eyes out, now I would try to make the best of it.

The the answer to the question is that it really is the luck of the draw who you get to help you out in a bad spot. Someone who is conscientious and caring or someone who's... well not.

Ginger

It does seem odd to me that you can pay for a flight that turns into a bus ride, and you don't get reimbursed for it. I understand that the passenger got to his/her destination, but if I paid for a Concorde flight (if it still existed) and instead got put on a bus, it seems like I didn't get what I paid for.

quote:

and instead got put on a bus, it seems like I didn't get what I paid for.

From the
Alitalia General Conditions of Carriage:

quote:

If, due to circumstances beyond its control, carrier cancels or delays a flight, is unable to provide previously confirmed seat, fails to respect a stop over or a passenger's destination place, or causes the passenger to miss a connecting flight on which the passenger holds a reservation, carrier shall either:
a) carry the passenger on another of its scheduled flights on which a seat is available; or b) re-route the passenger to the destination indicated on the ticket or a portion thereof by its own scheduled service or the scheduled service of another carrier, or by surface transportation; or
c) refund the ticket.

So, surface transportation is acceptable under the terms. At that point, the terms for flight cancellation cover their obligations. Under that, the 2 hour rule applies to your arrival time, not departure time; so, MHShaw should check the arrival time, and if you wish to claim compensation, do so based on that, state it clearly quoting their contract in your letter; it looks like you might be eligible to 250 Euro. Note however, that the contract states that they don't owe anything if they

quote:

can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.

We booked our daughter and her husband on Alitalia through a code share with American. Never again. My daugher who is a size 4 said she barely fit in the seat. Her husband who is 6ft and muscular was totally miserable! Not only were the seats way too narrow they had no leg room.They noticed larger people had no choice but to put up the arm rests which made them encroach on the next persons seat. It makes you wonder how they get away with it.

The Alitalia coach seats, both on the 767's and 777's, are 1" narrower than the seats on Air France or the Delta 767; they are the same width as the DL 777's. They are 2/10th of an inch narrower than Northwest or the American Airlines 767s, and 1/2" narrower than KLM. The seat pitch (legroom) is the same as Air France. Alitalia legroom is the same or an inch longer than DL or American, and an inch longer than either NWA or KLM. So, overall the difference isn't much. Personally, I find the padding to be the same as DL, and much better than AF.

Here's a full comparison chart:
http://seatguru.com/charts/intl_economy.php

There is a lot to complain about with Alitalia, including broken sound systems, broken armrests, and service issues, but IMHO seat comfort is standard for transatlantic coach.

It is true our airlines do this to us every day and I have been there for some of them. Equipment failure, weather, radar and just plain "not enough fill the seats" cancellation. You can rant which puts the people behind the counter on the defensive or you can be pleasant and try to see what they can do for you. Many times, just by being nice, I got to move from Coach to First class.

Remember, FLR has had a lot of reconstruction and it could have been that a runway was closed IN FLR that caused the problems. Many times, even here, the weather looks great where you are leaving from but where you are going may not be good so they delay the flight to save fuel and avoid you sitting on the tarmac someplace OR circling to get to your destination.

This is also another reason why, when flying to Italy, I fly from the US to a major city like MXP or FCO and either train or drive from there. Hey, if the trains go on strike, I can rent a car.

Allora... I am a seasoned business traveler!! Ecco!

Doug