Apologies if this seems heartless, it is not intended to offend, and comes from a genuine request for information.
As I write, His Holiness, the Pope is gravely ill, and reports indicate he has received the last rites. If , as seems likely, he does not survive the next day or so, what is likely to happen in Rome and the Vatican.
I have a colleague who will be travelling to Rome on Monday, and would like to know if there are likely to be changes to Rome, /The Vatican in terms of e.g extra numbers of people to see a "Lying in State" ? , or large crowds going to St Peter's to pay respect. When would any likely funeral be held, and would the Vatican be "closed" to normal tourists.
Any help would be appreciated.
Tim
Posts: 830 | Location: Hampshire, UK | Registered: 28 March 2005
The Vatican would probably be closed to normal tourists, but the rest of the city will go on as usual. There will be crowds of priests, cardinals , bishops, nuns, and autorites from the political world.
I don't think the standard attractions will be closed.
Rome will be a very sad city when the Pope departs, but it will be a great historical event.
Originally posted by TimW: what is likely to happen in Rome and the Vatican.
Exactly what has happened in the last 2000 years when a Pope died. Nothing. As religion -any religion, for instance, always said, death is part of life and the least people will do is accepting it with sadness. But I would be surprized if anything else happen...
What's the process of electing a new Pope? How long does that take? Will the Vatican be closed until a new pope is elected? We're hoping to visit soon.
I was around at the time of the death of Polpe Paul VI in 1978. When it's time for the process, it will be explained widely in the media: basically the Cardinals will be in a Conclave, shut off from the outside in the Sistine Chapel; after each balloting, they burn the ballots in a way that there will be black smoke if no one has a sufficient majority, and white smoke when someone is elected. Pope Paul died on a Sunday and the funeral was the next Saturday. His successor was elected three weeks after Paul's death.
Between popes, I entered the Vatican area where one needs to give a reason to the Swiss Guards for entering, to go to the Vatican Pharmacy to fill a prescription. Also, special postage stamps are issued during the vacancy, so stamp collectors crowd the post office. So there would be some closings: the Sistine Chapel would of course be closed during the Conclave; I don't know about the rest of the museums.
We will be in Rome soon as well, and I have had the same concerns. I think it would be fascinating to be there during this huge historical moment, but I'm not prepared for the HUGE media attention it will no doubt attract. Of course I've read Angels and Demons -which has given me a lot of insight to this process (let's hope it's not nearly as disasterous as the plot in the book!). I'm actually kind of concerned that our hotel in Rome may deny our reservations (we're only spending 60 euros a night) for some higher-paying media people or something. Does anyone know if this will affect other churches in Italy? Would they possibly close to tourists out of respect maybe?
As I am also going to Rome 3 weeks from today, I am curious as well. I will be disappointed if we can't view the Sistine Chapel or the Vatican Museums, but it sounds like nothing else would be directly effected.
Regardless of your religious affiliation, or lack thereof, Pope John Paul II is a truly remarkable man, in his own right, and will be a irreplaceable loss to humanity.
Posts: 240 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 25 June 2004
Popes don't die that often; on average, every 71/2 years, and recently, they've been lasting somewhat longer, like the rest of us: so it's a historic occasion, and one that underscores how important it is to be flexible in one's travel planning. If I were in Italy now, even if I were living in Venice as I hope to do during my next stay, I'd scramble and get to Rome for the funeral and the conclave.
From a practical standpoint, others will surely be doing the same, including many, many people whose actual business it is to be there for the events. That means additional pressure on hotels and rental apartments. Many hotels have contingency contracts with media and church officials, that may force some cancellations, and trickle down the chain of lodging supply.
The Vatican will be extra crowded and busy for quite some time after the Santo Padre breathes his last. I've got a "Pope file" on my desk for a work project and here's some salient info:
After the pope dies, his corpse will be exposed for the "homage of the faithful" at St. Peter's for three days, and extensive funeral rites will be celebrated for nine days, beginning on the fourth, fifth, or sixth day after his death. The actual funeral is part of these rites, and it's reasonable to conclude JP will be interred at St. Peter's on the fifth or sixth day after his death.
The rules he set out for the selection of his successor seem to require that the Conclave must begin its work on the 15th day after his death. In extraordinary circumstances the conclave can begin as late as 20 days after his death.
The cardinals will meet in the Sistine Chapel to vote -- twice in the morning, twice in the evening. If, after about two weeks, no one wins a two-thirds majority, the cardinals can vote to change the rules and elect a man with fifty-percent-plus-one. Whoever is eventually elected will be installed a week or so later: JPII was installed six days after his election (and 24 days after JPI died.) So ... Rome will be the center of attention for three weeks to a month after the death of the pope.
Originally posted by cobblehill: So ... Rome will be the center of attention for three weeks to a month after the death of the pope.
Following the right color of smoke out of the chimney, how much time passes before the beginning of the public activites to seat a new Pope, and how long do those activities last?
Thanks!
Posts: 240 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 25 June 2004
Here is a Wikipedia article about the process, in which I gather JPII made some reforms. In the last two elections, within an hour of the appearance of the white smoke, the new pope's name was announced to the piazza and he appeared to give his first blessing. The installation (like a coronation) happened on a Sunday around a week after the election.
As others have said, the Sistine will be closed to visitors once the conclave commences. Aside from that, my Italian friends here in Rome tell me that nothing else will be impacted by the expected death of the pope. At this moment in Rome, everybody is going about their business and pleasure pretty much as usual.
Posts: 340 | Location: Santa Fe, NM | Registered: 28 July 2002
Originally posted by Andrew: I was around at the time of the death of Polpe Paul VI in 1978... Pope Paul died on a Sunday and the funeral was the next Saturday. His successor was elected three weeks after Paul's death.
Andrew, will there be a public viewing of the Pope's body at St. Peter's before he's buried in the basilica? If there is such an event, is it for one day or more? So Italy might not have an Official Mourning period, our Italian friends in Roma and Camogli believe with the death of THIS Pope, "the country will go into deep mourning and everything will shut down, at least for one official day."
This is truly a sad and difficult time for all Catholics. We will be in Rome in 14 days. Although our touring plans will change, I'm hoping to my children will be able to bear witness to a remarkable spiritual event and to be part of history.
Posts: 19 | Location: Boston | Registered: 23 March 2005
I agree that, despite the fact that it will be a very crowded and kind of sad time to be in Rome, it will nonetheless be a major historical event. Your children will no doubt remember it.
We are deeply affected by the Pope's state . It has slightly changed our plans. We will be staying at the Castiglione d'orcia. What would be the fastest route to Rome and how long will it take? We expect to be in this area on April 20th and 21st.By this time, we may be dealing more with the election of the new Pope.The plan is just a day trip to pay respect to his memory. How long will it take us to return to Bologna from Castiglione d"Orcia? Should we anticipate a lot of traffic to Bologna? Your site is just so helpful. I have recommended this site to a number of my traveller friends.
I will remember him as the Traveling Pope, a Pilgrim who's journeys promoted peace and understanding. He truely was a light and will be sorely missed in this world.
I was just there last Thursday and its sad to see that he has finally left us. He will be remembered as a great man who championed peace and tolerence for all. We will miss you John Paul II
Made my first trip to Italy in March 2005 and cant wait to go back.
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