We are hoping to spend one night in Venice during our stay near Umbertide in Septmber. What is the most hassle-free way to make the trip? We will have a car although we are not keen to drive into Venice, unfamiliar territory to us. Advice please.
Posts: 55 | Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: 25 May 2004
Wrong website! This is a mad dash across hundreds of miles of Italy: ZoomTravel at its worst — and one night in Venice is setting yourself up for major disappointment.
Message received and understood. We will be spend two days in Assisi, then a week at Il Convento Mincione, between Lake Trasimeno and Umbertide, followed by a week in Rome. How would a Slow Traveller plan his/her time? Open to all suggestins...
Posts: 55 | Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: 25 May 2004
Some information still missing I think, but let's have a stab.
The missing information is whether 2 days Assisi 1 week W Umbria 1 week Rome is your whole trip; if so, are you proposing to ditch something? Or is this part of say a 5-week jaunt in which most of your time is still unaccounted for? Or do you have a "hole" of a single night between your digs at the Mincio and your digs in Rome?
If it's a 1- or 2-day hole to fill, it seems to me the obvious thing to do is head towards Rome and stay a night halfway: Orvieto is a simple choice, or (less popularly, but every bit as nice) Viterbo.
If you have more than 2 or 3 days, go to Venice by all means, quite different both from Umbria and from Rome: 4 or 5 days in Venice, or a week, will be satisfying (rather than 1 night, which would just be frustrating).
Our whole trip is 16 days. My question is how would you spend the 7 days that we have in the Umbertide region? I read some of your diary related to that area. Is it possible to do this trip without a car? How did you get from Fiumicino to Umbria?
Posts: 55 | Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: 25 May 2004
No, you can't practically do your trip without a car. The fault lies not with Umbertide, but with your rental unit, which is in the very isolated and tiny hamlet of Racchiusole: no train, no bus, and the barest of roads.
Airport to Umbertide is easy, a series of trains: read all about it.
As far as seeing Umbria, for a first or second time, the Umbertide area is not a good base. (Not good for Tuscany, either.) The main places conveniently nearby are Perugia and Cortona; the N shore of Lake Trasimeno is close by but it's not the lake's best side.
For most of what people think of as Umbria, though — Gubbio, Spello, Trevi, Bevagna, Montefalco, Spoleto, Norcia, the Valnerina, Orvieto, the usual suspects — you'll be spending a lot of time on the road. The area immediately around Umbertide is sparse in things to see, although I won't be proud of you if, having picked this place to stay in, you don't at least see the Badia di Montecorona; and I'll make an exception, in the Trasimeno area, for Corciano.
B
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bill Thayer,
Thanks. This is not our choice of accomodations. We will be attending a family wedding and will be guests for a week at The Old Convent. Having free accomodations gives us the opportunity to do a lot of sightseeing. We just want to maximize our time there.
Posts: 55 | Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: 25 May 2004
Theresa, My wife and I will be staying in the Umbertide area for most of September. Coincidentally we will be driving to Venice for a 4 day stay on September 2 if you'd like a ride. Otherwise please visit us in Montone for lunch or dinner and we'll give you a tour of this very pretty hill town which is an easy 15 minute drive from the center of Umbertide. Enjoy your trip.
Posts: 97 | Location: Chicago | Registered: 06 September 2002
Wow! What an offer. Unfortunately we don't arrive in Italy until Sept.15. We will be near Umbertide from Sept. 17-24. Will you still be there? How do we contact you?
Posts: 55 | Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: 25 May 2004
Teresa, our base is Umbertide. To be precise, Borgo di Montemigiano is about 2kms west of Nicconi on the way to Mercatale. We think Umbertide is a fine base. fairly large town with lots of "daily life" shopping. Not a tourist town at all. Easy access to the E45 for getting around Umbria. Easy access to Arezzo and Cortona via Mercatale. Our day trips tend to be to the same places every year: Gubbio, Assisi, Deruta, Todi, Panicale, Perugia, S. Casciano dei Bagni, Terni, Citta di Castello, Trevi, Orvieto, Arezzo, & Cortona.
Deborah Horn In a previous life I was an Umbrian sunflower farmer. I want to do a past life regression and stay there. ----------------------------------- www.petsburg.com My blog: Old Shoes - New Trip
Posts: 4996 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: 04 September 2001
>>The main places conveniently nearby are Perugia and Cortona<<
Bill, I would think that Umbertide is quite convenient for visiting the Sansepolcro/Anghiari/Monterchi area...the main road will deposit one there quite quickly. And Gubbio is pretty close also....
Thanks everyone - that's quite a list of places to see in just a week. I'd love it if you would prioritize for me. We will have already spent two days in Assisi and we will visit Orvieto on our way to Rome. Otherwise, tour guides, what have you got?
Posts: 55 | Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: 25 May 2004
I'm assuming that being in Nova Scocia and that you were contemplating a trip from Umbertide means you are used to driving long distances???? If so, then it's just as well because Umbertide isn't really close to many of the places already recomended by others so far.
Two days in Assisi is barely enough for Assisi itself, let alone Spello or Spoletto, so given another week at Umbertide, I'd resist the temptation for a two hour drive to either Florence or Siena (and then two hours back home again after trying to find parkling etc etc.) Save them for a later trip. Stick to Umbria for this trip. Gubbio is reasonably close, however while we found it exciting for the Crossbow Palio, it is a fairly bleak town. We enjoyed our stay, but I wouldn't hurry back.
Spello and Spoletto would be an hour and hour and 20 min. from Umbertide and worth a day trip. A day trip to Perugia pretty obvious. A day trip to Passignano on the northern shore of L. Trasimeno (despite Bills misgivings) and the ferry out to Isola Maggiore is something few others will have seen. If you really have to, you could then spend the afternoon at Cortona. Then again, as a foodie, I'd probably spend the morning at Castiglione del Lago, have either a picnic lunch in the park below the walls and near the "beach" or drive around to the restaurant in the Hotel at Castel Rigone (it's in the hills behind Passignano) and then the afternoon taking the ferry to Isola Maggiore.
I'd also consider a day trip down to Todi (an hour and a bit) or a day trip to Bevagna and Montefalco (also just over an hours drive).
"The 'perfect marriage' of food and wine should allow for infidelity" - Roy Andries de Groot Moderation in Moderation
Away from the board a coupla days and what an efflorescence of opinion!
To simplify things Theresa:
1. Since you're going to have to have a car (and yes, I haven't looked gift horses in the mouth either, and the Mincione looks very nice), you'll have the freedom of going anywhere you want.
2. Throw a dart at Italy, there's something beautiful and/or interesting. Absolutely any place at all, even the most remote, will be the center of a small circle, no more than 25 miles radius, or some other small, reasonable figure, full of enough stuff to keep the visitor entertained for a week or more. (Do see Pauline's Circles if you haven't already done so.) Umbertide, like every other place, is at the center of its own circle. Within it, there's hardly any point listing what's available: a map will do. Città di Castello, Montone, Anghiari, Sansepolcro, Gubbio, etc.: all worth seeing. Many other small places even closer, like S. Bartolomeo de' Fossi.
3. Most people, however, seem to insist on seeing The Sights, a sort of canonical list of what Other People Have Seen. Sometimes these places are richer in things to see, or more beautiful; sometimes not. Gubbio, for example, which I'd forgotten (in part because I'm a nondriver and by train it's not a natural trip from Umbertide, in part because I don't like the place), is on the Tourist List, and is definitely worth it. Monterchi is on the List too, and is not: the small village — not much more than a cluster of houses — is dismal, all 20c grey stucco and a very hokey rebuilding of a single medieval tower, with one single painting surrounded by audiovisuals and graphics that no one looks at, for the privilege of looking at which you pay 3E10.
4. With a car, the temptation inevitably occurs to most people to go running off to A Sight; rather as if, having a husband of one's own, one were to stalk Tom Cruise vel sim. (There are of course people who do such things; most of us don't think highly of it, and the waste of energy is similar.) I've done it too, I think every traveler has; but after a while we learn not to. Well within the physical ambit of Umbertide, once you have a car, Urbino, Siena, and Orvieto. (I pick this list because they're all at the same distance; 200km round-trip.) Just a bit more driving, and you have Ravenna, Lucca, Ancona and Ascoli; and where will we stop? How much driving do we want to do? Do we really want to spend all our time in a car? More to the point, places this far away -- sure, they can be "done" -- have less and less to do with our homebase: and when we've come back from our trip, we'll suddenly realize at some point, that although we were in place X, we really haven't the faintest idea where we were. In sum, the farther afield we go, chasing after sights, the less we will see, first because of the mechanics of getting there, and then because they'll all be out of context. Nothing to hang them on, and ten years from now, we won't even remember them.
To take a personal example. I'm a nondriver, so there've been places very difficult for me to get to, that some kind person — and I do mean kind — has schlepped me to in their car. Almost always such a car trip has had us stopping in accidental places, that had sights convenient to the car (also skipping by more interesting places not on the highway), and my memory of these trips is not as complete as my memory of more organic trips -- even though by now I've got to know one small part of Italy fairly well over the years, so I do have the context to hang these stray places on, and I keep careful notes; but for a first- or second-time visitor to an area, it doesn't work. An exception to the rule is if you design a careful trip to a number of places, some can even be quite far away, around a theme: thus the popularity of such things like the Piero della Francesca "trail". If you do your homework, you can design your own around whatever interests you: wine and vineyards, Roman remains, shoe outlets. Another exception applies to frequent travellers to one area. Deborah mentioned that, staying at a base near Umbertide, she regularly goes on daytrips to various places — repeating the same places rather often. That's not the same as a one-time visitor: she's built up a solid feel for these places over the years. Another example: almost all my knowledge of Rome has been gained from daytrips. Not one, not five, not twenty, but maybe fifty so far; where a single day trip to Rome in a lifetime would be insanity!
So, having your beautiful accommodations and a car, drive around; doesn't much matter where, the whole area is beautiful. The key is: not too far.
B
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bill Thayer,
This gives me much to ponder. Bill, I love your philosophy. I am a reforming "have-to-see-it-all" traveller. However, my husband's health is somewhat compromised and he just doesn't have the stamina, a blessing in disguise, one could say. So we will meet somewhere in the middle and try to capture the flavor rather than the sights.
Has anyone found Frommer's "Best-Loved Driving Tours" helpful? I'm also trying not to get bogged down with too many tour books.
Posts: 55 | Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: 25 May 2004
And just in case I come off sounding that ogosh, no I'd never do that....
For many years, captivated by some photos in a book, I'd wanted to see Chioggia, a small town about 15 miles S of Venice. This last trip, I finally did, spending about 36 hours there. By good fortune, I loved it -- it was my big outlier of the whole trip, and you'll notice that since I too was based in Umbertide, it's very similar to your idea of a daytrip to Venice. (The main difference is that there is far less to see in Chioggia than in Venice, and I gave myself two nights there.)
Anyway, while I was in Chioggia, loving it, I bumbled onto the tourist port where a regular schedule of boats takes people to Venice, about an hour away. I've never been to Venice.
I stood there for about 5 minutes, maybe I should hop over to Venice.... Sense won out. I didn't go. I still haven't seen Venice. When I see Venice, I'll spend two or three weeks there. All I would have done would be to feel rushed and return frustrated. Again, in an hour (a day, a week) we'll always see the same "amount" of stuff: an hour's (day's, week's) worth; what matters is the quality of the seeing.
But the temptation was there. When it passed, I laughed at myself for it; then went on visiting Chioggia and neighboring Sottomarina: which were one of the high points of my trip.
>>Monterchi is on the List too, and is not: the small village -- not much more than a cluster of houses -- is dismal, all 20c grey stucco and a very hokey rebuilding of a single medieval tower<<
I have nothing but respect for Bill Thayer and I marvel at his quite amazing (and idiosyncratic) style of travel...but I have to stand up (a little) for Monterchi and Piero della Francesca.
To my mind, Monterchi is a nice little village in a pretty setting that houses one of the most famous works of Piero della Francesca. I realize that Bill is not a fan of della Francesca--and I respect that--but there are those of us who are quite fond of the painter and of this painting.
So I hope that visitors to this extremely beautiful (and untouristed) corner of Tuscany will give the matter serious thought before bypassing Monterchi and the della Francesca "Madonna del Parto".....
Another good day trip would be to Montefalco and some of the Sagrantino wineries--Antonelli or Caprai. Great linens in Montefalco, too. There is so much that is close to you . Don't use too much time just getting from place to place. jan
I'm just back from a stay at my family's house in Umbertide; Bill Thayer stayed in our house. This discussion about what to do is useful; as far as getting from Fiumicino to Umbria, I know that Bill favors trains, but there's also the option of taking the SULGA bus; here's their schedule page. Theresa, if I'm reading right you'd be going from Fiumicino to Assisi; SULGA has a daily bus direct from the airport leaving at 12.30, arriving at 16.45. They don't show any buses from Fiumicino to Umbertide; possibly it can be done because their bus goes to Stazione Tiburtina in Rome where you can get a bus to Umbertide. Also you can take an every-15-minute train to Tiburtina and catch the bus to Umbertide at 4 p.m. If you want to take the train from the airport to Assisi, on the Trenitalia site you can search a trip by entering your trip from Roma Aeroporto to Assisi.
I know about that bus to Assisi and that would have been our first choice. However our flight doesn't arrive until 12:30. Too bad. I hate the thought of trying to sort out the trains after an all-night flight but - alas - I don't see any way around it. My only other thought was to hire a shuttle for the trip into Rome and try to catch up with the bus or grab a train.
Posts: 55 | Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: 25 May 2004
With appologies to Bill Thayer, my family and I have spent our past two trips in the Umbertide area and found it to meet our needs nicely. We have seen many of the noted hill towns in the area and while perhaps we did more driving the Bill would find acceptable, the area is beautiful and less touristed than many. While Bill speaks from the standpoint of someone who has taken many, many, trips to Italy (and presumably plans many more) you may not have the luxury of returning in the near future and in that case, by all means go to Venice!! My recomendation is to drive to Fusina, just south of Venice where there is plenty of parking right next to the ferry stop and take the boat from there. Arriving in Venice from the water the first time is magical and get a room on the zattere, right in front of the boat landing. Leave Umbertide early and plan on getting home late but you will get at least a taste of one of my very favorite places.
Posts: 298 | Location: falmouth , MA USA | Registered: 09 December 2003
Popeye - I couldn't find Fusina on the map. Is it near Chioggia? Can you recommend a hotel on the Zattere? Have you made the drive from Umbria to Venice? ViaMichelin shows the route through Ravenna and along the coast but I have read in another thread that that is not a recommended route.
Posts: 55 | Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: 25 May 2004