NEWS. It's always the same old story: every year, during New Year's Eve celebrations, St. Mark's Square becomes a war zone thanks to the usual carelessness of individuals who are dazed by continual libations. This year, 15,000 people were in the Square, most of them tourists, and they left behind several hundred pounds of broken glass bottles on the ground. The prohibitions, obviously, exist, but there isn't anybody who enforces them. In the opinion of a majority of Venetians, the situation requires more policemen who would check the contents of tote bags and knapsacks, just as they do at the entrances of stadiums. In addition, leaflets would be distributed in all the hotels to ensure that visitors know about the restrictions.
"Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza..."
"I sing to life, to its beauty, to each of its wounds and each of its caresses..."
Posts: 1831 | Location: New York, New York | Registered: 21 December 2002
Alas, it is not only in Venice, and not only on New Year's Eve. Florence has become one huge garbage can at the height of the tourist season. Every day streets are full of the garbage left by visitors: empty plastic bottles, drink cans, plastic bags, food wrapings. At night the city cleans the streets and a couple of hours into the morning all street garbage cans are full to refuse and with refuse, and garbage is strewn everywhere.
Disgusting.
Posts: 5897 | Location: Toronto | Registered: 26 May 2002
Well that basically describes any major city after a New Years Eve party. You couldn't even walk through Vienna last year on January 1 until about 5 pm, or you'd literally be crunching broken glass the entire time.
-- E non pur io qui piango ex-bolognese; anzi n'è questo loco tanto pieno, che tante lingue non son ora apprese
Afraid it is the same anywhere in the world where a large group gets together to party...and I have to admit when I was younger I would have been out there with the best of them.........
That is no big deal and seems tame to Saint Patrick's Day in New York City. A day to many people think is a day to get totally drunk and then vomit or do #1 or do both in the streets of New York City.
Bill
Posts: 460 | Location: East Elmhurst, NYC, USA | Registered: 12 September 2003
quote:Originally posted by Doru: Alas, it is not only in Venice, and not only on New Year's Eve.
Yep. I was in Pistoia for New year's Eve and, despite the fact that there was no more than 4000 people, the floor of the piazza was covered with paper glasses, empty bottles and the cases of the many explosives used during the night. In the morning, everything was clean and some people commented "It's not that the square has been cleaned during the night: the people didn't leave dirt behind". let me say, that woman shold have been in the square at 12:05! On the opther hand, I remember beeing part of a big demonstration in Florence over one year ago: in the area where the march ended (near the stadium), all the garbage cans were overfilled, but most people tried to put the junk in neat heaps under them, and not strew it around. This does not mean that activists are better mannered than the other poeple, neither that everyone acted tha same way (and a few bad mannered people can do a lot of damage!), but there is probably something that is connected with the attitude of partying people in this leaving junk all over the place. If you are out to party, than you don't want to bother with keeping the place clean: it distracts you from having fun. So people at large street parties leave the trash all over the place because they don't want to stop partying and find out where to leave youtr trash. Actually, Luca and I had brought our small bottle of soumante and two paper glasses. After drinking we put everything back in the same bag we had used to bring them and brought the junk home, but we are the strange guys ^____^
Alice Twain -- I don’t want to take what you can’t give / I would rather starve than eat your bread I would rather run but I can’t walk / Guess I’ll lie alone just like before Pearl Jam, Corduroy
quote:Originally posted by Alice Twain: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Doru: Alas, it is not only in Venice, and not only on New Year's Eve.
quote: ...(and a few bad mannered people can do a lot of damage!), but there is probably something that is connected with the attitude of partying people in this leaving junk all over the place. If you are out to party, than you don't want to bother with keeping the place clean: it distracts you from having fun. So people at large street parties leave the trash all over the place because they don't want to stop partying and find out where to leave your trash.
Having fun is one thing and being an alcoholic is another. This New Year's Eve I went to a cruise thinking that I was going to have a good time like I did many years ago. Guess what? The ship was full of alcoholics making a fool of themselves, including a large number of women and the security people had to spend the entire 3 hours trying to control them. It was so disgusting. The bartender got to the point to refuse to serve more liquor to certain people and there was almost a riot. If it wasn't because there was a large number of security people, the entire affair could end up like P. San Marco or anywhere else after New Year's Eve.
quote: Actually, Luca and I had brought our small bottle of spumante and two paper glasses. After drinking we put everything back in the same bag we had used to bring them and brought the junk home, but we are the strange guys
Not strange but normal. Unfortunately, the world is now full of drunkards. And they think is funny...
"Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza..."
"I sing to life, to its beauty, to each of its wounds and each of its caresses..."
Posts: 1831 | Location: New York, New York | Registered: 21 December 2002
I've been in St. Mark's on NYE. While there were definitely people drinking, I did not get the impression that they were drunk - only that they were having fun. If you removed the prosecco from the party it would be a boring one indeed.
I've seen a lot more drunkenness during Carnivale, mostly Venetians (who drink more than other Italians in general, I believe.) Carnivale seems to be an excuse to get totally obliterated.
quote:Originally posted by Shannon: I've been in St. Mark's on NYE. While there were definitely people drinking, I did not get the impression that they were drunk - only that they were having fun. If you removed the prosecco from the party it would be a boring one indeed.
"Having fun" is what the drunkards say when they cannot even remember their names.
quote: I've seen a lot more drunkenness during Carnivale, mostly Venetians (who drink more than other Italians in general, I believe.) Carnivale seems to be an excuse to get totally obliterated.
I don't know where you go for Carnivale, but the drunken subjects I've seen on the streets, no matter what time, are usually the young weekenders. The Venetians usually hold parties in their houses and have fun with their close friends. And in the Ballos in the Palazzos, I have seen only one woman getting drunk (she was from the UK) and a man (from the USA) behaving like an idiot until the wife, embarrassed to death, took him home
"Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza..."
"I sing to life, to its beauty, to each of its wounds and each of its caresses..."
Posts: 1831 | Location: New York, New York | Registered: 21 December 2002
I go to Miami Beach every year for new years and have never found it to be dirty on new years eve or new years day. not even on ocean drive, which they close down completely to traffic for two days.
The only area I would say was dirty was a tiny park on Washington Avenue where a good deal of kids camped out (with campers and tents) for the 4 days of Phish concerts in Miami.
New York is another story, which is part of the reason i leave every year. and St. Patricks day on the upper east side, uugh. What a mess.
Actually, I've noticed that demonstrators are as a rule much cleaner than partygoers: whatever their specific aim, they're seeking to convince people they have a point and are good citizens. In my years as peace marshal of various demonstrations now so long ago, I remember this point being drilled into us: keep the place as clean as you can.
No such concerns to them that want to let it all hang out, their trousers, their bras, and the contents of their stomachs. Humanity not at our best in these things. A shame though that this should happen in the Piazza S. Marco -- I mean, who cares if it happens to some ugly boxy square in Cleveland or San Diego?
quote:Originally posted by Westsider: Having fun is one thing and being an alcoholic is another.
Drinking a couple glasses ow wine does not mean being alcolic neither being drunk (unless you have a problem digesting alchool like me). And here we are not talking about drunk people, we are talking about bad-mannered people. I am not saying that there were absolutely no drunk people in Pistoia that night, but certainly most people who were there were meither drunk nor alcoolics. not even getting _occasionally_ drunk will make a person an alchoolic. Besides, what does "drunk" mean? There are many degrees of it: from mild lightheaded and happy feeling to completely messed up and with no connection to reality. I don't know over there, here most people will stop at the happy feeling, because that's the syntom of having drunk enough.
Alice Twain -- I don’t want to take what you can’t give / I would rather starve than eat your bread I would rather run but I can’t walk / Guess I’ll lie alone just like before Pearl Jam, Corduroy
I've attended Queen's Day in Amsterdam. Over a million people come to Amsterdam to celebrate. But they prepare for it. They actually remove the trash cans before the celebration. I never figured out exactly why. They also sell beer in the can (not bottles) all over. So what is a person to do but litter. It felt so strange to throw a can on the street. But the next morning I understood why. They have these very cool street sweepers that can be driven around which pick up litter. By 8:30am the next day, the squares and streets were clean! It sounds like Pistola has a similar system. Unfortunately, you can't have something exactly like that in Venice but there is something to be said about expecting it to happen and having a system to deal with it instead.
Posts: 7444 | Location: Edmonds, WA | Registered: 25 October 2001
quote:Originally posted by Alice Twain: ...Drinking a couple glasses ow wine does not mean being alcolic neither being drunk (unless you have a problem digesting alchool like me). And here we are not talking about drunk people, we are talking about bad-mannered people. I am not saying that there were absolutely no drunk people in Pistoia that night, but certainly most people who were there were meither drunk nor alcoolics.
Maybe the people in Pistoia didn't drink more than they could handle. Let's not close our eyes to what is obvious. How do we know that the people who behaves the way we are talking about have had not only two glasses of wine but have been drinking all day and keep doing so no matter if it is an Old of New Year? Italians drink wine with their meals but I don't think they go out afterwards and start littering the streets. If people drink more than they can handle, but still keep doing it, to me they have a drinking problem, period. Reason why I have some strong opinions about this drinking topic is because I've seen many sad cases of people that have lost their jobs, homes and families because nobody took seriously their affection for the bottle. Like you, I can't tolerate alcohol. But even if I could, just to look at a person changing her/his personality after few drinks, turns me off.
"Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza..."
"I sing to life, to its beauty, to each of its wounds and each of its caresses..."
Posts: 1831 | Location: New York, New York | Registered: 21 December 2002
I still don't see what the big deal is, these things are going to happen!! Regarding what Venetians, lets face it the entire city makes a living off tourist, so complaining about tourist behavier is biting the hand that feeds you. Might add that while I find Venice be beautiful it seems to me like an adult Disneyland....which is why I like almost everywhere else in Italy more. Nationalities don't matter (ok, maybe the Swiss), some people will misbehave some of the time and you might as well make the best of it...and if possible find the humor in it.
quote:Originally posted by Marta: ... But the next morning I understood why. They have these very cool street sweepers that can be driven around which pick up litter. By 8:30am the next day, the squares and streets were clean! It sounds like Pistola has a similar system. Unfortunately, you can't have something exactly like that in Venice but there is something to be said about expecting it to happen and having a system to deal with it instead.
Maybe soon Venice will be able to handle this rubbish/garbage situation that's causing too much trouble. And we will have to pay for it, no matter if you are not one of the "ill-mannered" tourists Read about it:
NEWS. The accounts don't balance in Venice. The number of 165 euro tickets that every tourist bus has to buy before entering Venice has decreased by 20%. Part of the reason is that last year was a difficult one for tourism, but the primary cause was that tourists arrived in Venice by train or local public transport from neighbouring cities, rather than by bus. The problem is that bus ticket revenues no longer cover the cost of collecting tourist-generated rubbish, and that means that the municipality will be obliged to find alternative sources of revenue. The administration is considering a plan that would require minibuses to buy a bus ticket, as well.
"Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza..."
"I sing to life, to its beauty, to each of its wounds and each of its caresses..."
Posts: 1831 | Location: New York, New York | Registered: 21 December 2002
Um, it's New Year's Eve, right? People get drunk on New Year's Eve. They do so all over the world, and they've done it for millenia.
People getting drunk, acting like idiots, littering, throwing up, drinking "more than they can handle," etc, should really not be surprising to anyone.
Posts: 291 | Location: Takoma Park, Maryland, USA | Registered: 09 October 2003
quote:Originally posted by Westsider: How do we know that the people who behaves the way we are talking about have had not only two glasses of wine but have been drinking all day and keep doing so no matter if it is an Old of New Year?
How about smelling them? ^_^ Someone who has drunk more than he could handle usually smells like... Someone who drank too much! Besides, two glasses are not a rule: different people react differently to wine. My fahter can drink a full bottle of wine before getting even mildly drunk (not that he drinks as much every day!), I can't drink more than a few sips (and I get sick if I do).
quote:Italians drink wine with their meals but I don't think they go out afterwards and start littering the streets.
Drinking wine with the meals has more to do with nutrition than with alchool consumption. Wine is a food rich in precious nutrients (and as such is treated by nutritionists). And drinking wine with the meal does not usually lead to any even mild drunkess, also because food makes it easier to digest alchool. The pint in littering the streets is that it is often done by people who are perfectly focused. It is not caused by drinking but by partying. Wine has a part in the loss of inhibition connected to having fun, but it is not the only cause of it. People lose their restraints because they are having fun even though they did not drink or take any other drug. It is out of the need we all have, as human beings, to lose the inhibitions from time to time, and fuelled by "endorfine". Thei state of excitation and of temporary iresponsability is needed by our own mind. You can get it out of drugs (alchool, marijuana, etc.) or simply by being in a mass of people having fun and doing crazy things.
quote:Reason why I have some strong opinions about this drinking topic is because I've seen many sad cases of people that have lost their jobs, homes and families because nobody took seriously their affection for the bottle.
Well, my grandad was an alchoolic. This is why I can recognize someone who is mildly drunk, completely drunk, occasionally gets mildly drunk or drinks out of habit. And I would drink more than I do, since I like good wine a lot, if I just could.
Alice Twain -- I don’t want to take what you can’t give / I would rather starve than eat your bread I would rather run but I can’t walk / Guess I’ll lie alone just like before Pearl Jam, Corduroy
Shannon, if you will tell me where San Diego's skid row is, I'll come find you and bring a bottle of Prosecco for us to share next time I'm there!
Deborah Horn
In a previous life I was an Umbrian sunflower farmer. I'd like to do a past life regression and stay there. ----------------------------------- www.petsburg.com
Posts: 5000 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: 04 September 2001
quote:Originally posted by Livinwell: Shannon, if you will tell me where San Diego's skid row is, I'll come find you and bring a bottle of Prosecco for us to share next time I'm there! I do have to say that the ugliest (and smelliest) thing I've ever seen is Bourbon Street on a Sunday morning. But then, I never was much of a New Orleans fan. It is about the last place in the US I'd choose to go for fun.
Deborah Horn
_In a previous life I was an Umbrian sunflower farmer. I'd like to do a past life regression and stay there._ ----------------------------------- http://www.petsburg.com
Deborah Horn
In a previous life I was an Umbrian sunflower farmer. I'd like to do a past life regression and stay there. ----------------------------------- www.petsburg.com
Posts: 5000 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: 04 September 2001
Topic Closed
Read about it: