Brava, Valerie. I can guess why he wants you to have a P.IVA...so he can deduct the expense of you! It's fattura fattura everywhere these days...and 20% IVA on top of whatever you charge.
Here in Venice there's an organization called ASCOM who assists folks in getting set up: it's a one stop shop for a yearly fee and they take care of everything, including patient explanations of confusing processes that are in fact similar to American ones...but not.
You'll just mail in your renewal permesso request, ask for the modulo at the post office. You'll be SMSed an appointment - no more waiting in line - and be able to keep track of everything online as well (of course, my renewal appointment came a year and a half after I submitted my renewal request).
Good luck with it all...I think you'll benefit highly from having your questura employee as a neighbor!
p.s. I would never report anyone, no matter how creepy, to the Guardia, though. You'll be branded as a tattle-tale and no one will ever talk to you again.
It's a whole new world out there! I loved your report, then happily spent oodles of time reading your others. The Haircut from Hades certainly resonated for me .. sometimes I've wanted to just hide for 3 months until it would grow out. Thank you for many hours of enjoyment.
Posts: 315 | Location: Queensland Australia | Registered: 25 December 2007
True that there are back doors in Italy and Valerie you did a great job on the article but I have to comment, especially about the garbage tax and the idea that many Italians figure that since you are foreigners you can get away with things.
The garbage tax is one of those taxes that will haunt you forever. The same situation happened to someone on my board, when they reapplied for their PdiS and re did their residency, the tax was sent again to the new address (since everything has a codice fiscale it is easy to follow people) and the late fees and fines ended up costing this person a lot of money (original bill was 1200 euro, they had to pay close to 5000 in the end). Many people say you can get away with things but they are normally people who do not do the job. I know of 2 Americans who have had their cars taken away from them because they played the tourist game and were caught driving without an Italian license after they had been residents for over a year.
I would fix the whole thing as soon as possible, if I were you.
Unless, of course, you prefer to write in the next months some interesting articles about people being fired with charges by the comune , and innocents abroad being shaked up down by authorities until due money will be collected. (multiplied by an amazing but not amusing factor as Cristina warns).
Btw internet has reached these shores and sometimes local authorities can read (in English too, how amazing)
Nan, thanks for the info. I'll have to see if there's a similar organization in this area. An we do need to get started on collecting the necessary info and documents to renew our permesso. The fattura you mentioned is exactly what the commercialista and Franco said was the motive for the guy wanting the IVA number.
Yvonne, I'm glad you're enjoying the articles! (And glad someone sympathizes with my bad haircuts )
Cristina, I know! Our friends think we're nuts to not "take advantage" of the situation, but they don't understand the ramifications and the possibility of screwing up our official status here. So we just amuse them with our "straight laced" behavior. We did report our new address for the garbage tax and are waiting for the wheels that turn out such things to forward it to us.
We've also been trying to pay for our parking permit, unsucessfully! The company that administers the resident parking permits said they'd send letters out at the beginning of the year for renewals. Nothing came. Bryan has gone to their office 3 times and they keep saying, "we'll get around to it, don't worry". So nobody has paid for permits for 7 months now! You'd think they'd want the income, but eventually it will get straightened out and I'm sure they'll charge us for 2 years to make up for the one they've piddled away!
I just wrote on my blog about renewing our permessi...or at least starting the process. Amazingly it was pretty simple...now we'll see how long it take for our appointment!
Even thought we're residents, live here full-time and consider this our home, we also still feel like we're guests in this country. Italy 'allows' us to live here, and it would seem downright disrespectful to blatantly ignore the rules, laws and taxes here.
When we first moved here we heard from others (expats) that "no one" paid the TV tax...yet here in San Venanzo, they were lined up out the door to pay the tax. I'm guessing that yes, some Italians do flaunt the law, do ignore the taxes, but the vast majority pay their taxes...maybe grudgingly, but they do pay....and so do we.
Valerie, I am sorry you have such a negative experience of our country. However I find it a bit unfair to compare an hydillic small-town Ohio with the whole way of life of a country like Italy. Then you would have to compare the whole American life with the whole Italian life.
Where I live nobody on the mountain has a security gate or if they have a gate it is most often open. The area where you live is definitely not representative of the country.
I also disagree with the fact that Italians do not like drop-in visitors. Italians do not like burglars. If people has security, this is not meant against innocent visitors.
I am sure people has security in many areas of the US, actually I understand that many people have guns. This does not exist here.
Making friends in a new country is difficult. The locals have their families, their life, their kids and jobs. You have more free time than them because you do not have your social structure. You do not know the ways and that's why you might find closed doors.
I have lived for prolonged periods in several foreign countries and every time I have experienced this sense of isolation. If you can hold on for a few years this will solve itself.
Taxes is a painful issue, but remember it is your choice and right to pay any tax you want. However if you happen to be overcharged or to pay the wrong tax it will take very long time if ever for you to get it back. For this reason people is careful rather than just go ahead and pay.
Yes, sometimes is simpler and tolerated to not to pay taxes for small amount of money like your translation fee. The cause of this is that everyone has experienced more than once the many and totally unjustifiable taxes we are subjected to in this country.
Everyone sees everyday in front of their eyes how our big guys waste the country resources and keep asking to pay more and more taxes. These often end in more luxury for the big guys and a progressively meager life for the rest of the people.
While our politicians have the highest salaries and pensions in Europe, our working class gets the worst wages in Europe.
So, it is not all about living illegaly for the sake of it. People has learned to react to the social unfaireness of our system. Mind you, I am not saying it is good not to pay taxes, far from me.
However there are social and historic reasons to widespread behaviors. So what's fair for you might not apply to others with a different history and culture.
One last thing: never listen to an Italian when they tell you "everybody" does this or that. Unfortunately we are a most individualistic society plagued by a cronic lack of information.
If someone tells you "nobody pays taxes" he is more likely talking about his cousin. If someone tells you "everybody pays taxes" he is still talking about his cousin. The truth is always somewhere in between and will be never clear.
I am sorry you have such a negative experience of our country.
I just have to defend Valerie and say that I did not read her essay (which, as always with Valerie's writing, I enjoyed immensely) as a negative experience. I saw it as amusingly descriptive of cultural differences between the US and Italy (and I loved her back-door metaphor). I think it must be pretty obvious to anyone who has followed Valerie's blog that she and Bryan love Italy. But just as with a beloved relative or friend, commenting on what seems to you like unusual behavior doesn't mean you have any less affection for them.
- Roz [Edited to fix typo]
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Roz,
I think it must be pretty obvious to anyone who has followed Valerie's blog that she and Bryan love Italy. But just as with a beloved relative or friend, commenting on what seems to you like unusual behavior doesn't mean you have any less affection for them
Originally posted by VeniceJ: I too did not get that Valerie was writing about a negative experience but giving an amusing description of cultural differences...
Apparently the reading of this is also affected by cultural differences. What Letizia took as a complaint was merely an observation.
Sometimes it's hard as an American, as a foreigner, to write about cultural differences without sounding like we're complaining or critisizing, but in this case I know that Valerie was just offering her observations on what's typical here, without meaning to imply that she and Bryan were offended, insulted or mad, or that such actions are typical of all Italians.
Interesting reactions from everyone. And certainly I can see both sides. As a property owner in Italy, I've had my share of issues with both the front and back doors of Italian Government dealings.
I was absolutely charmed into into paying a small fine for not having the proper building permits, by a handsome, Mussolini-like Forrester a few years ago. He clicked his heals, kissed my hand and apologized profusely for having to stop the building on my property. He made it very easy for me to pay my fine and stop the work.
And this was a result of a change in the law for "my side of the valley" by the "commune" (city gov.)...I asked some of the villagers if I was supposed to offer someone a bribe and they all said "no, of course not".
So, well, what does one do? Wait until the law changes again.............no big deal. I don't have a timeline for it.......it will happen when it does, eh?
)
